On the one hand, it's just a matter of differences in dialect; it's not the end of the world. But on the other hand, no one (including teachers) says anything to correct such grammar, because in cases such as this specifically, it would be seen as racist. Consider: no one has commented here yet, despite there being 18 votes already. It's just another topic everyone's afraid to touch because someone might be offended. Too much damn PC going around.

I think everyone just dosent care that teacher is cool it realy is a non story in england u r tought in school that there are dfifrent forms of language and difrent ways of speekign the same language. so when it comes to debating ore working its good to have a standerd form of a language so that people can comunicate esily. u should probably teach the history of quiloqual langage as well as it will have embeded cultral sagnificance.

Did you type that comment full of mistakes on purpose or did you just forget to Ax your spellchecker to verify it?

In my area there are plenty of whites who say “ax” instead of “ask”. When I worked at a high school, I cringed when the principal said “ax” in her daily announcements over the loud speaker. You will also hear “erl” instead of “oil” and “terlet” instead of “toilet.” The list goes on . . .

Am just glad Iraq is starting to be pronounced properly...

bravo, sir who wrote the book

"I gotta do this"

Wow...

That teacher is my personal hero!

And you can say "ain't" or "ax" or "irregardless", but I don't have to give you a job. You have to know the rules you're breaking and the consequences of breaking them.

It will be nice when I can finally walk into a convience store in Chicago and not have the the guy behind the bullet proof glass say "Dat wibi fifteen dallas sur."

don't forget 'mines'!

he had me all the way to "I gotta do this"

"I gotta do this" . . . lol

... hah! I wouldn't have noticed the 'I gotta do this' if others hadn't pointed it out.

Boy stew williamson is really good at spelling.

I wonder if he has any trouble with spelling or grammar in his second or third language.

This man is an enemy of the year 3000 (Futurama, where the word changes).

@stewilliamson - you obviously don't know westy.

Dialects are a fact of life, but if you want to look educated/cultured, you want to speak with a passably clean dialect/non-dialect, or you risk not getting ahead in professional environments where a moderate degree of sophistication is expected.

Having said that, the "he and I" and "to him and me" me/I split continues to baffle too many people for my taste.

I'm a teacher in Chicago (librarian, in fact... my first battle in this war was putting the first 'r' back in li-berry), and I find it most useful to subtly parrot back what they've just said (and never in a mean, mocking way). In general, I speak so well, that the 'clunkers' that come out really rattle them. They smile, sigh, and try again. Probably the most amazing connection I've discovered is how closely linked the use of profanity is to poor grammar--that if I call them on a bit of linguistic nastiness, they'll check themselves, realize that someone around them cares not only about what they're saying, but how they're saying it, and the proper grammar flows. I really think that it's all about expectations. In Behind the Color Lines, Henry Louis Gates, Jr. interviews Colin Powell, and there, surrounded by an all Black film crew, Powell lets his guard slip and starts talking 'Black'. It's apparent from the manner of presentation that his 'proper' way of speaking is NOT an act-- he, like any good warrior, becomes aware of his surroundings, and modifies his behavior to maximum effect. If he had 'kept it real' all his life, he'd have to work twice as hard for half the result.

There's a good article on this at Esquire.com: a word of warning--the title is NSFW: http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ1206BLACKESSAY_108

I agree timtoner, swear words are the fill in's for a poor vocabulary and express an uneducated mind. They are ok in measure but used every other sentance insults the intelligence of everyone.

that last line is hilarious... funny that the tv station didn't pick up on it..

This reminds me of Pinker's language mavens:

http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/1994_01_24_thenewrepublic.html

"I hope to have convinced you of two things. Many prescriptive rules are just plain dumb and should be deleted from the usage handbooks. And most of standard English is just that, standard, in the sense of standard units of currency or household voltages. It is just common sense that people should be given every encouragement and opportunity to learn the dialect that has become the standard one in their society and to employ it in many formal settings. But there is no need to use terms like "bad grammar," "fractured syntax," and "incorrect usage" when referring to rural and Black dialects. Though I am no fan of "politically correct" euphemism (in which, according to the satire, "white woman" should be replaced by "melanin-impoverished person of gender"), using terms like "bad grammar" for "nonstandard" is both insulting and scientifically inaccurate."

African American Vernacular English (the name for this dialect of English, spoken prediminantly by blacks in the US) is a recongnzied, stable variety of English. Its rules of grammar and pronunciation are just as strict as the standard varieties. I agree that these students will benefit immensely from knowing how to speak standard American English, but calling their style of speech "wrong" is awful. You can see it on these kids' faces that they feel bad for having "wrong" speaking skills. There's no reason they can't be informed that their variety of English is just one of millions of ways of speaking English, and one which, unfortunately, happens not to be acceptable within "the establishment," and if they want in, they'll have a much easier time if they learn to speak a standard variety.

YAAAAAAAAAAY! Another librarian on the sift!!!! Hey timtoner, lemme ax you a querastchn'?! Is it a proper library you work at? Y'know whats' emant by proper don't ya??

Westy, that was booootifull!

...and then part of my New Employee Orientation for new library staff members is telephone etiquette. I'm sure you can guess how many say, "_________ Public Liberry, how can I help you?" I have to really stress how important it is that they don't answer the phone that way.

Welcome, timtoner. Choggie's right, there are quite a few of us here.

One issue that no one has mentioned is the issue of power. When people talk about standard English in America, what they are usually really talking about is the English spoken by white, middle-class Americans. There's this unspoken assumption that if you don't speak like a white, middle-class American then you aren't educated. And that's really the tragedy of this story. Some of these kids might be capable of getting perfect scores on their SAT's but because they pronounce words differently than the minority group that is currently in power (white Americans) they'll be judged as somehow inferior on a job interview.

I just want to point out that there is no such thing as "standard English." There's British English, Australian English, Singaporean English, Indian English and a host of others. There's not even a "standard American English." There are many regional standards that have overlapping facets but still also have a lot of variation--the most important variation being pronunciation. Think about this--why is it in this clip the black children are considered uneducated for pronouncing ask as "ax" yet Boston children are not considered uneducated for pronouncing "car" as "ca-."

SDGundamX, i'm going to go out on a limb and say that those who pronounce car as 'ca' is because of their accent due to their geographical location, they are not changing the word into something else ... saying ax in place of ask (or my favorite: mines) is just poor english no matter where you are.

Again, what standard are you using? Who's making these rules? Nothing can be "poor" or "good" unless you have some sort of standard to compare it to. How about someone saying "you all" as "y'all?" Is that "uneducated" or "poor" English? No, of course not. My point is that we're much more tolerant of these regional pronunciations for one simple reason: a large population of caucasions use them.

Let's not confuse "grammar" with "pronunciation." They are two different concepts. If I say "y'all" but know full well that it is written "you all" or even only "you" in formal writing contexts (academic, business, etc.) then accusing my English of being "poor" is silly. Yet some people will consider a black student who writes "ask" correctly yet prounounces it "ax" as uneducated. And their only justification for such a judgement is that it isn't "standard English." And as I mentioned in the previous post, what they usually mean by that is that it's not "white middle-class English."

I don't see how anyone is getting hurt by a person saying "ax" instead of "ask" or "liberry" instead of "library." It's as ludicrous as chastising Boston speakers for saying "ca-" instead of "car" or Southern speakers for saying "y'all" instead of "you/you all." Those pronunciations would be acceptable in all contexts--social, academic, business, public speeches, etc. So why insist that black children change their pronunciation? It just smacks of racism to me.

how can this smack of racism when you , yourself, keep inserting the phrase 'white middle class English'.

unless english is someone's second language ... i don't care who uses the term 'ax' in place of 'ask' ... it is INCORRECT! you will not find 'ax' defined as: to inquire or request in any dictionary.

Mentioning race is not racism. Applying double standards to language use (it's okay for white people to use different pronunciations but not black people) IS racism.

"Ax" is incorrect according to you. Is "ca-" in the dictionary? Is "y'all?" Here on the West Coast many people pronounce "caught" the same way as people on the East Coast say "cot" (similarly "bought" is pronounced like "bot" as in "robot"). Those pronunciations are not in any dictionary either under those words. Are they wrong? Also you're confusing spelling with pronunciation. Many words are pronounced differently from their spellings in English, as I'm sure you're well aware (weigh is just one of many examples--no one pronounces the 'g' or 'h').

Dictionaries are outdated from the moment they are printed. The English language adds words at the rate of several hundred a year, so using a dictionary as a guide to what is correct or incorrect English is not very useful. Dictionaries are great for checking the spelling and definitions of words that have been in common use for a while. But they certainly aren't infallible. I own a dictionary printed just a few years ago that doesn't include a definition for "gay" to mean "homosexual."

But we're getting off-track here. My question to you is, when you say something is "incorrect" in English, to what authority are you appealing? Language is a form of power, so who's calling the shots and saying what's right and what's wrong? My answer is that mostly it is white, middle-class Americans who are doing the finger-waving without considering that their English is but one of many world-wide standards.

right, SDG .... through your examples ... people are pronouncing THOSE words with the letters in that order with their geograhical accent. they are not rearranging letters or sounds to make an entirely different word: ax >> ask. A.S.K. can ONLY be pronounced one way!

would you accept someone saying 'bool' for 'blue'?

there is no double standard here ... i cannot stand it when ANYONE uses the phrase 'ax' regardless of race ... i guess under your terms if i corrected a gay man or lesbian on the word i would then be homophobic?

as for your dictionaries statement ... thanks for the chuckle!! i'm quite confident that the word 'ask' & 'ax' have been around for a while and their definitions are well solidified.

anyway ... i've said what i can on the matter! it's been lovely debating with you, but i think i will turn my attention to something else now! ta!

Since everyone's weighing in on this one thing, I think when the gent in the video said "I gotta do this" he may have been trying to make a funny. Just sayin'.

Just want to add, Southerners (American Southerners, that is) have often been made fun of for their dialect. Some speak "Dixie" and some speak "Yank" and the two sides do poke fun at each other (and sometimes not so fun).

Language divides are nothing new.

*promote

Re-promoting this video to the front page as a VideoSift Classic. Originally published on Tuesday 27th February 2007 (promotion called by gold star member swampgirl)

Interesting thread here

Steven Pinker was mentioned earlier in this thread. Some of his views on language are disputed in this very interesting piece:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_4_urbanities-language.html

I, for one, agree with Dr. Dalrymple.

I know three languages: English, Classical Latin, and Ancient Greek, and will begin learning German in the fall. Those three languages are not equal in their expressive capacities. As an example, it is awkward and difficult to express parallelism in an English sentence. Frequently, we are reduced to the awkward expression "on the one hand this...on the other hand that...", which is hardly natural. As a result, English speakers tend to omit any explicit mention of parallel ideas, because the way to express them is so cumbersome. Ancient Greek however has the handy expression "men...de", which explicitly notes parallel ideas. Suddenly, parallel ideas can be quickly and naturally expressed and as a result connections that would be omitted and implied in English are explicit in Greek.

Another example, the demonstrative use of adjectives. English does use adjectives demonstratively but such adjectives tend to be very ambiguous. "The land of THE FREE and the home of THE BRAVE"; we understand the meaning but there are many unanswered questions with regards to these demonstrative adjectives. Are these free people or free things? Is it one or many? Are we talking about the concept of the free as a whole or just a specific instance of it? In Greek and Latin, those sorts of questions are answered by case endings, and, in Greek, the definitive article. As a result abstractions based upon purely conceptual ideas are much more easily expressed. If you ever pick up an English translation of Plato, you might be puzzled by references to the Good and the Just and the Noble; all of which are expressed much more lucidly in the original Greek.

The point here is that different languages and dialects provide you with different expressive toolkits. Some of these toolkits are better able to equip one to speak and write articulately than others. I do not know enough about the dialect spoken by Black urban Americans to say definitively whether or not it better equips one to speak articulately. It is however entirely possible that, by not having their speech and language "corrected", young, Black Americans are being handicapped in their ability to express themselves. One who cannot express his or herself is doomed never to break out of the working class.

Wow, I missed this.

I think the point is that there are essentially two English languages in America: the standardized version mostly heard on television, and the version we speak in our respective areas.

I grew up in the sticks, and rednecks have exactly the same problem.

I think we should teach our kids to know the difference between the two languages: the one we were raised with on the farm, or in the barrio, or on the south side, and the one that shows the world that we aren't ignorant.

There are times when it is not only perfectly okay to say "ax" but probably wise. Same with saying "Do what now?" instead of "Beg your pardon?"

funnily enough the use ov 'ax' for ask goes all the way back to Old English:
[quote]the Old English verb áscian also appeared as acsian, and both forms continued into Middle English. The two forms co-existed and evolved separately in various regions of England, and later America. The variant ascian gives us the modern standard English ask, but the form "axe", probably derived from Old English acsian, appears in Chaucer: "I axe, why the fyfte man Was nought housband to the Samaritan?" (Wife of Bath's Prologue, 1386.) It was considered acceptable in literary English until about 1600 [13] and can still be found in some dialects of English including, of course, African American Vernacular English. It is, however, one of the most stigmatized features of AAVE, often commented on by teachers. It also persists in Ulster Scots as /aks/ and Jamaican English as /aːks/, from where it has entered the London dialect of British English as /ɑːks/.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_consonant_clusters

greeeaat post!!!!
south london they say "arks" and "libry"

i totally disagree that this is "wrong" or "bad" or "poor" english. The only reason english got the way it did is because it is so "wrong". To stop that development, to freeze time, is actually more wrong.

My girl learnt "BBC English". I taught her south london. Now she can say "Wha' the fak?" with the best of them.

People quickly forget that english is at root a "low" german heavily influenced by french. if the french hadn't invaded and changed the official language to french, the peasants wouldn't have had 300 years to bastardise and simplify english, making it the perfect language to learn as a second language, precisely because it doesn't have all the crazy endings and cases any more (see scottishmartialarts above)

So, in other words, the english this guy is calling "correct" is actually totally mashed up, and he should probably learn german or lithuanian or greek instead, or sanskrit or something.

But, i totally agree with him that there should be such thing as "business english"... but you should not feel ashamed about your heritage if you learn a different dialect in order to get a job.

by the way, my personal crusade would be typography, and this dude's book cover is first thing on my list for burning.

if you want to be taken seriously in business, you need good graphic design! moron!

*africa

Adding video to channels (Africa) - requested by longde.