Sweet *money.

Adding video to channels (Money) - requested by gwiz665.

What can the rich buy with their tax cut?


Employ another employee
Invest in capital equipment
keep the company insurance plan
Keep company matching to employee 401k
Spend then money more wisely

Congressman Grayson (D-Fla.) is such a wipe. Wonder why he lost his election.

Rich people are not going to use the money they save on their personal income taxes to employ more people, keep company insurance or match employee 401Ks. Companies and corporations do those things with their profits not with the personal income of the owners/CEOs/etc.
>> ^bobknight33:

What can the rich buy with their tax cut?

Employ another employee
Invest in capital equipment
keep the company insurance plan
Keep company matching to employee 401k
Spend then money more wisely
Congressman Grayson (D-Fla.) is such a wipe. Wonder why he lost his election.

>> ^bobknight33:

What can the rich buy with their tax cut?

Employ another employee
Invest in capital equipment
keep the company insurance plan
Keep company matching to employee 401k
Spend then money more wisely
Congressman Grayson (D-Fla.) is such a wipe. Wonder why he lost his election.


I will agree that he could have made a better case overall, but even if his argument isn't fully sound, the idea is. Recent studies show that the rich don't spend tax cuts on the things you mentioned. In fact they often don't spend them at all!!!

Therein lies the problem with this argument. Even if they bought a new BMW every year it would still be helping the economy more than saving it which is what they actually are doing. Bottom line, allowing the tax cuts to expire for the rich would encourage the wealthy to spend and will likely help the economy.

You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence.
You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.

--Abraham Lincoln



Dis-Grayson? Good riddance to mad rubbish!

@quantumushroom

It's funny that a simple google search was able to completely disprove anything you wrote about Lincoln.

The quote you so quickly pulled out of your ass is actually by William J. H. Boetecker, a religious leader and outspoken political conservative.

Your attempt at a coherent argument was admirable, but simple facts led to your downfall.

How much mustard will the republicans get?

The republicans will get 20,000 jars of mustard, and that's horrible

quantumushroom was PWNED!

Although, while admitting I am a hardcore Democrat leaning toward Socialist, I think there are some valid points to Boetecker's statements. It's just that wealthy people lack empathy towards those who have so much less than them. Wealthy people most often acquire their fortune from the sweat and hard work of the working class. I watched my own father build a million-dollar business off of minimum-wage workers who didn't get health insurance or more than a week of paid time off even after working for him for several years.

I will miss Grayson. I hope he returns.

Oh that is priceless. Ironic that Boetecker is also credited with coining the Seven National Crimes of which QM suffers so acutely (especially the sixth):

* I don’t think.
* I don’t know.
* I don’t care.
* I am too busy.
* I leave well enough alone.
* I have no time to read and find out.
* I am not interested.

I've said it before I'll say it again, rich people are rich because they take in a lot more money than they give out. Trickle down economics has never worked and never will. The rich have always fared best when the middle class is robust. 10 rich people buying Mercedes isn't going to stimulate economy half as much as 1000 middle class people buying Ford Focuces. The wealth disparity between the top 20% and the bottom 80% in America hasn't been getting smaller its been getting bigger. The rich moan and cry robbery, oh woah is me I have to pay $84,000 more in taxes this year but I made $200,000 more than I did 10 years ago. Its like the kid who's told to share his candy so he jams half of it in his mouth and then complains its not fair to share because he hardly has any left.

Grayson's point is that a small sacrifice form the rich can make a big difference for everyone else. I don't know about you but $84,000 could solve a lot of my problems, I could pay off my student loans, get a car that works and go back to school for my PhD. while being able to live frugally yet comfortably while not needing to take out additional loans. Someone who makes 1.4 millon, they get a new Mercedes.

If only the GOP had Snopes.com.

The next Senator from Florida.

I don't think I understand this argument. He is saying that the rich are going to spend money on stuff . . . right? Isn't that what we want the rich to do - spend money? I also am a bit mystified as to his motive for the class warfare crap (assigning evil to every millionaire, ie 'the high and mighty'); whose love of money is he exposing, exactly? Sounds like he's got a bit of pecunious envy. That love of money deal- it really is the root of all sorts of evil.

The point he should have been trying to make and the point he made are close, but not quite the same.

He would have you believe that the extra money the rich get will be spent (if it's spent at all) on one type of product, and it may very well be. It's like getting free money, so why not spend it on something you would not have otherwise bought this year?

But what he should have been trying to point out is that a lot of people spending a little bit of money motivates the economy more than one person spending a lot of money on one big item.

If a lot of people are spending 100 dollars here and there, it creates a need for additional people working to handle those extra customers. Especially in customer service type jobs such as restaurants. Basically the non-rich people will use the money more reliably and usually more locally than the rich. It was shown in some studies of unemployment funds.. that tax cuts for the rich don't generate near as much money as unemployment funds. It was something like 1 dollar toward unemployment causes 1.6 dollars to be generated in the economy, and has the added benefit of allowing an unemployed person to keep their home and the lights on instead of defaulting. Basically ever dime an unemployed person gets off unemployment went into bills and necessities, and all that spending caused others to spend another 60 cents for every dollar that guy spent...keeping other people employed.

And the rich tax cuts did nothing even close to that kind of money generation....

Or simpler. Poorer people will spend tax cuts on more necessities and therefore more reliably spend it. While richer people will spend it on luxury and therefore less reliably spend it.

Yeah, they can buy foreign cars, made in a foreign country with foreign labour.

Trickle-down is BS. People are greedy motherfuckers, the rich are the greediest motherfuckerist and so you entrust them with your money and economy? Whats that? Some sort of Economic Crisis waiting to happen? Oh right.

But the Federal Government is the richest, Greediest, most waste-fullest motherfuckerists EVER. Why give them more?

>> ^Jinx:

Yeah, they can buy foreign cars, made in a foreign country with foreign labour.
Trickle-down is BS. People are greedy motherfuckers, the rich are the greediest motherfuckerist and so you entrust them with your money and economy? Whats that? Some sort of Economic Crisis waiting to happen? Oh right.

* You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
* You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
* You cannot help little men by tearing down big men.
* You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
* You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
* You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money.
* You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
* You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.
* You cannot build character and courage by destroying men's initiative and independence.
* You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves.

I love it when tax cuts COST the American people important stuff like Twinkies.
Dis-Grayson? Good riddance to mad rubbish!

Downvote for the sake of downvoting? I'm sure you will.

I down-vote because I think you're a sock-puppet.
>> ^pavel_one:

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot help little men by tearing down big men.
You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.
You cannot build character and courage by destroying men's initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves.
I love it when tax cuts COST the American people important stuff like Twinkies.
Dis-Grayson? Good riddance to mad rubbish!
Downvote for the sake of downvoting? I'm sure you will.

Good to see old Grayson isn't going quietly after the harsh lame ducking he received. If he doesn't have plans to do a useful job, he would make a good pundit.

I sincerely appreciate the correction. While the source was incorrect, the quote yet remains 100% true. You will never tax your way to prosperity and you'll achieve nothing by demonizing the wealthy.

Here's another quote you're sure to enjoy. Google it to your hearts' content.

FDR's treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, wrote in his diary: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. ... We have never made good on our promises. ... I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... and an enormous debt to boot!"


If only the left and Odumbo could prove me wrong with jobs and prosperity instead of empty rhetoric and blame, I'd gladly admit to being wrong. Until then, I voted the bastards out November 2nd and it felt great. Expect it again in 2012.

I really don't understand why Ameri-marxists don't vote with their feet and move to already-socialist Europe...just try to avoid Greece...they're having a bit of trouble.

Why not spend the money on the next big thing...

This country needs a goal, like the manhattan project or Apollo program.
Spend the money and create jobs at the same time and give science a boost..

man you did it before!

>> ^quantumushroom:

I sincerely appreciate the correction. While the source was incorrect, the quote yet remains 100% true. You will never tax your way to prosperity and you'll achieve nothing by demonizing the wealthy.
Here's another quote you're sure to enjoy. Google it to your hearts' content.
FDR's treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, wrote in his diary: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. ... We have never made good on our promises. ... I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... and an enormous debt to boot!"

If only the left and Odumbo could prove me wrong with jobs and prosperity instead of empty rhetoric and blame, I'd gladly admit to being wrong. Until then, I voted the bastards out November 2nd and it felt great. Expect it again in 2012.
I really don't understand why Ameri-marxists don't vote with their feet and move to already-socialist Europe...just try to avoid Greece...they're having a bit of trouble.


Internet trolling is fun. GG.

Here is one for you, quantum:

640K is enough for anyone.
--Bill Gates

To summarize the chief factors favoring progressivity of income tax:

1. The utility of money is roughly logarithmic -- an increase from 20k to 30k in salary corresponds to a bajillion times more increase in the quality of life than an increase in salary from 1M to 1.01M.

2. Because of #1, the wealthier someone is, the lower thier marginal propensity to consume (the higher their savings rate).

3. The distribution of income among high-MPC and low-MPC people determines aggregate demand, which determines whether we have deflation or not. By raising taxes on the rich and drastically cutting taxes on everybody else, we prevent deflation that the Fed has been worried about since the crash.

>> ^entr0py:

Good to see old Grayson isn't going quietly after the harsh lame ducking he received. If he doesn't have plans to do a useful job, he would make a good pundit.


He already is a very successful trial lawyer and multimillionaire.

Why study macroeconomics when you can just go "herp derp, taxes are bad" like Sarah Palin?

As a proud member of the Ameri-marxist party, I only stay in the USA to annoy the Conserva-rapists and Republi-pedophiles.

>> ^quantumushroom:

I sincerely appreciate the correction. While the source was incorrect, the quote yet remains 100% true. You will never tax your way to prosperity and you'll achieve nothing by demonizing the wealthy.
Here's another quote you're sure to enjoy. Google it to your hearts' content.
FDR's treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, wrote in his diary: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. ... We have never made good on our promises. ... I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... and an enormous debt to boot!"

If only the left and Odumbo could prove me wrong with jobs and prosperity instead of empty rhetoric and blame, I'd gladly admit to being wrong. Until then, I voted the bastards out November 2nd and it felt great. Expect it again in 2012.
I really don't understand why Ameri-marxists don't vote with their feet and move to already-socialist Europe...just try to avoid Greece...they're having a bit of trouble.

Once again Grayson would rather cause controversy than work to get things done. Whether you agree with his ultimate goal or not, this is divisive bullshit that can only stir up conflict.

Your attempt at a coherent argument was admirable, but simple facts led to your downfall.

Now you know how I feel the other 98% of the time. Downfall? I enjoyed a Chicago-style thin crust pizza last night. I don't remember any downfall.

I love this so much here it is again:

If only the left and Odumbo could prove me wrong with jobs and prosperity instead of empty rhetoric and blame, I'd gladly admit to being wrong.

It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm.

The liberal argument is that we shouldn't be giving tax cuts out (cutting revenue) during a recession, but at least tax cuts to the middle class would spur the economy. Rich folks don't do nothing with tax cuts but squirrel it away, according to statistics and studies et cetera. I lived among the richest of folks and the only suffering going on around here is the ever-present status anxiety that the life among the cloudy heights will fall soon. Whereas my notsorich family is so grateful that medicare kicked in to help get through the cancer...

I don't think I understand this argument. He is saying that the rich are going to spend money on stuff . . . right? Isn't that what we want the rich to do - spend money? I also am a bit mystified as to his motive for the class warfare crap (assigning evil to every millionaire, ie 'the high and mighty'); whose love of money is he exposing, exactly? Sounds like he's got a bit of pecunious envy. That love of money deal- it really is the root of all sorts of evil.

@ QuantumMushroom

Your Mr. T internet character was mildly amusing at first, but I have come to realize the reason I don't ever hear Mr. T use his silly persona to do anything more than Shout or Shoot at people, or hell advertise for WoW is because it would be annoying.

It's clear that you have very little knowledge when it comes to the topics you debate. I think this is the second or third time I've seen you use a FDR's treasury secretary quote, and randomly giving credit of quotes to very respected people (Lincoln), that really come from people nobody has respect for is really hurting your image here. It appears you are willing to believe anything if it supports your opinion.

I am at this point assuming your are just arguing for fun, or trolling, I'm not really sure. If this is the case you win. Although I'm not sure what you won?

If your not arguing for either of the above reasons you fall into one of the following, which in my opinion is even worse than being a silly internet troll.

I don't think you are making 1.4 million a year and trying to protect your money, although that's an assumption, and really the only valid reason for arguing for wealthy tax cuts. Worse yet if you are actually serious about your position, and are not very wealthy. You must believe you are better off by the wealthy getting this money instead of the people who need it through government run programs then you have to much respect for the majority of the wealthy. They don't see tax breaks as charity to be donated, but as personal money earned. Large expenses are paid to buy members of congress, and convincing the poor that we need lower taxes for the rich is also not cheap. I wonder how expensive it was to buy the tea party? Anyways if you are fighting for the top 1% of America to keep their money by changing the laws so they don't have to pay their full taxes, and your not wealthy. You are being a fool, simple as that.

QM, instead of reading whatever right wing blog all these slogans are coming from (Ameri-marxists? HAH GOLD!), can you take the trouble to pick up a copy of The Economist one week? This week's edition will do you quite well. They're economically right and socially left.

I think what you'll find is that most pragmatists regardless of their economic persuasion have realized 3 things about the current economic situation in the US:

1) Keynesian monetary policy works and that no sensible economist believes that the stimulus has not helped to reduce unemployment from the much higher level 12/13%+ it would have reached otherwise.

2) Spending will have to be trimmed in social security/medicare/medicaid/pensions and defense, and the retirement age will no doubt rise.

3) The Bush tax cuts were the single biggest contributors to the expansion of the federal debt from a balanced budget before the global financial crisis hit. Over time, taxes will have to rise to cope with the costs of medicare/pensions because of an ageing population.

>> ^quantumushroom:

I sincerely appreciate the correction. While the source was incorrect, the quote yet remains 100% true. You will never tax your way to prosperity and you'll achieve nothing by demonizing the wealthy.
Here's another quote you're sure to enjoy. Google it to your hearts' content.
FDR's treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, wrote in his diary: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. ... We have never made good on our promises. ... I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... and an enormous debt to boot!"

If only the left and Odumbo could prove me wrong with jobs and prosperity instead of empty rhetoric and blame, I'd gladly admit to being wrong. Until then, I voted the bastards out November 2nd and it felt great. Expect it again in 2012.
I really don't understand why Ameri-marxists don't vote with their feet and move to already-socialist Europe...just try to avoid Greece...they're having a bit of trouble.

I am part of that 1%, and I can honestly say that since I am not a business owner, I'd spent it on more travel. I don't see the point for us to get any more tax breaks; however, I do hate the fact that we are wasting our taxes on future government sponsored pensions and these useless wars.

For @quantumushroom's edification.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x35/elledark/elle03/elle03-688.jpg

Clearly Lincoln was a RINO, right @quantumushroom?