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How YOU Can Crack the Conformity

newtboy says...

I feel like the 37% conformity number would be larger today, we've become more conditioned to not speak out and seem far more prepared to ignore evidence (or people) we dislike or that contradicts our beliefs than we are to examine them.
People who are willing to speak out to their friends when they think they are wrong often end up with few friends....I would know.

C-note (Member Profile)

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

The Science of Racism

newtboy says...

I'm talking about racism itself, not the tools and advantages used by racists.
By themselves, power inequities aren't harmful like they are when paired with racism. Carter had a power inequality with the entire planet, and never once abused it. He's abnormal, absolutely, but also proof it's possible.
Without the power inequities, racism isn't an issue (most) people care much about....case and point, people don't care that many blacks are racist against whites because they can't do much damage to whites based on disgusting racist morals, (at least not on an institutional level)...so much that many claim it's impossible, that non whites can't be racist because they don't hold power, but that's the exact misuse of the term I'm talking about.
I don't disagree power imbalances matter, I don't disagree those imbalances are used by racists as weapons, and are how institutional racism is born. Imo, it's a bit like saying guns=murder. Guns are often the tools of murderers, so they're related, but aren't the same thing. I know it's nit picking, but how can we have a productive discussion on an important topic if we can't agree what words mean?

Systemic racism is different from the blanket term "racism". Had they used that term, I likely would have agreed with them.

ChaosEngine said:

You’re talking about racism at an individual level, but these days most people acknowledge the more significant problem is systemic or institutional racism.

If some redneck thinks they’re better than a rich black dude, it doesn’t really matter. But it absolutely matters that the system is stacked against black people. The power imbalance is important.

The Science of Racism

newtboy says...

Sorry, lost me when they changed the definition of "racism" to "a set of people holding power over other people."
But that's not what the word means.....

Rac·ism /ˈrāˌsizəm/ noun
1)prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
2)the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Power has nothing to do with it, it's belief in superiority/inferiority based on heritage. Lots of ignorant uneducated poor white trash think they're better than Tyler Perry despite the fact that he has infinitely more power by almost every measure.

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

ajmal (Member Profile)

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

#WalkAway March - Stacey Dash

newtboy says...

Lol. Suggesting people should walk away towards civility?! But she's pro Trump, the least civil politician in living memory?! *facepalm
And in the next sentence she invites all non republicans to a gun fight? Because, civility. *facepalm
And then again, "You're not going to bully us...... and we have the guns. *Cackle* So cowboy up." (Meaning use those guns to bully some liberals, boys)
The lack of self awareness is appalling.
She doesn't seem to even know that she's their token angry black supporter, to be discarded the moment she fails to tow the party line with proper zeal....ask Amorosa.

Republicans - RED WAVE

newtboy says...

Screaming "I'm brave" while white knuckling your gun and pissing your pants over the brown menace doesn't make you brave, not even if you highlight it in bold.

bobknight33 said:

Not just make in in all caps and in BOLD

Republicans - RED WAVE

newtboy says...

Never bet against the stupidity of the American voter.

With voter suppression on the rise, vote invalidation based on as little as an untrained clerk's opinion of a signature or a middle name vs initial on the application and targeting minorities at >4 times the rate of whites, poll closures and inconsistent hours/services (longer hours and more early voting in affluent areas), and voting machines reportedly changing straight party democratic ticket votes to include votes for republican candidates (Cruz) in Texas at least, the results are far from a foregone conclusion.

The only thing conclusive to me is that this election will be suspect and considered illegitimate by whoever loses.
Russia is sure getting it's money's worth. We couldn't be more divided without taking up arms against each other... oh....wait....we are taking up arms against each other based on political affiliation already.

VOTE....and remind Republicans that Trump just gave them 5 extra days, until the 11th, to vote while anyone not registered Republican must vote on or before the 6th. ;-)

What GOD Means To You? - Beautiful People

TED Talk: Whitopia

newtboy says...

Derp?
Comprehension is not your strong suit, is it?

Something I thought I read? Lol. I still can read it, can't you? I quoted it in full, twice.

My position is as strong and clear as my first post, yours changes every turn.

Try
To
Read
Carefully....

Blanket racial statements are wrong and racist.

Same position I held the entire conversation, one you continue to fail to comprehend.

Your attempts to change the subject to try to argue your statement's partial validity is just that, an attempt to change the subject to a completely different argument. I'm not interested, you aren't that interesting or even entertaining.

My point that you continue to miss, intentionally or not, is that blanket statements are wrong (with one exception for the blanket statement that blanket statements are wrong), racial blanket statements are wrong and racist. Sad you won't comprehend, I wonder if you can't.

I withdraw because you aren't debating, you're flailing at changing the subject, which was never racial disparity or possibilities, it's painting any grouping of one race as "X". Again, sad you don't comprehend, but I'm exhausted trying to explain to someone who clearly only wants to argue.

Good day, you may have the last word, replete with more ridiculous accusations I expect. Conversation with you has proven fruitless and utterly unenlightening, now turning to ridiculous insults and pure fantasy.

Drachen_Jager said:

That's what I figured. You just got all riled up by something you thought you read and made an argument based off your misunderstanding (intentional or otherwise).

Now you realize you picked an untenable position. You were happy to address the whole argument when you turned it into a straw man that barely resembled what I'd actually said, then once you realized it actually provided context and made sense you decided to focus on the initial vague statement and interpret in the way you chose completely ignoring the context you'd tried to focus on earlier. That is what's called cherry picking.

Now you've been called on for your fallacious arguments, you withdraw.

Nice.

TED Talk: Whitopia

newtboy says...

Cherry picked!? Lol.

"One white person is pleasant company; 50 white people are a lynch mob waiting to happen.".... (Blanket racial statement)
Drachen_Jager-
"Not entirely inaccurate, though." (Endorsement)

All the other tripe is attempting to change the subject.
You said the blanket statement about whites is not entirely wrong, in some places it's not entirely wrong, sometimes in some places it's not entirely wrong.....
I'm consistent in saying any blanket statement is wrong, and blanket statements about race are invariably wrong and racist.

There is no debate here. You just keep changing your position so you can argue.
Enjoy

Drachen_Jager said:

You really like the sound of your own voice, don't you?

1) You cherry picked and then exaggerated my statements.

2) You toned it down a bit, while still doing both of the above.

3) Now you're just cherry picking.

There's no point debating you if you're just going to be disingenuous about it.

Does a group of white people who are purposely excluding racial minorities seem equally, more, or less prone to racially charged violence than a multi-ethnic group?

And before you bring that black group back into the discussion, remember, odds are (at least in the US) they don't have the range of options the whites do. Most of the time, a group of 50 or more black people forms with no other racial groups present because they're pushed into less desirable areas and excluded from the wealthier side of society. I agree that it's possible that group could be prone to violence, but I'd argue that their reasons would stem more from social inequality, rather than racism. You can't make that same argument for the white group.

TED Talk: Whitopia

newtboy says...

My counter argument....that that's not what you said....and it's still inaccurate.

You said the blanket statement about any/every group of 50 whites being a violent racist gang is not entirely inaccurate. It is.

Now, had you said the blanket statement about every group of 50 whites being a lynch mob was true some of the time, that would still be a wildly inaccurate overstatement, but better. There has been no point in time when every group of 50 white men was a lynch mob.

Had you said what you now say, it's not entirely inaccurate because it's true some of the time in certain specific areas with certain groupings, it would be contradicting the original blanket statement which is inaccurate, so it's still technically incorrect, just like saying the statement about groups of black people isn't entirely inaccurate....it is, because the unwritten but undeniable subject of the statement is ANY group of 50 black/white people, not one specific group in a few specific places at some times.

If you understand that, you understand why it's entirely inaccurate no matter how you wish to interpret the rest.

Is it true that there have been groups of 50 white men that were a lynch mob, yes. That doesn't resemble what you said.

Drachen_Jager said:

Okay, still an exaggeration. How about we take it to mean what it says, instead, "That's true some of the time."

Now, your counter-argument is?



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