PEBCAC

Fuck Lion. I'm waiting for OSX Direwolf.

Sound like dude needs windows.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

I feel his rage. Upgraded to Lion about a week ago - and it feels like a downgrade. I know there are a lot of improvements under the hood like moving apps to 64bit, but all the surface UI crap feels completely useless.

The most retarded bit for me is not showing scrollbars by default. Scrollbars are useful on a web page or document because they actually tell you that there is more content below your viewing area. They give context - I have no frigging idea what they were thinking there.

A lion always pays its debts.

He almost looks like Sheldon.

I never get the latest stuff right away. I just wait. Here's an example WHY you should wait.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Fuck Lion. I'm waiting for OSX Direwolf.


Fuck OS X. I've had these tinboxes (aka MacBook Pro) thrust on me by my ex-employer about a year ago. My last encounter with Apple computers before that was with a Mac Classic when I was in 10th grade. So I didn't really know what I was getting into. Before that I worked for 15 years on Linux.

At first I thought "Ok, Apple, you're all about UX and intuitive design. Enlighten me! (and lets forget the abomination that was itunes for the moment)". Oh boy was I sorely disappointed. The workflow that was thrust on me by MacOS X on the GUI side rubbed me the wrong way, regardless of which aspect. So I thought "Ok, fair enough, those were the default settings. Lets change things a bit.... Uh. Wait? That half dozen scared little options is _all_ I get to fiddle with?". Trying to google for solutions was just as sobering. Apple ignoring feature requests for over 8 years, other people frustrated with the same problems I was facing and the most frequent response to valid questions on (non-Apple) help sites wasn't a "I'm sorry that's not possible" but a condescending "Why would you even think of doing that?".

I lasted for one more day after that before installing Virtualbox and running a useable environment (for me) in there.

I'm not going even to get into the hardware aspects of these machines...

So what I'm taking away from my forced encounter of the turtleneck kind is, we're getting the worst of both worlds:
a) Apple is currently as arrogant as Microsoft was in the 90s
b) Apples user/fanboy base is just as bad as the Linux crowd was in the 90s.

=> It's a cult. They are producing overpriced, mediocre machines with mediocre UI that is a far cry from the intuitiveness that is so often touted.

I'm glad some people are escaping the Jobsian reality distortion field.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Up until Lion I would completely disagree with you and say the UX of OS X is simply the best. Yes, I'm talking against Windows 7, Gnome, KDE et al. Now however, I'm starting to cast a wandering eye back towards Linux.

Windows 7 however, is a frigging awful experience any way you slice it. It's stupid little things like the alt-tab selecting whatever window is in the background when really you just want to cycle through the icons. Also, I can't believe they still haven't killed the dysfunctional bloatware ridden system tray. The retarded nanny-ware labyrinth that has to be navigated to connect to a wireless network makes my eyes bleed.

The way I'm feeling now is that all operating systems suck hard, but OS X sucks a little less, at least until Lion - which, again, is starting to suck much harder for all the reasons outlined in this video - and more.

Also, I don't give a shit about all the other "cult" crap you cite as a reason not to use an OS. I don't pick my computers based on style, other people's behaviour or religious beliefs - and IMO neither should you.


>> ^srd:

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
Fuck Lion. I'm waiting for OSX Direwolf.

Fuck OS X. I've had these tinboxes (aka MacBook Pro) thrust on me by my ex-employer about a year ago. My last encounter with Apple computers before that was with a Mac Classic when I was in 10th grade. So I didn't really know what I was getting into. Before that I worked for 15 years on Linux.
At first I thought "Ok, Apple, you're all about UX and intuitive design. Enlighten me! (and lets forget the abomination that was itunes for the moment)". Oh boy was I sorely disappointed. The workflow that was thrust on me by MacOS X on the GUI side rubbed me the wrong way, regardless of which aspect. So I thought "Ok, fair enough, those were the default settings. Lets change things a bit.... Uh. Wait? That half dozen scared little options is _all_ I get to fiddle with?". Trying to google for solutions was just as sobering. Apple ignoring feature requests for over 8 years, other people frustrated with the same problems I was facing and the most frequent response to valid questions on (non-Apple) help sites wasn't a "I'm sorry that's not possible" but a condescending "Why would you even think of doing that?".
I lasted for one more day after that before installing Virtualbox and running a useable environment (for me) in there.
I'm not going even to get into the hardware aspects of these machines...
So what I'm taking away from my forced encounter of the turtleneck kind is, we're getting the worst of both worlds:
a) Apple is currently as arrogant as Microsoft was in the 90s
b) Apples user/fanboy base is just as bad as the Linux crowd was in the 90s.
=> It's a cult. They are producing overpriced, mediocre machines with mediocre UI that is a far cry from the intuitiveness that is so often touted.
I'm glad some people are escaping the Jobsian reality distortion field.

>> ^dag:

Up until Lion I would completely disagree with you and say the UX of OS X is simply the best. Yes, I'm talking against Windows 7, Gnome, KDE et al. Now however, I'm starting to cast a wandering eye back towards Linux.
Windows 7 however, is a frigging awful experience any way you slice it. It's stupid little things like the alt-tab selecting whatever window is in the background when really you just want to cycle through the icons. Also, I can't believe they still haven't killed the dysfunctional bloatware ridden system tray. The retarded nanny-ware labyrinth that has to be navigated to connect to a wireless network makes my eyes bleed.
The way I'm feeling now is that all operating systems suck hard, but OS X sucks a little less, at least until Lion - which, again, is starting to suck much harder for all the reasons outlined in this video - and more.



Gnome, KDE, Windows et al have been scampering after the OSX UX for some years now, and I agreee have been doing it rather badly. And this is a trend I'm very skeptical of. However, if you like the workflow that OSX/Quarz imposes, I'm sure you can be happy with it. Where I take exception is having no choice except for what some people in a meeting in Cupertino decide is how I should do my work.

Things that really put me off:

- Menu bar at the top of the screen instead of attached to the individual application... Sure, thats traditional on apple computers and that made sense back in the days when the Mac didn't have real multitasking. But nowadays it's just terribly confusing and imposes longer mouse travel distances.

- Mandatory click-to-focus, which can be seen as a neccessary corrolary of the previous point. I've been using the focus-follows-mouse model (without raise-on-focus) for 15 years now and the difference is jarring. Imagine having to click away an overlay on each and every page you go to in your browser.

- Bouncy in-your-face animations and notification boxes that are reminiscent of Paperclip. Shut up already and get out of my face, I'm trying to work, not playing a game of whack-an-icon.

- Apple marketing OSX as 64 bit but delivering it in 32 bit mode and not telling you until you a) find out by accident and then b) spend 10 minutes gooling around until you find the command to switch it to 64bit default mode (no GUI level preference here for whatever reason).

I'd be a lot happier if I had a choice. Either by having real preferences that goes beyond what color scheme do I want and in what way do I want to stroke my touchpad to do what. Or open up the possibility for alternative window managers.

For all the "think different" attitude that Apple likes to spread, the OSX ecosystem seems to be hard at work to remove individual preferences. Apple turned into the opposite of what the 1984 commercial implied.

Dag, if you're looking at linux again, both KDE and Gnome (especially Gnome 3) are IMO horrible too. If you don't like them, give XFCE a go. I've been using it since '03 IIRC, when I grew tired of Blackbox. And you'd be in good company too

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

I agree with most of your points. I would like to make a small defense of the inability to change things in OS X. With mutability can come a lot of overhead and chaos. There is something to be said for an iron hand on the tiller of user interfaces - but only if you trust the group making decisions.

I am not a UX expert. Up until Lion I trusted the UX people at Apple to have a better idea about how humans can optimally interact with a computer. For the most part, I think they were right. Up until Lion - now I think I'm starting to be sold a crock. The decisions they have made don't seem to be based on making efficient interactions happen - but instead about some grand unified melding of Macs and iOS devices. It's bullshit.

The mandatory click to focus thing is really a taste thing. For me, personally it drives me batty. I don't want focus until I've clicked.

Bouncy in your face icons - agreed, annoying - but not as bad modal windows you have to dismiss.


>> ^srd:

>> ^dag:
Up until Lion I would completely disagree with you and say the UX of OS X is simply the best. Yes, I'm talking against Windows 7, Gnome, KDE et al. Now however, I'm starting to cast a wandering eye back towards Linux.
Windows 7 however, is a frigging awful experience any way you slice it. It's stupid little things like the alt-tab selecting whatever window is in the background when really you just want to cycle through the icons. Also, I can't believe they still haven't killed the dysfunctional bloatware ridden system tray. The retarded nanny-ware labyrinth that has to be navigated to connect to a wireless network makes my eyes bleed.
The way I'm feeling now is that all operating systems suck hard, but OS X sucks a little less, at least until Lion - which, again, is starting to suck much harder for all the reasons outlined in this video - and more.


Gnome, KDE, Windows et al have been scampering after the OSX UX for some years now, and I agreee have been doing it rather badly. And this is a trend I'm very skeptical of. However, if you like the workflow that OSX/Quarz imposes, I'm sure you can be happy with it. Where I take exception is having no choice except for what some people in a meeting in Cupertino decide is how I should do my work.
Things that really put me off:
- Menu bar at the top of the screen instead of attached to the individual application... Sure, thats traditional on apple computers and that made sense back in the days when the Mac didn't have real multitasking. But nowadays it's just terribly confusing and imposes longer mouse travel distances.
- Mandatory click-to-focus, which can be seen as a neccessary corrolary of the previous point. I've been using the focus-follows-mouse model (without raise-on-focus) for 15 years now and the difference is jarring. Imagine having to click away an overlay on each and every page you go to in your browser.
- Bouncy in-your-face animations and notification boxes that are reminiscent of Paperclip. Shut up already and get out of my face, I'm trying to work, not playing a game of whack-an-icon.
- Apple marketing OSX as 64 bit but delivering it in 32 bit mode and not telling you until you a) find out by accident and then b) spend 10 minutes gooling around until you find the command to switch it to 64bit default mode (no GUI level preference here for whatever reason).
I'd be a lot happier if I had a choice. Either by having real preferences that goes beyond what color scheme do I want and in what way do I want to stroke my touchpad to do what. Or open up the possibility for alternative window managers.
For all the "think different" attitude that Apple likes to spread, the OSX ecosystem seems to be hard at work to remove individual preferences. Apple turned into the opposite of what the 1984 commercial implied.
Dag, if you're looking at linux again, both KDE and Gnome (especially Gnome 3) are IMO horrible too. If you don't like them, give XFCE a go. I've been using it since '03 IIRC, when I grew tired of Blackbox. And you'd be in good company too

I'll wait for OSX Meerkat. Hopefully by then they'll figure out if it's OSX or iOS, if it's a computer or a fucking tablet.

Alt-tab but hold the Alt button. Select the icon you want.

>> ^dag:
Windows 7 however, is a frigging awful experience any way you slice it. It's stupid little things like the alt-tab selecting whatever window is in the background when really you just want to cycle through the icons.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

I'm talking about the changing of the window in the background to whatever icon you've alt-tabbed to. I don't want it to do that unless I release on that icon. Probably just a taste thing, but I find it really distracting to have the background window constantly flipping each time I progress on that alt-tab. Especially with the translucent Aero UI - I get lost. It's a pretty ugly default implementation IMO, though I know I can change it.

>> ^psolomon:

Alt-tab but hold the Alt button. Select the icon you want.
>> ^dag:
Windows 7 however, is a frigging awful experience any way you slice it. It's stupid little things like the alt-tab selecting whatever window is in the background when really you just want to cycle through the icons.

Looks like I am sticking with Snow Leopard.

I've had my virtualbox XP install invert the mouse scroll wheel direction a few times... very frustrating for an hour or so and then my brain makes it stick. Then... it fixes in virtualbox...

Mmmm kool-aid