They legalized sex and I hardly do it at all.

Yeah, but what about the prison industrial complex, who's thinking of them.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

I like the cut of your jib sailor.>> ^undefined:

Yeah, but what about the prison industrial complex, who's thinking of them.

I heard some "expert" on NPR saying that whatever your preconceived notions of drugs you'll be proven right when you look at the data from Portugal. For example if you are against decriminalization you'll see that Portugal proves you right and it shouldn't be decriminalized and vice versa.

Now I don't know if that's true or not and I'm considering the source the bastion of the intellectual class of state managers. I'd like to see someone parse this report down to something more palatable.

Yeah, but if they legalize marijuana more people will do it, but that doesn't matter, that's a GOOOD thing!!


And anyway, if America legalized heroin I think the exact opposite would happen compared to the Netherlands - I mean did you guys watch the Black Friday opening morning clips?! That's the true face of America, baby and that shit wasn't even free!

One point that always seems to be missing from talks about this subject is about the false propaganda regarding risks for individual drugs. With drugs legalized, the government *should* lose initiative to maintain the lies that are funded by government money. Anyone remember the emotional trite of "This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs", as they crack an egg into pan?

Having real information about the risks instead of made-up bullshit empowers people to make decisions based off of facts instead of emotional arguments. I've personally turned down some experiences because I didn't like the risk when combined with my personality type (or just the risks by themselves.) But man, I had to really search for information. Luckily I found some sites that try to fill this knowledge gap for safety purposes.

>> ^curiousity:

One point that always seems to be missing from talks about this subject is about the false propaganda regarding risks for individual drugs. With drugs legalized, the government should lose initiative to maintain the lies that are funded by government money. Anyone remember the emotional trite of "This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs", as they crack an egg into pan?
Having real information about the risks instead of made-up bullshit empowers people to make decisions based off of facts instead of emotional arguments. I've personally turned down some experiences because I didn't like the risk when combined with my personality type (or just the risks by themselves.) But man, I had to really search for information. Luckily I found some sites that try to fill this knowledge gap for safety purposes.


Well said. Let people make an INFORMED opinion.

It isn't the decriminalization that reduces use, it's the treatment... but of course people are much less likely to seek treatment if they're afraid of being prosecuted for possession.

I do like the "free heroin" thing. It completely destroys the profitability for dealers so there's no incentive to market it to new users. People can try it if they want (and in a safe environment), but they have to make a conscious effort rather than coming across it randomly on the street or through a friend.

I don't really like the taxation argument though. If there is a profit to be made then there will always be a reason to persuade more people to use a given drug, and there is additional cost incurred by the tax collection and product regulation. I say make it legal, leave it alone, and be happy with cutting a huge chunk of enforcement spending out of the local and federal budgets.

>> ^Psychologic:

It isn't the decriminalization that reduces use, it's the treatment... but of course people are much less likely to seek treatment if they're afraid of being prosecuted for possession.

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised liberal Cenk didn't make that point explicitly. The reduced usage comes from government-provided healthcare, not the decriminalization itself. The real thing these countries did was decide to spend less money on prisons, and more on social welfare, to positive results.

I should clarify that in the Netherlands you can't just apply for free heroin, you need to be a registered addict in one of the cities that runs these clinics. These people can get small accommodation and go to rooms where they can use their drugs.

This has helped in a multitude of ways. The addicts no longer need to resort to begging/stealing to fund their drug habit, so thefts have gone down substantially. Also because these addicts don't need their whole day struggling to get their next fix, and they can use it in calm places, this has led to a lot of addicts calming down, thinking about there problems, and applying for treatment and rehab.

Many of these people have reintegrated into society and even found some jobs. It's been so successful that we had to close a few treatments centers in Utrecht because there weren't enough addicts anymore.

>> ^vaporlock:

Yeah, but what about the prison industrial complex, who's thinking of them.


I thought of the exact same thing. It will likely never happen here because prison is big business. It's why we have more people in prison here than many of the most populous countries in the world.. combined. Because those prisoners are making some folks a great deal of money off government subsidies. As well prisoners make a huge variety of things for a few cents a day. It's back-door slavery at work.

Some use the catch phrase 'corporate welfare' when discussing legal issues that would mean the loss of billions for various corporations. It's why nobody will reduce defense spending, because it would put some huge companies (that spend billions on shit that doesn't work), out of business. Sure that would mean the loss of a few thousand peoples jobs but for the government it is more important that those billionaires that line congress' wallets don't get mad.

>> ^shagen454:

Yeah, but if they legalize marijuana more people will do it, but that doesn't matter, that's a GOOOD thing!!


Sorry to double post but I wanted to reply to this statement hehe.

Whether it would be a good thing or not is besides the point really. The amount of marijuana use would actually drop, and quite significantly. It's because using the drug is illegal (though decriminalized in a number of states, including mine thankfully) that makes its use popular.

It's the same with alcohol. In the 20's when prohibition came into effect alcohol use spiked dramatically after a year or two. It suddenly became cool to drink because it was illegal and use spiked, especially amongst women and even children. The simple fact that it was illegal made it more popular. And for that reason if just pot was made fully legal, we would actually see use go down.

@cybrbeast

Thanks for your comment. I thought that is how it would work out, but it is very nice to hear it spoken from someone who has seen the effects in their country.

>> ^Xaielao:

Whether it would be a good thing or not is besides the point really. The amount of marijuana use would actually drop, and quite significantly. It's because using the drug is illegal (though decriminalized in a number of states, including mine thankfully) that makes its use popular.

I'm not so sure marijuana use would drop if it became legal. I can't think of anyone I know who smokes it because it's illegal, and I seriously doubt they would quit because the legal penalties go away. I do, however, know multiple people who currently avoid it because of its legal status. Maybe I'm wrong, but the people I know who smoke do so because they enjoy it and it isn't negatively impacting their lives.

On the other hand, I do think legalization would reduce the use of other drugs. Weed is what brings many to the black market, therefore providing access to more addictive drugs that they may otherwise not have been looking for. If they can grow cannabis themselves, or know someone who does, there's less chance of them experimenting with harder drugs.

>> ^curiousity:

One point that always seems to be missing from talks about this subject is about the false propaganda regarding risks for individual drugs. With drugs legalized, the government should lose initiative to maintain the lies that are funded by government money. Anyone remember the emotional trite of "This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs", as they crack an egg into pan?
Having real information about the risks instead of made-up bullshit empowers people to make decisions based off of facts instead of emotional arguments. I've personally turned down some experiences because I didn't like the risk when combined with my personality type (or just the risks by themselves.) But man, I had to really search for information. Luckily I found some sites that try to fill this knowledge gap for safety purposes.


You can't mention websites without linking us! Give us the informed drug sites!