*lies *conspiracy

Adding video to channels (Conspiracy, Lies) - requested by Duckman33.

I'm very confused by this. I understand his anger regarding the military policy of shooting civilians and lengthened tours, but he keeps bringing it back to 9/11. What does the Iraq war currently have to do with 9/11, other than it being used by Bush and others as a vague justification when they were trying to sell it back in '03? And what does being a darker skinned white person have to do with anything? He keeps repeating "believing 9/11 was a lie." In what way? That it was a government setup/coverup or the use of it as a justification for war? Can someone explain what the hell he's talking about?

Also, it should be "breaks it down" in the description, not brake.

There was a lot of knee-jerk discrimination right after the attack (I remember this going on myself). He was in a very "white" part of the country with dark skin and other features that made him resemble 'the enemy'.

I don't think he directly says it, but it's probably another factor that prevented him from getting a well paying job.

In his mentions of 9/11 I think he's only referring to the justification to war aspect, not the setup/cover up. I didn't quite catch in what way he's tieing it all together myself, but I think his talk was part of a larger seminar. There's probably some unspoken (least in this video) theme to the talks that give what he's saying more context.

He's referring to the confusing claims made by 9/11 "Truthers." He was speaking at a crackpot, conspiracy theory conference.

I think he's justified to be angry about being sent to war with no real goal, and a military strategy thought up infants, but it doesn't have anything to do with 9/11 being an "inside job" or whatever nonsense it is the conspiracy-theory nuts are raving about these days. New World Order, Illuminati, Bildegerg Group, etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.

Website for the conference he was speaking at: http://www.apfn.org/apfn/911accountability.htm (sadly, it appears to be down, but there are a few videos left up).

"Conspiracy-theory nuts"? "Crackpots"? Are insults really necessary?

Why is it that you people have to call us who question the obvious flaws in the "official explanation" on what brought down the twin towers "crackpots" and "nutjobs"? Just because we don't believe everything we are told by our corrupt Government doesn't make us crazy, whackjob, nutcases.

How about since I don't like or agree with what you just said here I call you a douchebag, idiot, jerk, or asshole?

"They're not terrorists, they're wearing sandals." Just one of many reasons not to listen to this guy. He says he was "ordered to kill innocent people" and I can understand that the urge to follow orders can be strong, but it is a soldier's duty to refuse and report an unlawful order, and that is definitely an unlawful order.

He deserted the army and has helped others go AWOL and calls for more soldiers to resist. As a soldier myself I find this attitude disgusting. America has an all-volunteer army. No one forced him to join. You can't become a pacifist or a conscientious objector after actively seeking a job in which you might have to kill people.

This guy is just another undereducated soldier speaking about things beyond his understanding.

As for his obsession with Iraq and 9/11... no one really believes they have anything to do with each other anymore do they? Iraq was an idiotic move by Bush and his cronies to finish what Bush Sr. started.

I really had to stop watching when he started to suggest his loss was greater than those who lost family in 9/11... This was after of course, he claimed to not care about 9/11 but was also the reason he wanted to go to war and find the people responsible... wha?...

I think someone REALLY likes to have people hang on the things he is saying no matter how pourly constructed or thought out. It's unfortunate because he probably has some legitimate points to make, but to me he's completely ill-equiped to make them.

>> ^Skeeve:
No one forced him to join.


No they just didn't tell him he'd be shooting children for what is a convenient lie, to build an empire for the ultra-wealthy.

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Very interesting thoughts on this....

>> ^Skeeve:
He deserted the army and has helped others go AWOL and calls for more soldiers to resist. As a soldier myself I find this attitude disgusting. America has an all-volunteer army. No one forced him to join. You can't become a pacifist or a conscientious objector after actively seeking a job in which you might have to kill people.

Except he's not complaining that he had to fight; he's complaining that he had to murder. If I was a soldier and I was sent off to fight a war instigated against people who posed no threat to my country, I'd be pretty pissed off. The army is supposed to protect our country; it's not to be used as the President's personal vendetta team.

>> ^Januari:
I really had to stop watching when he started to suggest his loss was greater than those who lost family in 9/11... This was after of course, he claimed to not care about 9/11 but was also the reason he wanted to go to war and find the people responsible... wha?...

He said he didn't care about 9/11 when it happened because it didn't effect him. He was occupied with his own personal struggles. He's pointing out his tunnel-vision.

"I joined in '03 because I was broke." How do you interpret that as him wanting to find the people responsible?

He does slightly contradict himself when he says he joined up because he does quickly say something about wanting to be a soldier and fight in the war, but I mean if he's anything like me he's nervous as hell about talking in front of a bunch of strangers. I think what he was trying to convey was the attitude he had at that moment when he signed up.

Indeed, the responses in this thread have been interesting.

As Drax said he did condradict himself.

With regard to his being nervous, I disagree entirly. Nothing about him says nervous to me. It feels to me that he is very comfortably playing the martyr. Of course there is the suffering he experienced in an intollerent society for not being 'as white' as others. His references to others losing family while he lost 'many' brothers, brothers he would then go on to abandon is self-serving hypebole at best. He goest on to talk about how other organizations won't touch him, and he clearly goes out of his way to make sure of it. I'm sorry I just don't see this guy as being the least bit credible. And yet he is lauded upon here simply because he is a mouth peice for many who share his view while offering nothing in the way of evidence. You CAN be against the war and still think this individual and people like him are utter BS.

>> ^Skeeve:
"They're not terrorists, they're wearing sandals." Just one of many reasons not to listen to this guy. He says he was "ordered to kill innocent people" and I can understand that the urge to follow orders can be strong, but it is a soldier's duty to refuse and report an unlawful order, and that is definitely an unlawful order.
He deserted the army and has helped others go AWOL and calls for more soldiers to resist. As a soldier myself I find this attitude disgusting. America has an all-volunteer army. No one forced him to join. You can't become a pacifist or a conscientious objector after actively seeking a job in which you might have to kill people.
This guy is just another undereducated soldier speaking about things beyond his understanding.
As for his obsession with Iraq and 9/11... no one really believes they have anything to do with each other anymore do they? Iraq was an idiotic move by Bush and his cronies to finish what Bush Sr. started.


Mate. Killing innocents isn't something your personal generalizations/sentiments are able to justify/downgrade/trvialize to a large portion of the worlds population. Sounds like you are a good soldier, I can't fault you for that. Sounds like the above guy is a good human being, I definitely can't fault him for that...

He does have black hair, which I think qualifies him as being African American.

You might say that people in Iceland also have black hair, but have you considered that this guy has a beard, as he points out?

>> ^Drax:
He does slightly contradict himself when he says he joined up because he does quickly say something about wanting to be a soldier and fight in the war, but I mean if he's anything like me he's nervous as hell about talking in front of a bunch of strangers. I think what he was trying to convey was the attitude he had at that moment when he signed up.

He didn't say "fight in the war", he said "fight in a war". A very distinct difference. When I was a teen I remember glamourised about joining the army, experiencing combat and all that, I would dare guess most boys do. It wouldn't seem he's referring to an idealogical motivation to go to Iraq, at least given how he describes reacting to the Trade Tower attacks.


>> ^Duckman33:
"Conspiracy-theory nuts"? "Crackpots"? Are insults really necessary?

Probably not, it's not the best way to get your point across to someone. But it is invariably frustrating talking to people who will completely disregard fact and evidence contrary to their opinion. Which is not to say they don't mean well! Sometimes the answer to something is a lot more simple and realistic than they'd like it to be.

"You can't become a pacifist or a conscientious objector after actively seeking a job in which you might have to kill people."

Why?

Taken out of context, your statement doesn't make sense. It is possible for people to realize they have taken an incorrect action and seek to correct it only after having gone down the initial route. Taken in context, your statement is at best an over-simplification/generalization and at worst a conscious attempt to silence those who know first-hand the personal destruction of war. On the contrary, I would think that knowing precisely what it is like to shoot a fellow human with a different skin color and watch while his family tries to make him comfortable in his last breaths gives a human the ability to conscientiously object, like no other human can. Watching ones close friends die at the hand of an enemy only attacking you because you're affiliated with a swagger-rabbit asshole who just told them all to "Bring It On" would be enough to give a human the right to choose pacifism.

Those who have lived through that are, uniquely, allowed.

>> ^Raaagh:
>>Sounds like the above guy is a good human being, I definitely can't fault him for that...


A good human being? He admitted to murdering innocent people in Iraq. No amount of "I was following orders from big-bad, lying politicians" makes up for that.

In my own particular idiom, I want to comment on this whole "killing innocent civilians" line of thinking that some of you are using. For example - this guy in the vid. He isn't qualifying what he defines as an 'innocent civilian'. I expect his persective is something along these lines... 1. Iraq war is unjust. 2. Threfore all American actions in it are UNjust. 3. Therefore, aggressive action against anyone in Iraq is 'killing innocent civilians'. We don't know jack-all about this guy's actual situation except what he's telling us, which is obviously filtered, slanted, and biased to the nth degree. I expect the members of his platoon would have a very different interpretation.

People use the phrase to make themselves sound angelic, and to label things they don't like as demonic. So when you trot out the phrase 'killing innocent civilians' it makes it sound like the soldiers are going around, rounding up random citizens, and blowing them away. In reality, that 'innocent civilian' could very well have been a foreign nationalist Taliban jackass with a rocket launcher. Or (more likely) he had to shoot at a Taliban guy and innocent civilians were in the vicinity caught in the crossfire. It is vitually a complete guarantee that no person at ANY level ever told this guy, "Hey - go out and start shooting innocent civilians". That's in his head.

So this guy needs a little more factual evidence before I give any credence to his wild accusations. Especially since he loses 100 points on the 'sanity scale' for being a truther. Plus his language is idiotically generic. I very much doubt there is a scrap of evidence of any kind that American soldiers were ever ordered to 'kill everyone in a crowd once there is a single shot'. It is patently ridiculous to claim that 'EVERY apartment building in Bagdhad' has been blown up by the military. This guy is clearly two cans short of a six-pack.

I'd take him more seriously if he wasn't all Tom Cruise - Born on the Fourth of July. Like, would it kill him to have a shave? If he behaved like a soldier who really felt what was going on was wrong, he'd get further than looking like a Vietnam area, draft dogging, born-again hippie.

ugh..........this guy is a fucking tard. really dont know how to put it any other way

you're a resister huh? no, yer a fucking bitch ass punk who has not a fucking clue. Just like the other dipshits who take a press release to tell everyone how they served their time and theyre not goin back now that they've been reactivated via the IRR. Fucking tards have no idea what they signed. Shit heads

perhaps a bit presumptuous but if that was his DoD ID card at the time he got out.........a fucking E-1?!

A fucking cherry ass private?!

confirms my suspicion that all privates are fucking water headed tards

jan 04 - jul 04

6 whole months


do 2+ years and then we'll talk, shitfuck

apparenlty he's fighting to get his discharge upgraded from "other than honorable" so he can get "the VA benefits he deserves"

fuck him

SOooo, Smooman..., Tell us what you really think.
I feel like you are holding back a bit...

*quality

finaly have a point to spend

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by Hex.

*Taleban

ugh, ya this guy just struck a chord with me. I wanna beat his ass, and that doesnt happen very often.

I just look like an asshole from these posts eh? lol

He struck a chord. It resonates because it's the Truth.

Wait a couple more years and just as in Vietnam we'll start hearing about the disgusting level of atrocities, the =intentional= murder of innocents, that went on in Iraq.

In Vietnam they were called babykillers for a reason.

>> ^Memorare:
He struck a chord. It resonates because it's the Truth.
Wait a couple more years and just as in Vietnam we'll start hearing about the disgusting level of atrocities, the =intentional= murder of innocents, that went on in Iraq.
In Vietnam they were called babykillers for a reason.


On the Sift, others are called trolls, for a reason...



ps. in my previous post, I meant Vietnam ERA, not area. Too late to edit...

>> ^Memorare:
He struck a chord. It resonates because it's the Truth.
Wait a couple more years and just as in Vietnam we'll start hearing about the disgusting level of atrocities, the =intentional= murder of innocents, that went on in Iraq.
In Vietnam they were called babykillers for a reason.


and bleeding heart liberals were called pansies for a reason. Who would have thunk it, bad stuff happens when you try to kill each other with high explosive, doh.

Good comment thread here. I feel like I can empathize with most of the different takes on this guy. On the one hand, I think it is good that he is speaking out against the situation and presenting his viewpoint from someone that was in Iraq, even if it was only a short time compared to many other soldiers. On the other hand, he seems a bit contradictory and fishy in parts of his presentation.

One thing that I definitely agree with him on is the idea of escalation. We're pissed about 911, we go to war. Some of our troops get killed, we respond with increased force. Mistakes are inevitably made, property and lives lost by Iraqis, and more people there have immediate tangible reasons to resent us being there. This goes on and repeats itself, and the longer we stay the more our presence is going to be resented.

Saddam Hussein was a pretty bad, unstable guy, and I hope that we did the people of Iraq a favor by kicking him out. I also hope that we can work at rectifying our mistakes in the whole situation by providing them with a lot of assistance in transitioning into a stable and safe situation that wasn't possible with Saddam in charge. But I really doubt that keeping soldiers there is the best way to accomplish that at this point.

this post came up again for me somehow and for reasons i cant recall i watched it again. God damnit this shithead cherry is a fucking idiot. God damnit he pisses me off. His fucking pity-me, privileged, "no one knows loss like me" attitude god it makes me wanna beat his face in

i would take every piece of shit this turd says with a grain of salt and a shot of penicillin