Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

FTR North Dakota sounds kind of awful. Especially for women. This video from here.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

*promote

Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Friday, March 29th, 2013 4:25pm PDT - promote requested by original submitter dag.

A right wing think tank (funded by the Kochs, naturally) recently ranked the states in order of 'freedom' and North Dakota came out on top. Reproductive rights were not factored in, unsurprisingly. I get the feeling the main factor the Kochs use to determine which state is more free is the speed in which they will bend over for multi-national corporations.

Wait I'm confused can someone tell me.

When they said 39% of "Deaths" are caused by abortions. Were they referring to the fact that every time someone had an abortion you were killing a fetus??

yes. that is what they were saying. So they were making a big stretch there.

Yes, I wonder what their definition is.

A quick google reveals that some 2.5mil died in 2010 in the US. Almost 600,000 were heart disease, and almost another 600,000 were cancer. Abortion does not feature in their top 15 causes of death. The same source (The CDC) reports some 750,000 abortions in 2009. So yah. If you think all abortions=murder then you may as well call abortion a leading cause of death!

Anyway, since we're playing fast and loose with what constitutes a death these are the leading causes of death for 2011.
Cancer: 0.000000000001%
Heart Disease: 0.000000000001%
Abortion: 0.0000000000011%
Having a period: 0.00000001%
Sex: 2.7%%
Sex with contraception: 23.1%
Men wanking into a tissue: The rest%

ps. These stats may be entirely fictional.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Every sperm is sacred!

Holy fuck, I want to punch that guy in the face.

*length=7:45 I admire her conviction in the face of insane adversity

The duration of this video has been updated from unknown to 7:45 - length declared by PlayhousePals.

I'm pro choice, but to me she was saying, "hey, i just kill fetuses - don't get all philosophical on me here." It was a bit much.

Might be worth pointing out that of those 784,000 abortions in 2009, 91% were at or before 13 weeks gestation. 64% were at or before 8 weeks, you know, when its about the size of your thumbnail. MURDER! There were 12 (legal) abortion related deaths in 2008. Not bad considering the WHO reckons that 68,000 women die a year around the world due to unsafe abortions.

Even if we accept the premise that all abortions should be counted as deaths then they still had to estimate a pretty large number of unreported/unsafe abortions to arrive at that 39%. I couldn't find an estimate for illegal abortions and I'm not sure it matters. If there really are another 750,000ish abortions going unreported, probably illegally and probably not safe then it seems to only emphasise the need for woman to have better access to safe, legal abortions.

And yes, avoid the philosophy because we can/have debated that until we are/were blue. The easy argument is that making abortion illegal has no impact on the number of abortions, it simply results in the suffering of women. The people who seem to have a problem with this are grey impaired and honestly are far too entrenched in their little world of absolutes to waste breath on.

There are things that are not accepted by all but that just have to be tolerated as the alternatives are way worse. On abortion that means providing access to safe abortion cause if you don't, theyäll happen anyway.. And what then.. when a mother dies from illegal abortion, doesn't that mean we lost two lives instead of one. Personally don't consider fetus living, i'm teetering on whther it's the amount of brain capacity, heart pumping or is it simply the point when a child can be brought out of womb and it has some level of survivability, i don't know. That is not the point.

One things that is not discussed here is THE point of her talk: prevent the unwanted pregnancies in the first place. That doesn't mean abstinence but condoms, pills, counseling, info and abstinence (i do believe that not all youngsters should be having sex, abstinence is the BEST choice for those early year, no doubt in that. But instead of giving all single people, young, old or between, only ONE choice, and if that fails you have failed your life, why not give them access to the second best and so on.. Religion....

Keep religion out of this and just look at things in neutral manner. Some don't like gay sex but have no problem with gay marriage, just like some don't like carrots but have no problem other eating it.Banning either will not make them go away, if carrots were made illegal, people would still eat and grow them. So get out of that shell and try to look the big picture, ten try to look at things from the perspective of people who are actually going thru with it (most pro-lifers never had to do abortion, they have no clue on what's going on that persons head who makes such a choice; they have zero sympathy and are essentially sociopaths when dealing with this issue. No understanding, no caring, just pure judgement..

Plus human society has changed, we live healthier lives and longer so it only makes sense to have some variety when people want to procreate. The best possible time, place, resources, partner.. when all that falls in place wouldn't you think that is the best time to bring new people in? Not when your time is spent trying to gather those things, having a kid then might just slow that progress to a halt and we have yet another generation living in poverty and diminished options in life (we are talking USA here, where you have very limited social mobility, basically the more equal society, the less there are reasons for abortions... Most abortion occur simply because the mother can not provide a good life to a new human. More equal societies tend to take care of the societys main building blocks a lot better.

If every fetus is a person, and many early pregnancies naturally miscarry then why aren't the pro lifers campaigning for medical research into saving these babies as well?

Seems like there is a huge element of "wanting to blame" going on here.

HAH I love how when she disagrees that abortion is not the leading cause of death, the "reporter" looks back at the screen and you can tell he's thinking, "but..but...the screen on the wall says so!" I got a kick out of how the "reporter" was trying to get her to debate and make false equivalencies.

She pretty much summed it up very well. Abortion is not good or bad. It just is. It would cause more harm to make it illegal and we'd have that much more people in poverty because people would be forced to have a kid they can't provide for. It is also discriminatory, because you known damned well that if a rich woman wanted an abortion, she'd just wave some money around and have it done anyway without getting caught.

Simplistic and narrow minded "morality" fails in the face of actual knowledge.

who cares. this planet is full enough. We don't want more unwanted children. Seriously take responsibility. Get your animals spaded and neutered.

cause it wasn't the time for that. She just wanted to state a few facts about what she does and what she stands for. There are countless websites and tv interviews if you want that.

protip: google.com

LOL #1 cause of death is abortion..

Would someone please ask him if he's worried about being aborted anytime in the future..

Up here in Canada our laws on abortion are the dream of everyone pro-choice, at least in theory. That is to say, we have absolutely no laws against abortion in any way, shape or form. In practice, we are starting to hear complaints from women's rights groups. Sex selective abortion is starting to become a concern to them and they aren't quite sure what to do about it.

Call me a right wing fanatic, but I disagree with my country's position on this. The reality is, our laws make abortion at 8 months and 3 weeks completely legal. Our laws also list it as murder to terminate that same infant at that same time should they have been born 2 weeks early and were no longer in the womb at 8 months and 3 weeks.

I guess my point is the insistence from the pro-choice side that this is a simple matter that demands choice be allowed for the good of all is flatly false. I really do believe the debate needs to center on when life begins, and talking around not liking the implications or resulting difficulties is just so much emotional bullying.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Because miscarriages are part of God's plan.

I don't know why I cant get this to play.
If I copy the flash location:
http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f9?isVid=1&isUI=1
I get this: http://i.imgur.com/kHGzMWM.jpg

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Try it from this page: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/29/the-one-woman-screwing-up-north-dakota-s-plan-to-end-abortion.html

if there was a line, that would cross it for me. aborting a fetus merely because it isn't the sex you wanted is pretty despicable IMO

but yeah, how would you legislate against that? I would think it would be an invasion of privacy. Hate to say it but even in a shitty situation like that, gov't should keep out of it.

I agree, an abortion that late into a pregnancy is unethical as well. The problem is, the question of when life begins is a question for scholars or at the very least people far smarter than a bunch of armchair commentators on the internet.

I work in a hospital. I've seen a baby born at 22 weeks. That's been my line since I've actually seen the baby survive. Will all babies survive at 22 weeks? Probably not. Most don't, but as I said it's what I've actually seen. Seeing is believing.

Either way I don't have a vagina and won't be needing her services anytime soon. Shit tho 39%, I need to watch my back.

As someone with a heart beat and as a former fetus I endorse North Dakota's new abortion laws.

I think to be fair, we have to remember that upwards of 20% of all conceptions (depending on age group) result in spontaneous abortion (aka miscarriage). So we should probably add God to the list of those responsible for the death of all of these fetuses.

Was he trying to argue that fetuses have the right to defend themselves with firearms?

Look, these anti abortion crazies are just like the mullahs, mufti and Taliban in the mid east. Exact same types of people, same motivation, same stupid ideas. It's just we have a better immune response to them over here.

In what sense exactly, in that they disagree with you on something?

Abortion isn't simply a yes/no type of black and white issue. Not many pro-life folks are the every sperm is sacred, bomb a clinic type. Not many pro-choice folks support ultra late term abortions or abortion as birth control or based on the child's gender.

Trying to turn the debate into a simplistic with us or against cause puts you on the nutter side IMHO.

The philosophical debate is a separate discussion that takes up A LOT of time and doesn't really go anywhere, other than people getting upset at the fanciful opinions posited as fact. For example the opinion that life begins when God wrote your name in the book of life is a valid Christian response to how they came up with those figures. Well, if God already knew you before you're born, that creates a metaphysical possibility for a largely biological problem.

That's what the pro-lifers will trap you into ultimately. How the fuck do you debate that without either throwing out objectivity or offending someone with your objectivity? Please. These debates are mostly a waste of our fucking time. Thank her for not wasting more of our time.