Wow. John Stewart is just showing himself to be an ornery old man here. He is actually wrong. Maddow is not the enemy, and neither is MSNBC. While I can't really hondestly say I am surprised by how equivocal and conservative he is being, it is disturbing. The tea party is NOT equivalent to a woman shouting war criminal on stage. His rhetoric is becoming knee-jerk and obnoxiously socratic: "But do you think MSNBC was AS dismissive to the tea party as it was to the woman screaming on the stage?" C'mon John...

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Wow. I completely disagree. I think Jon had some really valid points. His criticism of MSNBC really has been proportional. He's always clear that they are not the enemy, Fox News is the enemy. Still, they are not helping by responding to Fox News (and I think he comes correct on that front) with basically a cutesy version of Fox News. What Rachel didn't get is that Jon sees tremendous potential her. She could be a legitimate investigative journalist and a top tier interviewer. She just needs to lose just a little bit of the cute. When she gets serious, she can give you chills. If she did it regularly the show might actually get some flex. Since the journalistic talent on the left crept out of their box towards Jon's, nobody is stepping up and doing the real nitty gritty. Rachel could go down as a Bill Moyers, if she would just force you to take her seriously.

If you want to talk about false equivalence, how about the comparison between Rachel's fact checking, and Jon's? He's good at what he does. Let him do it. If you accept the world comparing what Jon Stewart does to the news, the news isn't doing their job.

>> ^griefer_queafer:

He is actually wrong.


Wow...pass judgement like that on other things? Maybe you'd like to tell someone they should get an abortion or not...just say it, it doesn't matter if you clarify with words or anything because you're fucking God. Idiot.

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This was startling good; Jon seems like he's seeing much bigger picture than most of us are used to thinking of. I had moments where I disagreed, but he articulated his point so well he quickly brought me around where I could at the very least truly respect his argument.

Sadly, the nuanced nature of his position will be lost on most folks; and funnily enough, that proves his point and reinforces his need to be where he is, media-wise. Fascinating.

>> ^griefer_queafer:

Wow. John Stewart is just showing himself to be an ornery old man here. He is actually wrong. Maddow is not the enemy, and neither is MSNBC. While I can't really hondestly say I am surprised by how equivocal and conservative he is being, it is disturbing. The tea party is NOT equivalent to a woman shouting war criminal on stage. His rhetoric is becoming knee-jerk and obnoxiously socratic: "But do you think MSNBC was AS dismissive to the tea party as it was to the woman screaming on the stage?" C'mon John...


How did you just watch and listen to Jon speak for the better part of an hour and not hear anything he said?

His point, as stated over and over, is not Code Pink ~= Tea Party, it's that the behavior they're (in)famous for is polarizing and stops or prevents any sort of discussion.

I think Jon gets off on a tangent about Bush and the War in Iraq without being really educated on the subject. Before the war was launched the pursuit of weapons of mass destruction was the single question that hasn't been answered thoroughly. It was about weapons and that's how it was qualified just days before the war. It was even stated that if Saddam and his sons left the country we would STILL invade Iraq...it was a forgone conclusion.

Great interview...but I think Jon because of his job spends an overwhelming time on the network news and almost no time on the foreign media. Which is where this stuff is mostly reported...and even then you have to do a research project to bring it all together sometimes.

I really like the way that both Stewart and Maddow think, and both of them were on great display in this interview. I personally tended to agree more with Stewart in the areas that they conflicted here, with one notable exception:

Stewart sees himself as being separated from the vein of true journalism by virtue of employing satire. Maddow argues that the way his audience perceives him is probably more important than the way he perceives himself. I feel that she is 90% correct -- I agree that being firmly granted in satire gives Stewart some leeway to divert and distinguish his show from conventional journalism, but I think that his audience is capable of comprehending the satirical nature of the show while still drawing journalistic value from it. In other words, being satire and being news aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Fortunately, I tend to think that distinction is almost academic due to the fact that Stewart takes his satire much more seriously than a lot of journalists take their news.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

I'm left feeling like Maddow would like for her show to be more like the Daily Show. I think she and her staff try really hard to make the news amusing - but in the end - people don't watch her for that - they watch her because she has strong, smart views that partisans like me agree with.

Excellent sift! Thanks.

I recommend reading http://exiledonline.com/the-rally-to-restore-vanity-generation-x-celebrates-its-homeric-struggle-against-lameness/ . Even though I agree with far from everything in that article/blog opinion, it has some valid points.

It's strange that Maddow doesn't seem to fully understand how counterproductive her partisan bias is. Once again I was impressed by Stewart's eloquence.

Great interview.

Stewarts assessment of "conversation stoppers" is much like Neil Degrasse-Tysons criticism of Richard Dawkins. In that sometimes when you're preaching to people that they're stupid for believing something...they might think you sound like a dick. You'll see hippies in media portrayed by that...lecturing people on how they're wrong instead of engaging them so they're more likely to completely shut down and then it's just John McCain staring at Jon Stewarts chest talking constantly and waiting for the interview to end.

EDIT: Here's the video I was talking about with Neil and Dawkins. Neil Rebukes Dawkins.

Kinda sad that we just sat through a fairly long conversation between two people who disagree but are being respectful for the sake of moving the discussion forward, and then in the first few comments to the video the status quo returns as rants and ad hominem attacks.

maddow's awe and respect for stewart is visible, and i think it's adorable.

also, i'm amazed at how incredibly influential he has become. i think even fox respects jon stewart. (in their own fox-y way of course)

That was a super-fab watch.
Maddow brought notes but seemed to leave them behind every now and then because the interview took a far more interesting turn. She is incredibly adaptable and I think she keeps getting better.
John brought some really good points to bear, the best being that she should not just fight fox when they are wrong.

And Maddow is right John is far bigger than he says he is. Many young people have abandoned the "NEWS" for him. They watch it, they see the joke, and they get the information. I know I use them for the election coverage, same information ...far more entertaining.

I've never seen anyone lay a glove on Stewart. Fox has tried to caricature him as a clown with his 'comedy', but he has drilled them every time they have come for him. He has appeared on their shows and given them a serve, and had them on his with the same treatment. People see him as being 'in the game' because he influences a whole generation, and when that influence is perceived as being directed against them, they attack him for it.

Being a comedian means having a lot of insecurities. I don't know exactly why that is, but it's the one thing that impedes Stewart's progression. If he's hooked up to news Clockwork Orange style the transition shouldn't be too difficult. As long as he doesn't secretly fancy himself the Roman soldier who flogged Christ to Golgotha, our nation will be better for it.

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