I've been wondering about the pipeline theory, it would be much easier for them to tie into Iraq's pipeline systems and just go through Turkey, wouldn't it? Who would think a pipeline through non friendly territory would work? The Syrians could sever it at will.
As a distraction, it could work temporarily, but it opens Trump up to more, new, constitutional issues on top of international ones and only distracts from the Russian debacle temporarily.
No matter what, you're correct, it's a total shit show.

Both "the west" and Putin are up to no good in the middle east, that is easily an ugly draw. Watch Turkey implode next.

Read up on "Russia's ally in Syria" if your stomach is up to it.
But then if you support Putin in any way you are probably used to that kind of stuff.

That said US foreign policy is... hard to understand sometimes.

Oh and debts on state level dont work the way you imply, but i understand the propaganda viewpoint. Russians have been trying to be economically independent from "the west" for a hundred years now. Maybe if they tried to be responsible partners it would be better for everyone.

And Im not saying the west should or indeed can do something about Putin. All I meant was that Russia is enemy No. 1 in rhetoric only. Not that important at all.

I may be the only one who thinks like this, but it reminds of Taleb's Thanksgiving Turkey analogy:

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/nassim-talebs-black-swan-thanksgiving-turkey-2014-11?r=US&IR=T

so i have been watching this argument over the "ban" all over my facebook.people really like their little "memes" that offer no real criticism,nor any context,they simply display that persons particular bias.the discussion over this "ban" was not my issue.my issue was with the utter lack of depth of understanding.the evident laziness of those who got up on their little soapbox and sanctimoniously,and self-righteously moralized over a situation that they maybe..maaaybe..spent a total of five minutes on.

until finally my head exploded,and i went into hulk-mode.this was my rant,that i now share with you all:

jesus fucking christ...am i reading these comments correctly?

ok,lets put a little clarity into the mix,shall we?

first of all its not actually a "ban" but an extension to vette refugees further.

sounds reasonable right?

but what is NOT mentioned is that the majority of these refugees have already BEEN vetted,and the process has taken up to two years already.

so stop wetting your pants over brown people who happen to be muslim.

secondly,
let us take a look at the countries whose refugees are being "banned".

notice anything?

each and every one of those countries the american military is deployed in.the CIA has been fighting a proxy war in syria for five fucking YEARS.obama expanded operations into:sudan,somolia,yemen,syria and jordan (another proxy war executed by our radical saudi arabia buddies,who just happen to hate america and promote the most radical of muslim interpretations:wahhabism.they spend BILLIONS of their oil money to open madrasas across the region to light the match of radical islam)

so we,along with russia,turkey and other nations,are bombing the SHIT out of these countries,therefore creating the refugee crisis in the first place,and then we turn around an slap a "ban" on them.

oh,i'm sorry,not really a ban,just an extension to vette them further,because god knows we need more than two years to find out if someone is radicalized.

hypocrisy much america?

thirdly,
and this should make us all VERY nervous,but corporate media has YET to address this little turd nugget.a federal court slapped an injunction on this "ban",because it was not done through the proper channels,but rather through executive order.

and DHS ignored the injunction.
IGNORED it,because who needs "checks and balances" right?
who needs an institution,which was put in place to uphold the law and to restrict a sitting president from over-stepping his authority?
right?

and the fact that the DHS,which is under the DoD,outright ignored a direct order from a federal judge to cease and desist,because trump had overstepped his authority by attempting to use executive orders to circumvent the law.,and this was just an injunction,which really just means "stop!until we further review"...the DHS ignored the injunction.

lets ignore the fact that trump gutted the very agency that would have been the first to challenge his executive order "banning" these refugees.trump literally gutted all the high ranking officials at the state dept.

his press secretary said,and this is fucking laughable..they resigned..ALL of them?
all of them just stood up and resigned?

so it came down to a judge to hold trump accountable,which he did by injunction and an entire dept ignored that federal judges ruling.

now let us look at the countries left off that list.

notice anything?

well well well...would you look at that.
not only do they all purchase large amounts of weapons and military apparatus from us.not only do have they have large reserves of oil that our american companies make a shit ton of money from,but lookie here..trump has business in every singly one of those countries.

coincidence?

oh,and lets not overlook the fact that by executive order trump opened the door to have steve bannon on the national security council!
an unqualified,and with zero experience white nationalist is now on the national security council.

this is unprecedented!

but who cares right?
who needs those protocols,or checks and balances right?

trump is slowly creating his own tiny cabal of extreme loyalists and you people are wetting your pants over some brown people who lost everything,and have spent TWO FUCKING YEARS to find refuge?

this isnt the behavior of a president.
this is the behavior of a king.

yes,other presidents have implemented bans.
this is not a new thing.
what IS new,and some of you nimrods are either willingly,or unwittingly ignoring,is that THOSE bans were in direct response to the US being threatened by a particular group,and THOSE bans had the approval of congress..not a fucking piece of paper that king trump signed.

does america need to reform it's immigration policies?
yes,most certainly.

do we need to have an system in place to help assimilate refugees from syria beyond vetting?

of course,all we have to do is look at germany and see what happens when you allow refugees into your country without proper preparation and a system in place to see just how horrible it can get.

does this mean that every muslim refugee is somehow a terrorist?

well,just look at dearborn michigan.the largest muslim community in america and tell me how many terrorist came from that city? how many muslims were radicalized in dearborn?

is radicalized islam a problem?
yes,of course,who would deny this?

but the causes of radicalization are well understood,and have been well documented,and it is NOT only muslims who engage in terrorism.

really folks,before you start making declarations of certitude without having even the most basic knowledge how our government functions,you need to shut the fuck up.

and for FUCK sakes pick up a book once in awhile,and stop being a gaggle of fucking bed wetters.
jesus...you little fags piss yourselves every time a muslim is even mentioned in conversation.

oh,and before one of you tough guys even think about talking shit to me.
1.i am ex military.so go fuck yourself.
2.my JOB is to debunk bullshit stories and research politics and offer analysis.

so you better think twice before you go off half cocked,because my comment hurt your wittle feewings.your comments are ignorant and they are so lacking in the basic understanding of how this government operates that the only feeling you should having right now is:SHAME.

*edit:this is not directed towards anyone in particular here,but this single focus on trumps ill-thought "ban",and how he did so in such a broad,and general wave of a pen stroke that affected even those HAD gone through the process to get their green cards,visas etc etc is simply buying into the corporate narrative.

and then NOT consider the implications of a gutted state department,the loss of the attorney general and the defiant,disobedience of the DHS in regards to a federal judges injunction.

is unforgivable in it's ignorance.

the implications ALONE should make us all worried.
very very worried.
because it appears trump is reshaping our government into his own little fiefdom of loyalists,willing to defy the everyday governmental operations of checks and balances.

trump is consolidating and concentrating his power by creating his own little cabal of loyalists.that motherfucker has ALREADY put his candidacy on the ballot for 2020.now accepting donations to the highest bidder! feel free to purchase your own piece of the american presidency!

on sale NOW! so act fast! positions are limited!
*prices may vary according to your status and where you reside on the class scale.poor people can simply fuck off.

i realize this speculation on my part,
and i could be wrong.
god..please let me be wrong.

@vil
hey,not a bad analysis there either my friend!

and i agree,the omission of turkey was glaring.

Pretty much interview scripted by Putin personally.

Why the drama about US - russian relations if the russians supposedly are not dangerous and Putin is not evil.

Building a case to sell Poland and the Baltic countries to Putin. Worked like a charm with Hitler and Czechoslovakia before WWII. Poland these days does not even have a border with Russia proper, only with what used to be Koenigsberg. Poland is part of NATO and if Abby and her friend the professor want to give that up then it is them who are pushing us all closer to a war (cold or not).

Ukraine has already exploded. Putin has already taken 1/3 of the country breaking bilateral treaties. Cant get much worse, hard to imagine how the US can get involved, Trump notwithstanding.

Syria - its basically over, except for the humanitarian and human rights catastrophe. Putins ally won - a slightly pyrrhic victory perhaps, but for the meantime Assad stays. Did they level cities or liberate them? Hard to tell the difference. Probably both. That said US involvement in the middle east is a grave shitstorm.

This awesome "analysis" somehow misses the biggest current problem of NATO - Turkey - possibly because Putin does not have a good handle on Turkey yet so its off-limits. Also Pakistan/India and North Korea does not get a mention for the same reason - no chance to push Putins agenda.

NATO might have reassured Gorby it had no intention to spread. It is important to understand that Warsaw pact countries generally accepted Russians as saviours from German occupation, by the 1970s this had changed firmly to perceiving Russians as occupants, political persecutors and economic idiots.

After the economic collapse of the USSR (supposedly somehow caused by Ronald Reagan :-) all these countries needed reassurance that the Russians were not coming back. The only possible reassurance was joining NATO. If that meant breaking a promise made to an ex-representative of a no longer existing country, that is fine by me. If NATO had promised not to spread to Mother Theresa I would be more concerned.

The problem with the Ukraine is that we (EU) made an offer that put them in danger (from Putin) and we could not back that up with real economic or military assistance. Dumb move. But also Ukrainian politics is an incredible mess and simply too many ethnic russians live there giving Putin a strong nationalist base.

not sure I'll ever be able to eat turkey again...

Hipster millennials might have to put up with that shit, but I never had anything but amazing turkey in my youth.

To this day, my Xmas in july (Southern Hemisphere winter) dinners are the stuff of legend.

If you dare impugn my countrymans amazing turkey, you will have to come to NZ and I will cook a fantastic meal for you! That'll learn ya...

Midwest here: other than the plate of turkey, stuffing, and cranberries, this is utterly unlike Thanksgiving to me. Also, I'll echo the "regular" vs cornbread stuffing. If we have cornbread it's as a chunk of cornbread, not stuffing. My wife and I handled our family's meal this year, and we had scalloped corn, dinner rolls, two types of mashed potatoes, a rich mac and cheese, and several types of (non-pecan) pie.

Most of this stuff I've never had for Thanksgiving or heard of it. Like WTF is butternut squash soup? Not only have I never had it for Thanksgiving, this is the first time I've even heard of it. Same for spice roasted carrots. I think I've only had carrots on Thanksgiving if we have a roast instead of Turkey. I've had scalloped potatoes, but never for Thanksgiving. Cornbread stuffing on Thanksgiving? I'm from the deep south and we don't have that for Thanksgiving. Probably because we eat cornbread every other day of the year, so for Thanksgiving we just have regular old stuffing.

I can't believe the dry obviously commercial breastmeat slabs they gave them. Yerk. Turkey must really suck in Ireland to have that sad excuse of a lunchmeat be praised.

I upvoted this despite my strong objection against the message of 'fuck chicken, get turkey'.
Chicken remains delicious for eternity. I shall never fuck chicken.

Well, I did get the count right. I'm even wondering if the "real count" (as in CIA run missions too) is more around 10-14 (depending on how active we are in SA and Africa, besides Somalia; potentially Eastern Europe like Turkey--even if they're in NATO, basically border stuff--and theUkraine--or around it; and SE Asia...it depends on the roles of other Intelligence Agencies AND other NATO countries...) right now...

The argument of "defensive measures" sounds quite different if you take into account:
1) Operation Mongoose, 2) the history of US-led terror campaigns and regime changes in Central America (Guatemala, anyone?), 3) the killing of Soviet technicians on Cuba by Cuban exiles, armed and trained by the US, 4) the century-long almost pathological need by the US to control Cuba. Not to mention of the Soviets had knowledge of the secret deployment of missiles to Okinawa just months earlier.

Don't make JFK out to be a man of peace. He signed National Security Memorandum No 181 in August of '62, which detailed regime change followed by an invasion of Cuba. He put into place a terror campaign against Cuba to bring them back into line. A terror campaign that was resumed a mere week after the crisis by blowing up a factory, causing the death of 400+ on November 8th.

Also, the offer came from Khrushchev, not the other way around, if I remember correctly. And while the Soviets didn't wage a terror campaign against Turkey or Italy once the outdated Jupiter missiles had been removed, we all know what has been done to Cuba over the following decades.

Yeah, the Syrian refugees are mostly either displaced within Syria, or in the surrounding countries (6.6m internally displaced in Syria, 2.7m registered in Turkey, 1m registered in Lebanon, 650,000 registered in Jordan). Then there are 600,000 in Germany and another million or so not registered (and many of those are in Greece).