"You mad?"

Evidence of child abuse or just more proof that those who can kick your ass are always right?

I guess I am old school, if I had kids I would definitely use corporal punishment.

He's still alive with both hands intact, so it's more evidence that Americans coddle their children.

Best line Give me the belt.

kids need the belt once in a while, when they really f up.

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent", became one of Isaac Asimov's favorite sayings.

Heinlein counters with "pain is the basic mechanism built into us by millions of years of evolution which safeguards us by warning when something threatens our survival. Why should society refuse to use such a highly perfected survival mechanism?"

The pain from falling off a chair while dancing is a basic mechanism. Self induced.

When the belt becomes your answer to the problem, unless the problem is your pants are falling down, you stop looking for an answer to your own problem.

The belt isn't the answer, it is a tool. The same way physical punishments like Push-Ups are for Military discipline. The same way solitary confinement or hard labor is used as a tool to provide discipline in prison.

I do not subscribe to the notion that non-punitive punishment is effective. Offering Johnny a new game if he doesn't torment his sister is teaching him that being bad is rewarded.

In the case of this incident, the belt was used as a tool to indicate that he had broken the rules and it was reinforced later by grounding.

Conversely, she could have taken the other available option and simply called the police to report her car stolen, which it was. His being her son does not excuse him from a crime of taking a vehicle that does not belong to you. That method would not be considered child abuse according to the guidelines you propose, however it would lead to juvenile charges, exposure to the legal system, and a simmering hatred of his mother that I suggest a simple embarrassing spanking/grounding would not.

Can you take it too far with physical punishment? Absolutely, and then it is most definitely abuse. Beating a child with an improvised switch until the child bleeds is abuse. Spanking them with a belt a few times in public, which adds a humiliation factor to the punishment, is not.

If ruling by fear is your answer, good luck with that.

I've been slapped in the face, spanked with a belt, paddle, hairbrush. All that did for me was to fear my father. He was a cop. A good cop.

What he didn't know is, all that pain just made me find different ways to not get caught. He did not know how to make me not fear him.

You decide if you want your children to fear you too.

BTW, if a screwdriver isn't the answer to remove a lug nut, why use it?

Sorry to hear that. As I have mentioned before (in a couple of different posts), I also grew up in a household that was deeply troubled and violent. My grandfather was a wonderful man when sober, unfortunately he was more often than not inebriated.

I experienced multiple styles of punishment, depending on the situation. If my grandfather was drunk, he was like as not to hit me. I still have a physical reminder of that method, in that he broke my nose once. I too learned to be elsewhere when he was drunk and to fear that version of my grandfather.

In times when he was sober, or when my grandmother was able (she suffered from MS), I received spankings. I learned that if I did not do certain things, I would not get spankings. So I stopped doing those things.

Same in school, I used to be a little shithead, very sarcastic and mean. I quickly learned that if I did things against other kids, I would get a paddling. The paddling didn't actually hurt that much, but the knowledge that other kids knew I was getting swats was very effective in making me stop acting out.

Later, as I became close to 18, both the school and my grandparents moved to a more hands off style. The school because, even in Texas, people were trying to get schools to stop using corporal punishment. My grandparents because they were older, sicker, and I was larger. My grandfather basically told me that I was close enough to being a man that I was going to make my own mistakes and he wasn't going to bail me out from them. I still got punished after the fact, but it wasn't physical.

Maybe I am an outlier, but that period was probably when I was the most wild. I got in trouble with the law, made terrible decisions, and probably would have done some serious time but for the guiding principles of my eventual wife when we started dating. I feel that if my grandparents and the school had been more strict during that time, I might have not had as many close calls as I did.

In any case, I would say that both of our experiences with earlier punishment would be taking it to the abuse level. I feel that corporal punishment, justly applied, is still better than not doing it. Fortunately we all can have our own opinion on the topic, so I can understand your viewpoint as well.

As far as the screwdriver, I wouldn't use it because it is completely ineffective. However, if I did not have a lug wrench and had a tool that could apply the proper force (say a crescent wrench or lockjaw pliers) I would use that tool.

One thing that is harder to teach a child is forgiveness. That can only be taught by example.

Remember, they get to choose your nursing home.

Consider that they may never forgive you for not correcting their errant path when the consequences were just a spanking and not a few years in prison or worse.

Not if you save your own money, then you can choose your own nursing home....like my mother did just this year....it's way nicer than I could or would provide.

I never said you should not correct their path. I'm saying there are other more effective and less violent ways to do that as long as you don't make the belt your answer.

The day may come when you discover that you will need to forgive yourself. You won't know how to do that unless you practice on others.

------------- Forgot to quote: newtboy says...

Consider that they may never forgive you for not correcting their errant path when the consequences were just a spanking and not a few years in prison or worse.

Not if you save your own money, then you can choose your own nursing home....like my mother did just this year....it's way nicer than I could or would provide.

*discard

Discarding this post - discard requested by original submitter Mordhaus.

(edit) nevermind

Just stumbled on this article today and thought I'd add here.

The Science of Spanking
The American Academy of Pediatrics
has a new policy on spanking: Don't do it.
Posted Dec 10, 2018

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-baby-scientist/201812/the-science-spanking