wait for it.

Worth it.

yawn - football...

He was great. The women were good dancers, but I was sick to my stomach at the sexualization of their dress and their movements. I know that makes me an old fogey, and yes, there are lots of men and women who think it is just fine.

BUT FUCK ALL. The women were wearing bathing suits, for FUCK'S SAKE. They imitated SEXUAL ACTS for FUCK'S SAKE.

Yes, I'm an old fogey. Don't bother coming here to lecture me on my old fogeyness. I GET A FUCKING OPINION HERE TOO.

Ya'll get to post these videos and have fun with them. I get my own fun of PISSING ON YOUR FUN.

It's even steven, as far as I am concerned. I suffer a little bit, and you suffer a little bit. EVEN STEVEN.

(He was great. Don't like the sexualisation of him, either, but at least he was dressed.)

Yep, I actually said to myself, "strippers..." at one point, which sucks.

I'm torn between being sick of culture that objectifies women, and understanding women's right to objectify themselves.

The other thought I had while watching was: How would the crowd react to a ballet routine?

Turns out the big guy wasn't a football player. He was the choreographer.

Explains his own sexualization.

I get your point, @artician, about women being able to claim their own sexuality -- and their own bodies. I have become a huge fan of Amy Schumer for that very reason.

This kind of crap though -- they aren't claiming their sexuality for themselves, it feels to me. It's some weird "selling" thing where they are the commodity. Besides -- if we are going for equality -- when men sell their sexuality like this, when the only thing we get to see in the media are perfect beautiful men wearing tight clothing and makeup that extenuates their manliness, I won't complain as much.

I think it will be a horribly sad state of affairs that plain men, and fat men, and downright ugly men will no longer be seen on TV. My preference would be that we see plain, and fat, and ugly women in equal proportion to men's roles, and that women have more roles than men's children, wives, mothers, girlfriends.

When the fat guy came out, I sure enjoyed him. And at one point thought -- dang, I'm looking forward to the day a fat woman dancing gets whoops and hollers. (Bless you Melissa McCarthy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Yep, it's good to see how well the future-exotic-dancer classes are working these days. I'm sure several, if not most, of these ladies will have great careers in the field.

Sheesh...

So, you would have been OK if someone talked about the ugly, fat woman dancing with (or without) the over sexualized male cheerleaders? ;-)
Like her....
http://videosift.com/video/Cindy-dancing-off-the-pounds
I don't think that's right.

On a more serious note, if you are only seeing perfect, thin, over sexualized women in the media, I think that's on you for only choosing those types of programs. There are certainly a wide range of body types and beauty on TV and in the movies these days, both male and female. True enough, it's not a true reflection of reality (meaning they put a higher percentage of 'beautiful people' on screen than there are in real life), but us normals are getting air time more and more. 20 years ago, I think Amy Schumer would not have gotten a show (and just think what we would have missed out on).

EDIT: Oh, and the movie you want is Magic Mike.

I honestly don't understand your point about Cindy. I don't get the feeling that she is dancing off the pounds. This feels like a BBW jerk off vid. They do exist.

If she is celebrating her own sexuality, good for her.

As for your claim that I am blind to representations of women in the media, you have said that to me before. You were wrong before, you are wrong now. There are numerous studies that show that women are underrepresented in the media. There are numerous studies proving that women's movie and TV careers are severely circumscribed when they reach a certain age. Without breaking a sweat, I can name a dozen sitcoms starring fat men with slender to average wives and two that star(red) women of size -- Roseanne and Mike and Molly. And this just sitcoms.

I know there is nothing I can say about this subject, because I believe you to be willfully blind about the facts.

And yes, as I always do, I acknowledge that the unreasonable standards of beauty that women are held to is happening more and more to men. I do not think that is a good thing. It is a spreading cancer. Ignoring that is happens to women doesn't stop it happening to men.

And I hate Magic Mike I and II. Stupid plot, stupid dialogue, boring as shit and not enough dancing . The Full Monty now? OH yeah! Fat blokes, skinny blokes, gay blokes, old blokes, ginger blokes..... That is a movie that celebrates life and interpersonal relationships.

That would require men's and women's sexuality to work the same way, and they don't. Sex sells to men but it doesn't to women. Not to the same extent.

I'm sorry, I often fail at getting my point across. My point with Cindy was that it seemed odd that you called him out as a fat guy, but I didn't think you would be OK with the same treatment of a woman. Kind of a 'what's good for the goose' argument is what I was going for.

Certainly average women are UNDER represented, but they are represented more all the time and certainly not absent. Gabourey Sidibe is on Empire, one of the higher rated dramas, just to name one non-skinny actress off the top of my head. It sounded to me like you were saying that ONLY pretty, thin, overtly 'sexy' women get screen time, and I think that's no longer true by far.

I'm sorry you think that about me. I, of course, disagree. If I was 'willfully blind about the facts', why would I discuss anything with anyone ever, or do any research on things I don't know about? I would know it all already and have nothing to gain from anyone. Because I don't always see things as you do does not make me 'willfully blind to the facts' IMO, but you're welcome to your own opinion.

Well, wait, didn't YOU just spread the 'unreasonable standard' about men in your first post when you said " ...when the only thing we get to see in the media are perfect beautiful men wearing tight clothing and makeup that extenuates their manliness, I won't complain as much."? That's how I took that statement, did I misunderstand?

I just thought Magic Mike (1&2) fit your above statement, not in any way did I mean to imply that it's a good movie. ;-)

@newtboy.

I don't see the word fat as anything other than descriptive. That dancer was fat. I am fat. It is just a word. No "calling out" was intended.

What I meant by I wouldn't complain "as much" if men's bodies started being as constrained in the media was my inarticulate attempt to bring a sense of equality to my rant. I agree with you that there are more average looking women on TV. But "more" isn't many. What I was trying to say was -- right now, average looking men are everywhere in the media, way out of proportion to average looking women. That pisses me off. When there comes a time when average looking men start disappearing, my anger over the gender inequality of numbers will fade.

My anger over the under-representation of average-looking won't fade, though. I'll be equally as pissed on behalf of both genders.

I'm glad that you are engaging with me, and much more respectfully than I have engaged with you. I knew I shouldn't use the term "willfully blind." I was peeved and that wasn't fair nor kind. I apologize.

I will stick to "blind," though. The studies are there. Any casual watching of movies and TVs supports my position. So why are you blind, then? The facts don't support your position. Your claim to research is a puzzle to me. What research, when all the research supports my points? I concede your point that it is better than it used to be, but "by far"? No, my friend. Not "by far." Not even close to "by far."

Every little bit helps, though. Thank god for Gabourey and Melissa and Amy Schumer who proudly weighs a stupendous 160 pounds and makes fun of Comedy Central for trying to make her starve herself into stickness.

I remember weighing 160 pounds, when I was in my late 20s. I thought I was fat. Hell, I thought I was fat when I weighed 140 pounds. Now I weigh 240 pounds, and I really am fat. I wish I had Amy back then. Of course, she is a product of the latest wave of feminists who are calling bullshit on... well, the list is long. I'm so proud of her.

And I'm proud of my contribution that made it possible for her to do what she is doing. Yippee for us!

Thanks for such a respectful exchange. My apologies again for my ill-chosen, ill-mannered words.

Agreed.

And @newtboy is right. In the media, men are being pushed into unnatural representations of men's physiques now, in a way they haven't been in the past.

It is the comic book, super hero, action hero thing.

Again selling to men but the sexual aspect of it is skewed differently. More like -- men want to LOOK like them, not penetrate them. Ha. But the destructive message is the same to men as it is to women -- you are not worthy enough if you don't look like this.

Hence my comment said that the makeup of the future would enhance their masculinity, not make them sexually desirable. More manly, to be attractive to women, not to men.

Did you know that all that ab action in the movies is not "natural"? That right before a movie scene is going to filmed, the actor works with his nutritionist and personal trainer for at least a couple of days beforehand? They work to minimize body fat for just that day. Makeup is also used to enhance the ab definition. And that right before the camera rolls, the men do crunches to make the muscles stand out even more?

I say this because I read an interview/article about a man who was working hard to look like those guys in the movies. He was so relieved to learn that his failure to exercise his way into looking like those movie images wasn't his fault.

He didn't know. HE DIDN'T KNOW.

This is not good for men's psyches, goldurn it.

He's not part of the team. That is very disappointing. Thats the one thing that made the video fun.

What'd they film that with a shoulder-mounted camcorder from 1998?

Pretty good and I don't want to hear about it not being a real player because that deflates my joy a little.

Yeah!

...well... I suppose that if I'm being honest, for me that one thing made the video fun in addition to the sexualized dress and movements of the attractive women, simulating sex acts for me to ogle and lech at.

I was highly offended! (that the video seemed to be recorded with a potato rather than a camera, preventing me from enjoying my leching in higher-quality HD glory)

Yep, and they do a workout immediately before filming a scene so that they have what bodybuilders refer to as 'the pump' or the bulky, swollen and/or vasculated vein look. Unrepresentative of the normal human body.

In fact, muscles like that do happen naturally, but usually only for a short amount of time and usually only from the world's top athletes. For example Jessica Ennis one of our sporting greats with cobblestones for abdominals. No one stays in that shape for very long and it's not certain to be good for your health to do that.

On top of that, due to the varied gene pool, people in peak physical fitness can take on all sorts of shapes and sizes.

OK, most people use 'fat' as a derogative word, so I made that assumption. Sorry, Umption, for making an ass out of you.
I totally agree, there's still a long way to go for 'equality' or 'honesty' about average people in the media, farther for women than men, but I still think there's been major progress. That just means I see how backwards it USED to be, I don't mean it to mean there's been enough progress.

I don't understand. My position is that there's been progress in the portrayal of women in the media, you have studies that show that's wrong? I'll read them.

I research factual ideas that I don't understand or have data to support my position on, I see this as an opinion or perception based argument, so I don't see how there might be much data to 'research'.

When I say "by far", I'm looking at historical representations in the past, and IMO there's been major progress (progress that is easier to see when looked at from the outside, I'm sure...just like racism, it's easier to see the progress against racism when you aren't subjected to it daily). Again, that doesn't mean we're there, it only means we've come a long way from the even more backwards representations of the past. I think your 3 examples are proof of that, because they wouldn't have had the opportunities they have today in, say, the 60's.

@newtboy -- Sounds like we have reached agreement and are just discussing nuance now.

What does "by far" mean? There is no answer.

Having several decades on you, and being a woman, I have a different set of experiences to compare "now" to "then." Nobody really cares about my personal experience, though. I certainly don't care enough to go into specifics!

It's all good, yeah?

Thanks again for a respectful exchange.