There can be no heartbeat without a heart, which takes another 6-8 + weeks to form chambers, and 16 or more more weeks to develop valves and functional muscle tissue and actually pump blood. There is no heartbeat at 6, 8, or even 10 weeks by any definition, there's a twitch in the place a heart will one day develop.

This abdication of the state's duty to private citizens has been ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court when states allowed churches to veto liquor licenses and bars challenged them and won. The government cannot deputize the populace to enforce a law, nor can it pay them with the state imposed fines even if they call it a judgement...You cannot pre set a judgement amount in a law for a civil case.

There has been no medical breakthroughs that change the standard, if it can't survive outside the womb, it's not viable. Period. End of discussion. That's what not viable means.

"Mutually incompatible"!? Nonsense. Legally there is no baby to be harmed, that's the law this is trying to end run around. Covid harms everyone. It's a paper tiger argument, a total fake red herring, there is NO public health danger if a woman has an abortion, you cannot catch abortion. Covid you can catch, and spread, and it's deadly to actual, real, fully cooked legal people AND embryos.

One wonders if the Texas legal system has nothing to do and had this passed as job security...because it's the only kind of civil case they'll be hearing now.

One also wonders if the state has too much money, because there's apparently they weren't smart enough to include exemptions for the state if they help facilitate any abortions by, let's say, offering bus service, maintaining roadways, or supplying electricity and water to the buildings. Any of these is grounds to sue them for $10000. If you live in Texas, file your case now before there's no money left and they rewrite the law to just target liberals.

They'll have to defend every case filed costing another $10000+ in legal fees (they'll have to pay the plaintiff's costs too). Pair that with the companies fleeing the state to avoid boycotts, Texas is going to be so poor they become America's Hati soon. Yee haw!

How long have you been doing ultrasound?

How many Ultrasound sonographers have you talked to?

Please enlighten the community.

Using my words? from some other posted Video.

Fake news personnel also at this site?

Why should I be surprised.

I don't have to do ultrasounds to read the biological foetal evolution of a prehuman. There's no question here about the facts. That's the advantage of being able to read a text book.

Do you think ultrasound technicians and sonographers are doctors? Think again.

Mom worked at the biggest hospital in Texas for years, so I've met more than I counted. I also met doctors.

If you could read a text book, the science isn't in question. A tube that perhaps slightly twitches but has no mechanism to pump fluid is not a heart, it's a nerve signal from the cluster of cells that eventually will become a brain to pump when one is there months later, nothing more at 6 weeks. Calling it a heart beat is lying. There's no heart to beat. It's like calling a wire and battery a computer because computers use wires and electricity. The rest just isn't there.

Nazi killed people
Abortion kills people

This bill helps stops the killing.

So how is this comparable ?

Having the father / grand parents a legal recourse against murdering doctors is not
not a bad thing.

Don't think the Uber driver or school teachers desiring to cash in on this.

No, he paraphrased what your actions/posts say.
Edit: granted, that's not really allowed, and yes I'm guilty in the past of the same crime.

"Fake news" is the pablum of the mentally feeble, a mantra you chant any time reality creeps in and forces even the most miniscule self examination. Pretending it's real lets you ignore reality, something you need to do because facing reality and your own positions and their effects would drive you to suicide, since your positions are not just harmful but deadly to your children. Every time you invoke "fake news" you're really just saying "this is too much for my feeble brain to understand or accept so I'll just rudely deny it so my fragile world view isn't challenged by facts or knowledgeable people."

Nazis still kill people...they're in your political party shooting cops, crowds, bombing buildings, starting forest fires, stockpiling Molotov cocktails, and trying deadly violent coups.

Abortion only kills people when there's a problem, and this law is guaranteed to cause more problems and kill more people. When abortions are done above board in well regulated clean medical offices, people don't die, nothing is killed beyond potential.

You're right, it's not comparable. Nazis are evil murderers you stand with, abortion is a medical procedure you ignorantly oppose.

Your English failed so badly that your last two sentences are completely unintelligible....wanna try again? There's no fucking way in Hell you're really an adult American with this broken, halting, failing first year English grammar, comrade. You better erase your post, if your handlers see this, you'll be going to Solovki for reeducation.

Reading a book and actually seeing the development day in and day out are NOT the same.

You don't think Ultrasound sonographers don't know what a heart best is?

Hate to burst you bubble. These techs scan , write up the report and tell the Dr. The techs also determine the age of development and also the estimate of due date. They also tell tell the Dr if you have a still born. The Dr then tells the patient.

The Dr reviews the report and look at the images if needed.

You mom worked at the hospital and you met a lot of doctors. That does not make you a DR nor you mom. Also were these
OB/GYN doctors
Rad Doctors
Oncology Doctors
Cardiac Doctors


Just because you mom work at a hospital doesn't mean much.

Try again tool boy.

If people who see it daily call it a heart beat, then clearly reading a book is better, because you can't get a heart beat without a heart, and a valveless, chamberless tube that doesn't pump isn't a heart. If you look at a straw day in and day out and you start to see it as a heart, actually seeing it is worse. If you go to school and say you see the heart at 6 weeks, you fail.

Jebus. Double negative and heart best? Are you drunk?

I do think +-90% of them know, 10% believe they hear a heart beat because they can now detect a faint nerve signal, but no heart. That 10% are fooling themselves to avoid contradicting their beliefs with medical fact.

What bubble? Did I say they didn't? That doesn't make them doctors. Lab techs do the same...mri techs, even x-Ray techs in some places. Would you let a tech determine your treatment plan, or even diagnose you without a real doctor involved? They aren't even nurses, they know how to run the machine and spot certain results for further investigation/treatment. The doctors review and often edit the reports. If a report of a 6 week pregnancy talked about the heart, that tech would be let go for incompetence. There is no heart.

Dumb fuck, you asked me how many I've talked to. I answered, with an explanation of why I’ve met many. Now you act like I brought it up to say I know some, so I am one?! Are you on meth?

Mom worked at Texas Children's hospital and Methodist hospital in Houston, so yes, those specialists and many many many more, and being curious I asked them lots of questions.

Because my mom worked at a childrens hospital means I knew sonographers and ultrasound techs, there's a difference, which was your question. Jesus, you're like Ritalin kid from smoking aces....to yourself you're fighting this amazing fight with spinning kicks and flips so amazing it gets you hard, but to everyone else you're flailing wildly and are just annoying, not a dangerous opponent to be feared or respected.

Any Tech knows when there is a heart beat( except those in training or just out of school).
And they will tell you it occurs around 6 to 10 weeks. Fully developed or not a beat is a beat.

When finger develop they are stubs but still they are fingers.

Techs are not Drs but they relay 100% on what the tech say and write.

Not talking about Techs giving a treatment plan ( straw man argument).
Techs report and Dr give treatment options.
( hence high malpractice insurance costs).
Dr may edit and add to the report. IF they spot an error then can edit.



So you mom dragged yo to work and you somehow you became as knowledgeable at them.

My sister used to be a butcher and brought her daughter to work often. This does not make the daughter a butcher or even remotely knowledgeable of the subject.

You bringing up the many any many DR yo u met is irreverent to the argument.


So reading a book makes you more knowledgeable than the ones who see for themself day in day and day out.
( bet you supplement this with lots of YouTube's)

{{If I listen to lots and lots of music and read a few books This will make you smarter than an actual song writer? }} Good logic bud.



Elitist Tool:
What actual hands on knowledge do you fucking have about this topic?

That is a nerve pulse, not a heart beat, and any competent tech knows the difference.
A pulse starts at 6-10 weeks, the heart takes over 20 before it's a heart. Any tech that sees a heartbeat at 6 weeks needs retraining....There's NO FUCKING HEART TO BEAT!

No, doctors do not relay 100% of what the tech writes...have you ever had one?! I've had a few. They also edit, even reject reports that have errors. Claiming they see a heart beating at 6 weeks would be an error, a grievous error.

Mom dragged me to work and I met ultrasound techs (among other medical professionals). That's what you asked, how many I had met. You fucking asked, moron. Why did YOU ask how many I had met if it's irrelevant?! You're a fucking two year old.

Take your meds....you've lost your fucking mind, you're over triggered, and you took too much meth last night. Try again when you can string a rational thought together.

You're talking about techs knowing more than the doctors because they see the scans daily....but they don't see hearts on those scans, they see a microscopic twitch in a few cells.

Hands on knowledge?....more than you, I passed biology (up to advanced molecular organic chemistry, you never even dissected anything I would guess)). Those with hands on knowledge and medical training say there's no heartbeat with no heart, and no heart until over 20 weeks after conception.

If you are implying I I should shut the fuck up because (you assume) I have no first hand experience seeing 6 week old cell clusters twitch, why are you talking about anything? You not only have no experience, but you have no knowledge, no education, no clue.
I've at least seen multiple videos of such "twitches", which is all one sees in person, and there's barely even a tube, there's not one structure of a heart formed, and there's absolutely not a functional heart for months by anyone's theory.

Triggered much?!

Covid kills people. Forced vaccinations stop the killing.

Since you're making the argument that the government should exercise total control over citizen's bodies for the health and safety of one potential human, obviously you now see you must support them taking minor control over your body to force vaccinations for the health and safety of millions of actual viable living people and the nation as a whole, right?

Certainly you wouldn't be so hypocritical as to force dangerous, life changing, sometimes deadly options on mothers but not a pin prick to save multiple actual lives, the economy, and the national sanity....Would you?

Changing the subject.

Newt lost his elitist voice?

An aside. One you can’t answer?

I had already responded to your last. Has wittle Bobby lost his uneducated dishonest voice? It would be more productive to debate science with Jethro Clampet.

You’re in rare form today, can’t keep track of your own arguments, of who hasn’t answered who, of what your standard is.



So I’ll ask again, without a hint of changing the subject but as a separate side question that only takes a yes or no from you, you aren’t so blatantly hypocritical that you are both anti choice and anti mandatory vaccination, are you?

..then you can get back to not responding to my last question…If you are implying I I should shut the fuck up because (you assume) I have no first hand experience seeing 6 week old cell clusters twitch, why are you talking about anything?

What was you question of me? One gets tired of you tangent straw man arguments and can get lost in you incoherent gibberish.



Also reading some books and tagging along with you mom at the hospital does not make you a Doctor or any medical official.



Your medical degree is in what?
Bullshitology?



Yet you haven't responded to this simple question...

So AGAIN

Elitist Tool:
What actual hands on knowledge you you fucking have about this topic?


Or is this you response...
You saw a 6 week old cell clusters twitch ..


Was this a YouTube or your spent jizz left in the fridge as a "scientific" study?

Jane you ignorant slut…..MY tangent straw men!?! Lol!!! You mean like how many ultrasound techs I’ve known!? Or what my personal hands on experience is….as if one can only have an opinion on abortion or knowledge of the stages of development if they are ultrasound techs. Aaaaaahahahaha. That must be good meth.
Ok, here….again…. Illiterate Fool: you aren’t so blatantly hypocritical that you are both anti choice and anti mandatory vaccination, are you?

No one said it makes one a doctor besides you. Another paper tiger you set up for yourself. It’s not clever, you aren’t “winning”, you need your Ritalin.

My degree is general science, so I’m actually qualified to answer general science questions like this one. What’s your degree in again?

Bob, if you won’t or can’t read, there’s no point repeating myself again….Your question, replete with grammatical errors, was answered multiple times above. Reading comprehension is obviously not a strong suit for you.

In short, my hands on knowledge is decades of science education well beyond biology, necessarily including basic medical education (like topics like this), a continuing curiosity about how things work that keeps me up to date on most mainstream science including medical breakthroughs and quackery like your arguments, and ties to the Stanford medical community because my mother edited all their publications for decades, forwarding me the most interesting advancements they made, often before they were published.

Now, again I ask…what’s your personal experience on this topic? I’m absolutely certain it’s less, there’s no way an 8th grade dropout works in medicine. You have no experience and no education, no understanding, no knowledge at all, just what bubba dun told you down to da boars nest.

It’s what there is at 6 weeks. The whole thing is less than a newt in the egg, no limbs, 1/2 the size of a pea….the heart isn’t formed at all. Get someone to read for you, watch a film, this isn’t hard info to find if you remove your head from your anus. Look at real medical sites, not anti abortion propaganda sites, they lie, exaggerate, and obfuscate.

Hee Hee.

It's just good fun. You pretend to know facts, so why not fight mud with mud?

Look, you're answer is no answer. Calling it murder makes you look unconscionably devoid. It has no merit. Also is an insult to the whole matter.

If life - other people's unformed, potential children - matter that much...then why not support Democrats?

They are the only ones seriously taking about national healthcare. NO GOP PLAN - isn't that true?

If you w/the holy staff, want children to be carried to full term, then prenatal care is a necessity. Data shows that the bulk of terminations are single parents with children. As a citizen of the USA, you KNOW that's tough enough. But no guy, no religious fart, that talks about "personal responsibility" yet offers no aid is sewer fodder.

Even adoption is a lie. Poll anyone at your church (if you do that sort of thing and are not independently enlightened) how many have adopted, bet it's not that much...if any.

It's a hard sell, amigo.

But do know there are foreseeable unintended deaths coming because of this bill if left in place - GO DOJ!!! Blissful Bob and his ilk will claim it did no such thing either.

Mean you no ill will (the devil you say) but your intent isn't being served by this notion that banning means solving.

[BTW: do you remember when the state of FL and Jeb Bush lost ~10,000 children in the foster care system? Sometime later he glowingly said they accounted for 99% of them? Meaning 100 kids could have been sex slaves, dead, or dating Matt Gaetz.]

Moving this video to luxintenebris's personal queue. It failed to receive enough votes to get sifted up to the front page within 2 days.

@noseeem

Yep I'm shitty with grammar and spelling But I can fix anything and hold my own in front any Dr. or C suite within my field of expertise.

Personal experience? BSEET Penn State.
33 years as a medical Field service Engineer.


28 years working for Global conglomerates and 5 years in house at UNC Chapel hill NC.
I’ve been with Siemens Medical and General Electric most of my career.
I’ve serviced/ install Cathlabs, Vascular labs, Rad/ RF rooms and Mammo rooms. Plus others.


Last 20 years installing / servicing Medical Ultrasound.
This includes Cardiac, Radiology ultrasound and Woman’s health, OBGYN
I’ve seen more ultrasounds hearts and heartbeats than you can imagine..
Being Hippa compliant, I look at images for quality and for servicing.

All the Techs I talk to say the same . Heartbeat starts about the 6 to 10 week of pregnancy
And yes there are images that capture this along with all the other images and measurements. Doppler is used for this.

Per quick Google search
When does the heartbeat show on ultrasound?
A fetal heartbeat may first be detected by a vaginal ultrasound as early as 5 1/2 to 6 weeks after gestation. That's when a fetal pole, the first visible sign of a developing embryo, can sometimes be seen. But between 6 1/2 to 7 weeks after gestation, a heartbeat can be better assessed.

Your fucking up the wrong tree today. Go back to being the big guy at you high school.

You can even do this at home

Really...You saw a HEART beating at 6 weeks. You're a liar....not a new revelation btw. You've been a proud liar for years.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists also has said in a statement, “What is interpreted as a heartbeat in these bills is actually electrically-induced flickering of a portion of the fetal tissue that will become the heart as the embryo develops. Thus, ACOG does not use the term ‘heartbeat’ to describe these legislative bans on abortion because it is misleading language, out of step with the anatomical and clinical realities of that stage of pregnancy.”

I do not believe you work in as a medical device service tech (which wouldn't include ANY medical training, now would it) but can't spell or read above a third grade level. It's just not believable....not that it would indicate any medical knowledge if true.

Again, seeing a PULSE is not seeing a heartbeat. If they say they saw a heart at 6 weeks, report them, they're delusional. What they call it has nothing to do with reality....many nurses are anti vaxers Q followers, being in the medical field doesn't make one reasonable, logical, or right. Techs aren't doctors....and doctors fudge the truth to avoid conflict. Press them, they'll admit there's no heart, unless like you they prefer a comfortable lie to the hard truth, and believe it's better to tell a lie than a truth that might hurt your position. Probably shouldn't have admitted you think that.

Here's a citation for you to dismiss as fake news....https://www.factcheck.org/2019/07/when-are-heartbeats-audible-during-pregnancy/

Btw, I stand corrected, except for changes in the muscle tissue, the basic heart is apparently formed by week 13, not 20. The muscle tissue matures around week 20. I'm always willing to admit when I'm wrong, unlike some.

So I'm guessing you flunked Med school because you have perfect penmanship.

Fun Fact
Doctors' sloppy handwriting kills more than 7,000 people annually

By the way, you spelled grandmother wrong.

You hear it. It is still to small to see at these early dates.

You see it when it is large enough to see.

But hey keep reaching for some flickering electric pulse.

Un like you I don't just sit around and read this and that and claim to be the expert on ALL things. Book smart is 1 thing. Its not real world.



My Education and career. Like I can make this shit up. I've worked in more hospitals and clinics than you can ever imagine. I've worked in other areas than mentioned. Ive worked in the morgue, I've watched hundreds of cath and vascular cases. I watched 1 patient die on the table. I worked in rooms with just recently dead patients. Ive assisted in replacing CT tube, calibrating Nuc Med cameras. It goes on and on.




You are proven Way the FUCK wrong.

Newt you clearly out of you depth. Walk away in shame now and keep at least a little dignity.

Your an Elitist TOOL who "knows" all the right answers, even when they are wrong.


Few thing I know for certain. I will be 60 in November. Tesla stock will 4X within 4 years and turn my 1 Million into 4 million dollars. And "you" will still believe that you are the smartest.

In 4 years I wound even remember you.
Newt who?

Lol....and we're supposed to think you know about it? Then why don't you? Why didn't you just read instead of eating more shoe? (By putting your foot in your mouth again)

"Beating occurs earlier, at the very end of the fifth week or at the start of the sixth week, when the heart is immature and lacks most of its identifiable features, including its iconic chambers. The heartbeat shows up around this time or shortly after as a flickering motion on an ultrasound. Only later, after the 10th week or beyond, is a heartbeat audible with a Doppler fetal monitor."

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/07/when-are-heartbeats-audible-during-pregnancy/
https://www.webmd.com/baby/fetal-doppler#1
Derp.

Now that again you're proven wrong, having it backwards as you so often do, with citation and medical fact contradicting you, can you admit it? Doubt it, small men never can admit they're wrong. I admitted my mistake just one post ago.

If you expect you won't remember the person you've spent a decade arguing with in just four years, you must already be showing signs of Alzheimer's. I'm so sorry.

Edit: claim to be an expert!? When did I claim to be an expert? I'm pretty certain that's another delusion, but I'm certainly open to proof, which should be easy to come by if you aren't making things again. By tomorrow please. The only thing I'm an expert about is being a seriously cheap bastard.
This is pretty basic stuff, not advanced or really in contention medically, only as a political ploy...no expertise needed to know there's no heart at 6 weeks, or to read that you see the twitch 4-6+ weeks BEFORE it can be heard by dopler...a basic fact which I remind you that you, self designated expert in the field, got backwards. You were so sure about it too.

Believe it or not, all human beings start out as tiny anuses. In the first few weeks after fertilization, you're nothing more than a small group of cells, called a blastula. ... While that may sound like a pretty fancy word, the blastopore is actually just a miniscule anus. The rest of your body develops from there.Jun 14, 2019

Since @bobknight33 is now claiming he's answered this,

"bobknight33 says...
I answered this other post.
Facts are correct.
Your were proven wrong over and over."

I thought I'd double check....nope. Silence.