*promote

Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Friday, August 29th, 2014 8:52pm PDT - promote requested by eric3579.

Only about half of this is even defensible. I would love to see this guy do police work, because then he would learn something. He needs to do a ride-along.

One question becomes: why do people doing police work end up with bad attitudes, more likely to piss off people? It's because they deal with people under bad circumstances every day. It bleeds over into dealing with all people. I don't condone bad behavior but this fellow makes a lot of assumptions that are simply wrong.

But people love to hate the police and no amount of argument will change their minds. That's the nature of being a police officer.

@lantern53

When you have a country were it is acceptable for SWAT teams equipped with more weapons and body armor than an average soldier in your national military to kick down doors and throw flashbangs into people's homes on the "suspicion" that a small amount of drugs may be in the house, or to intimidate peaceful protestors by raising their weapons towards them, when it is acceptable for the NY city police department to conduct secret surveillance on anyone within three states who happens to be a Muslim in the name of counter-terrorism activities, when it is acceptable to taze people simply because they don't provide identification upon demand, when it is acceptable for the police to go to the wrong house to serve a warrant and shoot the dog that happens to live there then I think it is only natural that people are going to hate on the police. The police in the US (particularly the LAPD) have earned the hate they receive ten times over in my opinion for a lot of the reasons he states in this video.

Like he said, the problem is that you are telling a group of people that they are there to enforce the law. Which isn't a problem until it dawns on some of them that they occupy a position that allows them to actually act above the law and get away with it.

Every cop should have to have a camera attached to their uniform that is recording at all times while they are on duty and that video should be available for a civilian oversight committee to review. The committee should have the ability to punish or fire officers who overstep their authority or misbehave on the job. And the videos should be public record so we can see both the good cops and the bad.

Cameras might be a good idea, but how many people will sit around watching the thousands of normal interactions between POs and civilians?

I agree that busting down doors for marijuana and shooting dogs is a terrible thing and should stop. Meth labs...might be a different story.

I read a book about a cop in the Rampart area of LA...they had runs involving shots fired every week. Under those circumstances you develop a different mindset.

In the book Hell in the Pacific the author talks about how they used to just bayonet the Japanese instead of shooting them..it saved bullets. I for one cannot imagine bayoneting a person, but under those circumstances, otherwise normal people did terrible things.

Anyway, you can't just tase a person because they refuse to provide identification. That is hyperbole.

@lantern53

either knowingly or unknowingly you are actually making my argument of institutionalized "us VS them" mentality.the system itself has become adversarial to a much larger extent than it was 30-40 years ago.

wasnt always this way.
i am sure in your years on the force you can attest to the gradual shift in attitude.

I think the cops would feel that it is 'us v. the bad guys' versus 'us v. everyone else'.

Much of it depends on where a cop trains. If all the other cops have a kick-ass first, ask questions later attitude, the new people will take up that same attitude.

So again, a lot comes from the top.

Small town cops usually are much easier to get along with, but the big town cops are dealing with more stress, more danger, more bullshit....eventually it gets to EVERYONE.

Which is why I say, walk in their shoes for a while and your attitude will be adjusted.

But you yourself have said that everyone is suspect and considered armed and dangerous until proven otherwise...so who is this 'everyone else'?
Small town cops also can be much more difficult to get along with, as they develop the 'us VS them' mentality faster and to a greater severity, being more isolated. That's why they think it's OK to do things like swab pepper spray into the eyes of helpless, immobilized, peaceful protestors.
It sounds like a better idea would be for cops to have to walk in the shoes of a 'suspect' a few times a year...as in having SWAT or other police (not the force that particular cop is part of) called on them and have them and their families treated like the violent armed suspect they treat everyone else as...then perhaps you and they might see the error of your ways (once they've been visited on you and yours, I doubt you would support the violence and angry escalations).

@newtboy
exactly! perspective is everything.
i have to admit,in my own subjective experiences,that small town cops have waaay bigger chips on their shoulders than city cops.

Cops DO NOT always assume someone is armed and dangerous. That's why they get killed so often. Someone comes in to file a report, you don't assume they are armed and dangerous. Little old ladies...not armed and dangerous. Children...not armed and dangerous. Wives of bikers...not armed and dangerous. Shoplifters....not armed and dangerous.

Guy runs a stop sign...you don't assume he is armed and dangerous. But you have to be aware that the possibility exists. Too many cops have paid the ultimate price for not watching the hands.

Of course, sometimes you are wrong. You can find a video of a shoplifter being detained in Russia...he pulls out a gun and shoots 4 people.

As for pepper-spraying people...I carried pepper spray for 30 yrs, never used it.

If a cop is using it on 'non-violent' protesters sitting in the street, it's because his supervisor said 'clear the street, cars have to move through here'. See...because you've already told 20 people to move out of the street and guess what...they didn't do it.

As for being treated violently by other cops, the reason cop's families don't get treated violently is because they generally don't make meth in their kitchen, they don't engage in violent domestic arguments, etc.

I was interested in this claim, so I looked up the numbers.

The population of the U.S. was 310 million in 2011, rising to 316 million last year, and there were 780,000 law enforcement officers.

In 2013 the number of Law Enforcement Officers Killed in the Line of Duty was 29 (excluding accidents), down from 49 the year before.

In 2011 (the last year the CDC have released figures that I could find) there were 16,238 homicides in the U.S., giving a deaths per 100,000 population of 5.2.

If you take the 2013 figures, less police were killed in the line of duty than the normal homicide rate for the country as a whole (3.5 per 100,000 vs 5.2) although in 2012 the number was slightly higher (at 6.3).

There is one slight difference though: Almost all police deaths are due to firearms, so if you compare last year's figures to firearms homicides in the general population (11,068 giving 3.6 per 100,000) you find that in fact police officers in the U.S. are no more or less likely to be victims of homicide than anybody else.

How many times did you 'use' your gun? How many of those times would pepper spray have sufficed?
The instance I spoke of was a completely improper application of pepper spray (with cotton swabs directly to the eyeballs) was to handcuffed people sitting in front of a building (a building with other entrances, so not blocking any business or access I might add). It was all about asserting their power because someone didn't respect their authoratah.
The other recent incident was people handcuffed sitting on a bike path (with other pathways easily used to get around them)...once again, no need for violence other than frustration at not being 'obeyed'...absolutely none.
Thousands of people are treated violently by cops in their own home yearly who aren't making meth, didn't have any argument with anyone, but were simply in the wrong home when the cops either made a mistake or acted on bad information. What about them? That's why I say the cops need to be swatted at least once a year, so they remember what it's like and don't act like asshats.

Please watch this video and tell that guy about how it is just "hyperbole." By the way, the department that cop belonged to is still calling it a justifiable taze.

It may be a reason for their unacceptable behaviour, but it does not excuse it.

well, we've all walked in our own shoes for a while and we've concluded that we don't like being on the receiving end of police power-trip bullshit.

I agree with that.

I don't like being on the end of anyone's power trip.

I understand why people don't like the cops. When I'm doing 76 in a 65, I don't like seeing the state patrol. One gave me a ticket a few years ago. Expensive.

But cops have a job to do and they're expected to do it. If you don't like how it's done, get a lawyer or file a complaint.

Doesn't this fall under voodoo's proscription of 'anecdotal' evidence?

I never fired my weapon at anyone. That is the general experience of the vast majority of police officers. In fact, in 30 years, I can think of about 2 instances of cops on my dept shooting at someone. Any cop who shoots at someone on the job is the exception, not the rule.

Also, pepper spray won't hurt you, it's only an irritation, like being called a fuckface on videosift or trying to have an intelligent conversation with voodoo.

Well, that's good, but firing your gun is not it's only use. I meant how many times did you brandish/aim your gun at a 'suspect' when lesser 'force' would have sufficed? (and how many times did you use it as a club?)

LOL!
Yes, the fact that it won't 'hurt' you is the point, it's only needed to slow you down enough to be controlled. I would think it would work for that purpose FAR better than brandishing a gun, especially since, if it must be used, no one need die with pepper spray, and there's usually backup on that rare occasion that it doesn't do the job (agreed, not always, but usually). It makes sense that less lethal force should be the first thing tried, not an after thought (or not used at all). Cops are paid and trained to face that danger, not to pawn the danger off on the 'suspect' (which often turns out to be an innocent citizen wrongly suspected and feared).

@lantern53

Since it is a video of what I described actually happening and not a story about "a guy I once knew" then it would appropriately be called just "evidence."

you were doing so well until you resorted to ad homs again.

pepper spray can't hurt you? tell that to the people who have died from it: http://articles.latimes.com/1995-06-18/news/mn-14572_1_pepper-spray-manufacturer.

There's a reason it's called less-than-lethal. Suppose you're going to next claim a taser never killed anyone? Look, I can't blame cops for using pepper spray, the risks are far outweighed by the potential benefits, but know your facts.

once again you demonstrate that you are so comfortable with casual violence that you're indifferent to the harm you can do.

jeez, there's more casual violence in the average flag football game than there were in my 30 years of LE experience.

Also, you don't use your gun as a club, get real.

Dying from pepper spray? Unlikely, but people have died from being handcuffed. I've seen dead people who died while taking a nap, people in their 30s. There is risk in everything. Kids die from choking on breakfast cereal. Whattya gonna do?

I remember picking up this dude at the county jail, had some kind of breathing apparatus on him. I put him in back of my cruiser and the a/c was barely working and wasn't reaching the back seat at all, real hot day. I'm watching him in the mirror and he's fading. I thought, good god, this guy could die back there. So I pulled off the freeway and opened the door. 'Get in the front!'. I put the vents on him and he started coming around and before long we were talking football.
Of course, you won't see any video of that.

oooo, and now more anecdotes.

For a brief moment there you were actually having a constructive discussion.

A brief moment.

*talks
*controversy

Adding video to channels (Controversy, Talks) - requested by messenger.