Also in 2018: Stacey Abrams, down by 3% with 99% of votes counted. "Count all the votes."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a8uoKHxdxs

What's your point, that Democrats are consistent in their position that every vote counts and should be counted even when they're losing, but Republicans aren't?

Yes, Republicans are hypocrites, but so are the Dems if they aren't willing to wait for the process to finish before insisting the race is over. We managed to wait till December back in 2000 to find a resolution, that ended up fine. If they were consistent they wouldn't care about lawsuits or complain about the GAO not helping the Biden transition.

In reality, there's no other choice since there's zero chance the current president will concede or cooperate with a smooth transition.

Once there's no chance remaining votes uncounted or contested could sway the election, a point we are well past, any challenges are academic and couldn't change results, so there's no reason to refuse to acknowledge that fact, especially when it's spurring right wing terrorists to act and dividing the nation, another point we past days ago. The obstinance is harmful to the nation and our institutions, like Trump is trying to burn the government down on his way out the door. No democrat has ever done this in similar circumstances. There's a theory that he's only doing it to bilk his followers out of more money towards his "legal defense fund" that really goes to pay off campaign debt and directly into his pockets with a small portion paying lawyers like Giuliani to lose cases. He's millions in debt there too, and it becomes his personal debt when he's out of office....with near a billion due next year, he needs every penny he can con them out of.

Normally the clear winner would be being brought up to speed on things like covid response and international relationships even if they weren't declared the official winner yet. (Edit: They would also have access to top secret intelligence all previous presidents (except Trump) use to vet their cabinet, being denied that information severely hampers Biden's ability to properly vet them, holding up his nominations. Thanks to Trump's disastrous covid response, Biden needs to be fully ready to change policies day one, it's life or death for 1000+ Americans every day he's delayed.) This time, with a petulant toddler throwing a tantrum for the next 2+ months, that might not help, because there's no telling what damage he might do before then. Biden is just making his own plans instead, preparing to start work day one no matter what dumpster fires Trump sets. That said, this obstinate denial of the results and sewing division, making up and repeating baseless charges to discredit the election (looking at you) have real world disastrous consequences and weakens the state of the union. It's clear the plan was to rely on the Trump appointed judges to rubber stamp the baseless claims and hand him a win. So far it hasn't worked, but it could. That's why we should care about the dozens of frivolous lawsuits, if his judges decide to be the lackeys he expects them to be, they could actually steal the election in court....but it would spark nationwide unrest if not insurgency.

Frothing at the mouth hyperbole like that will do more damage than Trump can manage in two more months. The country has survived 46 months, it can manage another two. I don't think a single state has certified their election totals. Sure, it's tradition to accelerate the process, but Trump has thrown all tradition out the window, so why make a big deal this time? There is zero evidence to believe anyone with power that matters will support him if the court challenges do not go his way. Calm down and wait a month and this will pretty much be over. I think your notion of "zero chance the president will concede" will be proven wrong by January. He may say the election was stolen for the next four years(Where have I heard that before?) but he will leave the White House on Marine One.

Frothing at the mouth and hyperbole? Hardly. Are you miffed I called you out on spreading false accusations designed to invalidate an election result or something? Can you give one example?

More damage than Trump can do in two months?! Now who's hyperbolic? Please.

250000+- of us haven't survived 46 months. Over 1 million more have been utterly devastated physically and financially, many permanently.

Trump threw tradition out the window, not America. We are itching to get back to some traditional civility, rationality, and sanity.

No, there's 4 years of evidence indicating most republicans up to and including Moscow Mitch and Barr will support him until he fires or turns on them no matter what. The best we can hope for there is the system still being stronger than one flailing party, but it's certainly not as strong as it was 4 years ago.

Ok, how about zero chance he'll graciously concede or accept that he lost, he might concede that he's been cheated out of winning, but that's not a concession it's an accusation.

Where have you heard that before? Don't say Gore, he never said that although it was nearly true.

He will leave, it might be kicking and screaming like he said he would. It could conceivably be in the back of a cop car.

The difference between the past and present, republicans and democrats, is that we've never had a president openly claim the entire system was rigged, broken, stolen.

I have no problem with due process on either side, but name calling and baseless accusations are not helpful. Quietly and politely take your grievances to the appropriate channels. What Trump is doing is in a nutshell, destroying people's faith in democracy.

Note that if you think this is a partisan answer, this works for either side in any context.

"Water seeks its own level." Even swamp water.

Since when it's the opposition/challenger that got the means to rig the system and NOT the incumbent in power?

If there's cheating, you can bet your house it's Trump & the Republican that's cheating in this election.

Trump's been saying the system's rigged since 2015. Yeah, in HIS (and the Republican's favor) due to the decades long gerrymandering of the districts. A true leader, when he/she sees something wrong (Covid-19, voting system, etc.) they'll try to fix it. What did Trump do to "fix" this? He only accuses & blames with no basis of proof and he made it harder for people to vote because voter suppression works in the Republicans' and his favor. Duh.


All the vote rigging and they still lost. Sore, sore incompetent loser cry babies.

Why should Trump concede? Biden has not officially won.

Media does not officially call the election.
Let it play out out.


? you want all votes counted. Even illegal votes?

Trump will have to turn around 5 states.
Tall order, Sit back and let it play out.

Because there's zero chance he can win, and every hour of delay in allowing the transition to proceed 50 Americans die.

No, they report the official count. Reasonable people understand when it's impossible to swing the results and, for the good of the country, concede and facilitate a transition. All the silly challenges can continue after that, they don't stop counting because one candidate concedes, and they don't just toss out court cases either.

Since there's no evidence of illegal votes, that's not worth responding to. Votes are vetted in multiple ways before being counted. Thousands of dead people, non citizens, and fraudsters haven't voted....it's a lie, there's zero evidence, only liars words. The vote fraud found was all about not delivering mail in ballots, and all done by Republicans. Over 300000 missing in post offices after the USPS was ordered to sweep all sorting rooms for missing ballots, an order they ignored at DeJoy's direction.

If it wasn't life or death for thousands in the balance, I would agree, but thanks to the worst leader in living memory it is. What's the harm allowing Biden's team access to intelligence so they can vet a cabinet? Biden already has top clearance....but is being blocked out of pure spite. In the .000001% chance Trump manages to flip the results, how would it hurt anything that Biden had a team ready? Trump doesn't need to concede, he can keep instigating his cult to commit terroristic acts and chant "stop the count...count the votes....stop the count...count the votes", and to make up false claims of fraud in hopes of collecting the million dollar reward (bribe to commit perjury) Trumpco has offered.

Let the cases play out, they're being tossed constantly since they have no evidence at all of consequential fraud, only lies and Russian videos,...but since it's clear who won and no fraud case can change that, stop blocking the peaceful transition and hurting the union. Stop wasting hundreds of millions on preparing for a fantasy Trump budget but zero on preparing for Biden, who won. If Trump is declared the winner officially, then stop cooperating with Biden then....no harm no foul.

Carter conceded before the polls closed in the West because he clearly put the nation first over his ego (Reagan's final vote percentage was lower than Biden's btw, Biden is now over 5 million votes ahead) , Trump won't ever concede, he might claim it was stolen and he can't stop it, eroding trust in our system and creating terrorists, he won't ever say he lost or cooperate in a transition. The former hurts confidence in the system, the latter delays the transition and will kill more people for no reason besides sour grapes.

So wait, is your idea of a transition one in which Biden's team takes total control of covid policy to reduce those deaths before he is even inaugurated?

Transition is merely giving info to the new administration employees, they make ZERO policy decisions the old one doesn't agree to implement.

Elections are overseen locally, so if it's run by Democrats then that's who has the power for fraud, and same with Republicans. The 1960 election was widely seen as possibly fraudulent and court cases went into December. Nixon privately believed he was robbed but didn't make his case publicly. One result was overturned(Hawaii, in favor of Kennedy)
https://www.helleniscope.com/2020/11/05/voter-fraud-is-nothing-new-the-1960-election-of-jfk/

While it could only be an improvement, no. My idea of a smooth transition is the way it's been my entire life, the new president gets access to international intelligence to inform his international plans, and access to data to inform his national policies like a comprehensive covid plan, to be implemented Jan 20, and access to classified information about those he intends to make up his administration so he doesn't end up with a bunch of crooks with foreign ties and conflicts of interest.

If he's denied this ordinary government assistance until he takes office, or even before then but close, it severely hampers his ability to be ready day one to start solving problems and saving lives. We can't afford that, it will cost lives and public treasure.

I don't know where you got the idea I thought he would run the government before Jan 20, I do not think that, but I think he should be as ready to go as possible on that day, not still vetting his administration and learning about our secret international agreements, not learning about covid response but with a plan ready to implement.

You had written "Because there's zero chance he can win, and every hour of delay in allowing the transition to proceed 50 Americans die."

If Biden has zero power in the government before Jan 20, then he would not be able to change that 50 Americans dying every hour. If you agree that he has no power in a transition, then you should retract your claim that every hour delayed means 50 more deaths.

Follow if you will....delays in preparation today equate to delays in action after January 20. If Biden could have been prepared for vaccine distribution day one, but now is two weeks behind because of obstinate tantrums, the people who unnecessarily die in the extra two weeks it takes to prepare after he takes office are more blood on Trump's hands.

Just like the 9/11 commission stated the delay in Bush being briefed gave rise to his unpreparedness on 9/11, costing lives, this delay will cost lives.

Also, keep in mind trump just pardoned Flynn for conducting foreign policy in Dec 2016 before Trump took office. Trump thinks the new president should take power immediately...when it's him.

I retract nothing.

You seem to be under the impression nothing is being done to prepare for distribution already. You're sadly misinformed.
There is already widespread preparation to distribute the vaccine once it is approved, tens of millions of doses are being manufactured and stored. There is coordination between the army, pharmacies, states, and nursing homes for the delivery. There won't be much left for Biden to do other than continue the program health professionals have created. It shouldn't need to be said, but I give Trump no credit for this.

If Biden has a plan explaining how the following is bad policy and will cost lives, please point me to his policy paper outlined his improvements.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/downloads/COVID-19-Vaccination-Program-Interim_Playbook.pdf

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-vaccine-distributed-approved-fda/story?id=73889186

Edit: some of us would prefer the president be up to speed on day one, not as a spectator but as a leader. I get that a leader who's prepared to lead is a new concept, but we need one desperately.

You seem to be under the impression that distribution nation wide doesn't need constant supervision and revision. You are sadly misinformed.
The preparation from the Whitehouse isn't complete, distribution of most vaccines requires deep freeze shipping to facilities with proper sub zero storage, and all the equipment for each shot, and a system in place to offer it to only the most at risk (and to deny the asshole who won't wait), personnel, facilities, policies, and equipment. None of that is completed.

Edit: oddly you seem to think a program set up by the Trump team will be flawless and perfectly functional from day one, unlike every other program they set up. When it turns out they planned to use ice cream trucks for delivery, but they aren't cold enough so 30 million doses spoil on the docks, Biden shouldn't be prepared? When it turns out the vaccine that needs sub zero refrigeration is the only one that really works, he shouldn't have a backup plan ready? Why would you assume it will function adequately totally hands off when nothing works that way, especially the biggest mass vaccine program ever?

If you think the federal government isn't going to be in charge, you're again misinformed badly. Operation warp speed, the distribution policy/agency, is in charge... it's a federal program. It will need constant supervision and retooling. Biden will be directly in charge there and should be informed and prepared, not shooting from the hip.

You left out the federal government and manufacturers and manufacturers of needles etc...The most important players in distribution.


Lol...You act like the white house isn't directly in charge of the distribution, they are.

Biden is just now being told the details of the plan, who's involved, and how it's supposed to work. As the leader of the plan, he should be fully informed before taking charge so he can fix whatever the moron who's sycophants designed it screwed up. Until he knows the plan and where and how we are setting it up and what stage we are at, he cannot possibly make his own plans to improve and facilitate it. Duh, that's the point here. You can't be that dense.

Two months is not enough time to be properly briefed on everything he needs to know, as explained in the 9/11 report.

The army, cia, and other agencies had plans for Osama in spring 2001, but Bush was all but unaware of any issues because he lost a few weeks of briefing time during the transition. This is a MAJOR factor in the success of the attack, as he didn't take any action on a problem he was unaware of.

Same goes here.

I know you disagree, you do little else. Fortunately, people with your mindset won't be running things for long, then we can make progress on this and a multitude of fronts Trump screwed up...is it that you even disagree he screwed up his pandemic response despite America being the worst hit country, and despite Covid not disappearing November 4 like he promised? Edit: do you not think it likely a trump response plan could be improved on?

There's so much to fix, like a looming depression, looming homeless armies about to be evicted, payback of the payroll tax holiday, new war with Iran, revision of our Russian policies, international relationships to mend, internal civil unrest, complete erosion of trust in law enforcement, 4 more years of completely ignoring infrastructure, treaties to rejoin, etc. He needs every second available to be as briefed on everything so he doesn't repeat Trump's ignorance of policy and law leading to more trumpian mistakes of ignorance and bravado, costing more lives.

Wow, thanks for the laugh. I thought I had heard every 9/11 theory out there. Apparently 6 months wasn't enough time to brief Bush on the Al Qaeda threat, because his schedule was still backed up from the inauguration. And the FBI and CIA were just too polite to intrude on his time clearing brush on the ranch with a vital national security situation. LOL!!!

Also, what were these "plans for Osama?" Haven't heard that one either.

I didn't come up with it. It was the conclusion of the 9/11 commission. If you disagree , your beef is with them.

I'm sorry you are so ill informed. Perhaps out might try being less dismissive and insulting about your ignorance....but likely not.

Apparently it wasn't enough time for him to grasp the seriousness. It was barely enough time to staff the NSA. They briefed him a few times, but the "Osama Bin Laden preparing to attack" report went unread or at best unheeded. Again, this is according to the bipartisan Senate commission set up to determine what actually happened.

Edit: Andy Card, Bush's chief of staff - “The 9/11 Commission had said if there had been a longer transition and there had been cooperation, there might have been a better response, or maybe not even any attack,” the former chief of staff said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/former-bush-chief-of-staff-cites-9/11-warns-about-slow-transition.html

The 9/11 Commission Report noted:
"[T]he 36-day delay cut in half the normal transition period. Given that a presidential election in the United States brings wholesale change in personnel, this loss of time hampered the new administration in identifying, recruiting, clearing, and obtaining Senate confirmation of key appointees."
The point is that delaying these processes such as obtaining background checks can create significant later delays in putting new officials into place and in some cases obtaining Senate confirmations. Delays in the transference of information with the incoming team can also obstruct the next administration’s ability to carry out existing and new policies.
Perhaps you're unaware, the Bush administration, like others before it, did not have its full national security team on the job until at least six months after it took office.

Plans like watch for groups of middle eastern men who suddenly have funds to move to America, especially those who want to learn to fly, but not take off or land. Plans like track Bin Laden's money and deny people he funds from entering the country. Plans like focus on his communications to learn what his plans were. Plans like take him out before he attacks. There were many plans, I'm sure most were classified but many just common sense.

Really, you never heard the intelligence community makes plans to deal with threats?! They might not have been successful at stopping an attack, but at least could have tried.