*quality *doublepromote

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by gwiz665.

Double-Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Wednesday, November 9th, 2011 10:17am PST - doublepromote requested by gwiz665.

yeah, great..celebrate someones alcoholism. Now I like Christopher Hitchens, don't get me wrong..but he was clearly an alcoholic, and it probably contributed to his cancer. So they're celebrating him with what is killing him.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/christopher-hitchens-alcohol-cigarettes-contributed-esophageal-cancer-diagnosis/story?id=110
68126

Even Bill Maher called him out on his drinking:



Instead of this insensitive gesture, pray for Chris, that God would have mercy on his soul.

"I always knew there was a risk in the bohemian lifestyle... I decided to take it because it helped my concentration, it stopped me being bored – it stopped other people being boring. It would make me want to prolong the conversation and enhance the moment. If you ask: would I do it again? I would probably say yes. But I would have quit earlier hoping to get away with the whole thing. I decided all of life is a wager and I'm going to wager on this bit... In a strange way I don't regret it. It's just impossible for me to picture life without wine, and other things, fueling the company, keeping me reading, energising me. It worked for me. It really did." - Christopher Hitchens

http://www.egetgoing.com/drug_addiction/rationalization.asp

>> ^hpqp:
"I always knew there was a risk in the bohemian lifestyle... I decided to take it because it helped my concentration, it stopped me being bored – it stopped other people being boring. It would make me want to prolong the conversation and enhance the moment. If you ask: would I do it again? I would probably say yes. But I would have quit earlier hoping to get away with the whole thing. I decided all of life is a wager and I'm going to wager on this bit... In a strange way I don't regret it. It's just impossible for me to picture life without wine, and other things, fueling the company, keeping me reading, energising me. It worked for me. It really did." - Christopher Hitchens

One need not raise a glass of alcohol to toast one of the greatest minds of many generations.

For speaking so very eloquently and with undeniable reason and logic against the idiocy, bigotry, zealotry and flat out ignorance of people like shinyblurry...

For renewing my vigor to speak my mind when confronted with that same idiocy, bigotry, zealotry and flat out ignorance as much as I can...

Here's to you Hitchens. We need more of you, not less.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_blind_leading_the_blind

>> ^SpaceGirlSpiff:
One need not raise a glass of alcohol to toast one of the greatest minds of many generations.
For speaking so very eloquently and with undeniable reason and logic against the idiocy, bigotry, zealotry and flat out ignorance of people like shinyblurry...
For renewing my vigor to speak my mind when confronted with that same idiocy, bigotry, zealotry and flat out ignorance as much as I can...
Here's to you Hitchens. We need more of you, not less.

Wow... a religious zealot attempting to call someone else on "rationalization"...

I've now been witness to a new level of hypocrisy.

>> ^shinyblurry:

http://www.egetgoing.com/drug_addiction/rationalization.asp
>> ^hpqp:
"I always knew there was a risk in the bohemian lifestyle... I decided to take it because it helped my concentration, it stopped me being bored – it stopped other people being boring. It would make me want to prolong the conversation and enhance the moment. If you ask: would I do it again? I would probably say yes. But I would have quit earlier hoping to get away with the whole thing. I decided all of life is a wager and I'm going to wager on this bit... In a strange way I don't regret it. It's just impossible for me to picture life without wine, and other things, fueling the company, keeping me reading, energising me. It worked for me. It really did." - Christopher Hitchens

You're so smart, shiny... Ooh, wait! I can play too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Faith

lol... blind leading the blind... /rolls eyes

>> ^shinyblurry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_blind_leading_the_blind
>> ^SpaceGirlSpiff:
One need not raise a glass of alcohol to toast one of the greatest minds of many generations.
For speaking so very eloquently and with undeniable reason and logic against the idiocy, bigotry, zealotry and flat out ignorance of people like shinyblurry...
For renewing my vigor to speak my mind when confronted with that same idiocy, bigotry, zealotry and flat out ignorance as much as I can...
Here's to you Hitchens. We need more of you, not less.

Hey Shinyidiot, you can say what you want about Hitchens (after all, he does spend his time ridiculing the idiocy of you and your ilk), but goddamnit, leave the scotch out of it!!

Alcohol: invented by smart people to make living in a world of morons tolerable.

My favorite cartoon of God.

Wow... whether on purpose or not, that reference to Shiny's blind adherence to idiocy coupled with Clapton being god makes you my new hero.
>> ^SpaceGirlSpiff:

You're so smart, shiny... Ooh, wait! I can play too!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Faith
lol... blind leading the blind... /rolls eyes
>> ^shinyblurry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_blind_leading_the_blind
>> ^SpaceGirlSpiff:
One need not raise a glass of alcohol to toast one of the greatest minds of many generations.
For speaking so very eloquently and with undeniable reason and logic against the idiocy, bigotry, zealotry and flat out ignorance of people like shinyblurry...
For renewing my vigor to speak my mind when confronted with that same idiocy, bigotry, zealotry and flat out ignorance as much as I can...
Here's to you Hitchens. We need more of you, not less.

Cheers to you hitch. The rational world sends respect and admiration.

*dead

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Added alternate embed code for this video - backup requested by luxury_pie.

Gah, invocation-fail.
Cheers Mr. Hitchens. And cheers to @shinyblurry for being the exact opposite of the articulate, reasonable mind the hitch is.

*notdead

This dead video has been deemed functional; it must have been accidentally declared dead - declared notdead by luxury_pie.

>> ^honkeytonk73:

Cheers to you hitch. The rational world sends respect and admiration.


No it doesn't...the world doesn't fucking care.

What's with all the thread-crapping?

I believe honkeytonk73 was talking about the rational world, not the world in general. Don't worry, we won't mistake for being rational. Or for having contributed anything to the thread.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^honkeytonk73:
Cheers to you hitch. The rational world sends respect and admiration.

No it doesn't...the world doesn't fucking care.

>> ^SpaceGirlSpiff:

Don't worry, we won't mistake for being rational.
>> ^Yogi:
>> ^honkeytonk73:
Cheers to you hitch. The rational world sends respect and admiration.

No it doesn't...the world doesn't fucking care.



What?

I think she was just saying " your kind of a dick", without being agressive. Hope this helped.
>> ^Yogi:
>> ^SpaceGirlSpiff:
Don't worry, we won't mistake for being rational.
>> ^Yogi:
>> ^honkeytonk73:
Cheers to you hitch. The rational world sends respect and admiration.

No it doesn't...the world doesn't fucking care.


What?

I'm thankful for Christopher Hitchens and not having to take shinyblurry off ignore in order to downvote his stupid comments.

Although @shinyblurry and @Yogi and I disagree about many things, I think they both make valid points here. If this was a "Light one up for Hitchens" campaign, I think most people would find it in bad taste. It seems weird to me as well to pay respect to the man by promoting one of the things that even he himself admits (according to @hpqp 's quote) is leading directly to his premature demise.

And Yogi is also fully correct--most people in the world (even @SpaceGirlSpiff 's so-called "rational" world) are not going to care one way or the other about Hitchens's eventual death. The people who will care are mostly atheists which, according to Wikipedia anyway, only account for about 2.3% of the world's population. And even among atheists, Hitchens' style of in-your-face atheism only appeals to a limited number of them, which reduces the number even further. Though I don't doubt that the number of people offering condolences will be in the millions, that's a small fraction of the population of the world.

You know, I rarely take the time to bother to comment on the Sift these days (in particular anything to do with religion) because--like American politics--it seems to have become so partisan. I only posted this time because I think Shiny and Yogi's comments didn't get a fair shake before the ridicule and downvoting started. Aside from @hpqp 's attempt to actually respond to Shiny's comment (by quoting Hitchens and implying that he would approve of the campaign), most people's responses to both Shiny and Yogi tended to be knee-jerk ridicule or insta-downvoting. The Sift didn't used to be like this and it makes me a bit sad to see it travel down this path.

But in this case maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Hitchens' confrontational debating strategy often involves not just making a point but also ridiculing his opponents while doing so, so I don't suppose I should expect better behavior from his most ardent fans.

((Puts away soap-box))

@SDGundamX

Yogi has his/her own, personal issues with reality, so jumping in with the "Doctor" doesn't gain you a whole lot of juice.

Assuming 2.3% is correct (anditisn'tevenclose*), that makes only 161 million, according to you, that could potentially care about the death of Mr. Hitchens. Not very Christian of the rest of you lot, now is it? I'm not even sure what your point is, yet you dedicated a whole paragraph to it. What do you think is the minimum number of caring human beings required for someone's death to matter? Why does it seem so important for you to believe that so few will care about Hitchen's death? Are you trying to dismiss his importance in this world by claiming only a few TENS OF MILLIONS of people will miss him? How many people will give a shit when YOU die?

Shinyblurry seems to have some delusion that witnessing here in the lion's den of VideoSift will score him bonus points with Allah. His every comment and video is part of a personal crusade to save us lowly heathens, and I find it offensive and TIRESOME. His comments used to get a "fair shake" from me. Now, they don't. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who is tired of his relentless, delusional lunacy. The only thing that can truly save him are an unmarked black van with heavily tinted windows, some nice men in white coats, and about 6 months of heavy deprogramming.

Christopher Hitchens is my mf'ing jesus! He hath shown me the way! Religion is TRULY the root of all evil in this world. Hitchens is one of those "crazy ones" who "move the human race forward". Religion will die a slow death, but, unlike Hitchen's legacy, it WILL die. We may even get to Mars after all.

All I have is some Momokawa saké, but I'm sure you'll understand, Mr. Hitchens. Bottoms up!




*It's around 14%. Yep, about 1 Billion atheists/agnostics (and rising).

@SDGundamX said: Hitchens' confrontational debating strategy often involves not just making a point but also ridiculing his opponents' ideologies/beliefs while doing so, so I don't suppose I should expect better behavior from his most ardent fans.

FTFY

Also, we celebrate the deaths of soldiers with 21-gun salutes, and yet guns kill people too. What a senseless, heartless military tradition for paying homage!! I find it hard to believe that you, SDGundamX, would actually take shiny's pathetic evangelical opportunism seriously. So toasting to someone's health is all of a sudden some big insult? Wow, I wonder how your wedding went... (<--sarcasm)
If Hitchens were a chronic smoker it would be a bit weirder to "light one up" since that is not a cultural tradition, as toasting is. Even then, as a non-drinker I raise my glass of Yogi tea (I kid you not) to one of the most eloquent supporters of reason, and would light up a sparkler were he a chain-smoker. Here's to you, Hitchens.

I already regret saying anything because this is exactly what I was talking about.

@hpqp

Let's try to stay on topic, shall we? My wedding and 21-gun salutes have nothing to do with this. Toasting an alcoholic's health is incredibly ironic, particularly when it is said alcoholism that's a contributing factor in his early death. Yes, Shiny used the very last sentence of his post as an evangelical opportunity, but he was making a valid point before that which got completely overlooked because people were too busy looking for ways to insult him. And that was my point. Particularly in the religion Sifts people aren't paying attention to what the other posters are saying. It's become O'Reilly-fied. He who can comment the most (often the most sarcastically) wins. Take a look at your own reply to my post and try to tell me this isn't the case. I find it sad and frustrating, and that's why I don't often comment here anymore--I've found other sites where I can discuss atheism and religion with people more interested in rational discussion than comment upvotes and imaginary "zing" points for creatively insulting people who disagree with them.

@Fletch

Thank you for your comments, and for both missing my point and proving it at the very same time. Kudos!

@SDGundamX, Hitchens was not an alcoholic. It is possible to enjoy a few drinks without being an alcoholic.

As for your response to @Fletch, I fail to see how he either missed or proved your point. All I can see is that he refuted your bullshit with facts and logic. But I guess those aren't really popular with your ilk.

@SDGundamX

WARNING: pretty harsh words ahead.

First, I'm not going to take up the "to toast or not to toast" subject, only point out that if you choose to ignore my "sarcasm" label, you can't go on to blame me from straying off topic (also: Hitchens is not an alcoholic, which is why I posted the citation from him about his drinking. What with all the dolts he's debated though, it's little wonder he felt like taking the edge off).

Sifters up/down-vote a comment based on their (dis-)agreement with it's content/sentiment, as do you, so no need to get self-righteous about it. Some comments are sarcastic, some funny, some serious arguments; that's communication for you (you'll note the highest rated comments on VS are not necessarily the most snarky (see here, or my top comment for example).

Saying that we don't pay attention to what other comments say is ridiculous in this context: it is because attention has been paid that snarky witticisms can be writ (and so spot on, may I add). Seriously though, saying that the religion/atheism discussion has been "O'Reillyfied" is incredibly insulting and downright false (unless you're talking about shiny's comments... but since he's pretty much the only one to stand up for his absurd convictions on VS I can see why you'd get that impression, from that side of the argument in any case). You point to my response as an example, but it only shows that I'm making two points: correcting your false statement about what Hitchens does in his debates in the briefest possible manner, and arguing that there is nothing sinister or wrong in drinking to a sick man in homage of what he's accomplished, no matter if alcohol is responsible for his sickness.

It seems to me that, as @ChaosEngine points out, you simply don't like being called out on your false assumptions and accusations. I find it telling that you took the time to answer my comment here, whining about how it's impossible to have a debate, but you chose not to answer to my comment here, in which I call you out on your false assumptions without sarcasm, but with evidence (more on that here). So coming here on your high horse to look down on those of us who sprinkle our arguments with both evidence and sarcasm is the height of hypocrisy when you choose to ignore all the actual debate going on. No wonder you can't understand why sifters no longer respond to shiny's bs, or if they do, with nothing but scorn and derision. Not all of us have the patience of a Christopher Hitchens with people who repeatedly spout the same nonsense no matter how many times it is refuted. If all you can do is resort to complaining about tone then by all means, go somewhere where people do not rustle your feathers or question your assumptions, but don't delude yourself into thinking that that is a more rational debate than the ones here.

Yes, the above is harsh, but sometimes one need be to get a point across. If I didn't think you were capable of rational debate I would simply ignore you (as I do shiny).

@hpqp

Rational debate often isn't what happens here on the Sift, unfortunately, which is why I have indeed moved on to other sites--sites where the majority of discussion challenges people's assumptions without the need for cheap theatrics like sarcasm or insults or condescension.

I have no problem with upvoting or downvoting comments (you seem to have misunderstood my point there). I have a problem to the pandering for upvotes through insulting another poster without addressing the content of their post in any rational way (and thereby dismissing the original poster's argument--ad hominem in its purest form). That's a practice that is becoming a bit too frequent here in my opinion and the way this thread has developed is damning evidence for it (to your credit, you started out in this whole thing by actually addressing the point of Shiny's post rather than just harping on his evangelicalism--it's too bad things went downhill from there).

As I posted in @ChaosEngine's profile, whether Hitchens is or is not an alcoholic is a matter of opinion--and I happen to believe very much that he is. I posted my rationale for why I believe he is an alcoholic in that post, so check out Chaos's profile if you're interested in reading why.

As I also said in that post (on Chaos's profile), regardless of whether he is an alcoholic or not we can all agree (Hitchens would absolutely agree, I think) that he has been an excessive drinker. And this excessive drinking is likely one factor in the development of his cancer. Which brings me back to the original point which everyone seems so intent on missing--toasting an alcoholic excessive drinker is incredibly ironic, particularly when it is said alcoholism excessive drinking that's a contributing factor in his early death.

You disagree that he is an alcoholic? That's fine. Go ahead write your support for your point of view here. In fact, I can already guess what you'd provide as support: Hitchens "60 Minutes" interview in which he is asked point-blank whether he believes he is an alcoholic. And I would refute that interview and you could provide more support for your opinion and so on... But we'd just be arguing semantics at that point and missing out on Shiny's original point.

Now, we could have a fine and friendly disagreement about this whole issue without the name-calling, without the sarcasm, without egos getting in the way.

But this is the Sift and, as you have once again proven to me, this is not the place for that to happen.

By the way, while I did rather enjoy the condescending arrogance of your "FTFY" in your original reply to me, had you actually bothered to ask me why I wrote it we could have probably had an interesting discussion about a number of things, such as whether insulting someone's beliefs does or does not insult them personally and how some of Hitchens' comments are not actually directed against beliefs but specific people (Mother Teresa, for instance). But so convinced of your position were you that you chose to burn that bridge of dialogue before we could even cross it.

Also, I never answered your other post because I have a full-time job with unpaid overtime and a 6-month old at home, so I only get a limited amount of Net time. Given how this thread has gone, I now have zero inclination to continue talking with you. I said my peace in that thread. You replied. Let people who come later read the comments and decide for themselves what they want to believe or whether they even care. I simply don't anymore.

Thanks for reminding me about why I don't post comments on the Sift (at least, not anything that expresses much of an opinion).

Happy Sifting to you.

@SDGundamX

You make a number of fair points, and I humbly accept your chastisement of my condescending attitude (<--no sarcasm here, rereading my own post with the mist of anger gone makes me feel a tad ashamed of myself). As you can see, it is not above me to make false assumptions (re: why you didn't respond to the other comment), but at least it isn't beneath me to recognise when my bitchy ego has gotten in the way.
As for the subject matter(s), I guess we disagree on Hitchens being an alcoholic and it being inappropriate to toast him. What I still stand by - and what really pissed me off to begin with (pardon my French) - is that I do not think the discussion on the Sift has been "O'Reillyfied". Sure, people get heated and say nasty things (I am one of those), but then again, we're only human. As for making snarky comments for the sole purpose of garnering votes, I have to disagree. If you had an inkling of the kind of pestering shite shiny has been here you would understand why most of us have nothing but utter contempt for both him and the ideology he persistently preaches at us (if you feel like it, browse his comment history). I think many of these comments are in the spirit of the following quote by T. Jefferson: "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."

I would actually be very interested in discussing whether insulting someone's beliefs is an insult to them or not (my position is obviously that it's not).

cheers

RIP Hitchens. I raise my glass to you.

*promote

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Wednesday, November 9th, 2011 2:17pm PST - promote requested by therealblankman.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'christopher hitchens, tribute, voice of reason, hommage, whisky, cheers' to 'RIP, christopher hitchens, tribute, voice of reason, homage, whisky, cheers' - edited by therealblankman

Cheers Hitch and goodnight

Hows about people remember and celebrate the man however the hell they want ?

>> ^sirex:

Hows about people remember and celebrate the man however the hell they want ?


Sure.

I'll make mine a double.

Nevermind.

Edit: Nevermind. Speaking ill of the dead and all.

>> ^shinyblurry:

Instead of this insensitive gesture, pray for Chris, that God would have mercy on his soul.


Because praying has cured so many other problems around the world... ಠ_ಠ

hitchens voice will be missed.
i appreciated his brand of atheism because he didnt paint with a broad brush.
he was specific in his criticism.he went after the very thing that the fundamentalist holds sacred i.e:bible,torah,quran.
and he was right to do so.
those are tangible,material texts which can be touched,read and interpreted and therefore totally subject to analysis and NOT off the table just for the simple fact they are considered "holy" by some.

he exposed the contradictions.
the utter hypocrisy of so many churches so-called doctrine and because he used that tactic i never saw him lose a debate.
though some perceived the outcome different (dinesh d'souza comes to mind).
he had such a flair about him and his eloquence and ability to expose the religious rhetoric with a snark that was unmatched.i used to actually burst out laughing.

the debates i watched him in always came down to the most basic common denominator which was simply:we cant prove or disprove the existence of spirit or of god and to attempt to is an exercise in futility.game over.

shine on mr hitchens.