Context:

*promote

Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Tuesday, July 5th, 2011 4:50pm PDT - promote requested by original submitter blankfist.

You know what? I'm not a libertarian. Most of the cops I've met are courteous and hard working people. A lot of the time, I disagree with Blankfists "way to go, statist idiots" stance. But I'm starting to think that maybe that's because I don't live in the U.S.

Because this is just bullshit.

I have a right to question the actions of a police officer? You're goddamn right I do!

I can handle that a cop crosses the line, but then he gets defended by officials?

Fuck. That. Shit.

In regards to this specific case, a bit of common sense needs applying. Coming up to a cop in the middle of a potentially violent arrest situation and badgering them probably isn't the smartest thing to do, but taping them from several metres away? How is that "interfering"?

*controversy

Adding video to channels (Controversy) - requested by MrFisk.

Most cops I've met in the US have been very good people (as far as I could tell), but laws prohibiting the filming of police in public allow bad behavior to flourish out of sight. I value the police force, but only when it involves transparency and accountability.

http://gizmodo.com/5553765/are-cameras-the-new-guns

I'll say the same thing in the original sift thread. I think it's highly premature to even be thinking about a police state.

It's far more likely that because everyone has cameras on them now, it's easy to hold cops accountable for the ones that have less than stellar behavior. Prior to cell cameras, it was just a case of his word vs the supposed vicitim, and that's a hard case to prove regardless of what side of it you're on so probably very little got done so there was no incentive for cops to behave better. Correct me if I'm wrong but almost every time stuff like this has gone to the courts, the courts have sided with the civilians and not the cops. If it were the other way around, then yes, we'd definitely have something to worry about.

I think the only thing we really have to worry about is that there are a few states out there where filming cops is illegal...THAT's what really needs to be fixed.

As long as people keep the pressure up and whip out those cameras, then it's we who have the power, not the cops. Pandora's box has been opened and we KNOW who is watching the watchmen now...it's us

I just gotta add that it's the president of a police union saying these things that civvies don't have any rights to observe or interfere...sorry, but he's not a public servant, and this is probably one case where the republicans ARE right and that particular union is corrupt as hell. But that's the union, not the actual LAW of the land

>> ^ChaosEngine:

You know what? I'm not a libertarian. Most of the cops I've met are courteous and hard working people. A lot of the time, I disagree with Blankfists "way to go, statist idiots" stance. But I'm starting to think that maybe that's because I don't live in the U.S.
Because this is just bullshit.
I have a right to question the actions of a police officer? You're goddamn right I do!
I can handle that a cop crosses the line, but then he gets defended by officials?
Fuck. That. Shit.
In regards to this specific case, a bit of common sense needs applying. Coming up to a cop in the middle of a potentially violent arrest situation and badgering them probably isn't the smartest thing to do, but taping them from several metres away? How is that "interfering"?


I think it's more the need for sensationalist BS that pits cop against citizen--even good cops against good citizens.

We like to blow everything up one hundred times until all that is left is madness. I was told by a citizen (thug?) that he was glad a woman escaped prosecution for duct tapping a little girls mouth and killing her--all because the police can go fuck themselves. Thank you very much local bar with your god damn news cast.... And thank you very much American fucktard...

Did I want to puke? You bet your ass I did. But that's the level of hate developing from the opposite sides of the coin. Crazy fucking shit... I would like to move to a world without conflict but I guess I have to settle for here.

(And no, this isn't a defense of cops or anyone, nor is it a slamming of citizens either.)

Whether or not this is a police state is a relative question. Your class, your race, and where in the country you live can all be factors. In the Guliani days, I would argue that parts of NYC was a police state for some poor youth in some parts of the city. In Georgia, they just created a law that tries to create a police state for latinos.

Over the last ten years, I have seen bad cop behavior migrate, so that lower classes, the lighter skinned ethnic groups, and people in more states are starting to be victimized by it.

Cry us a river, Mazzeo - your cops act like a bunch of kids in a playground, handing out tickets to cars parked more than an inch away from the curb, and you're bitching now because the people are pissed off and threatening the police force? Tough shit. If your cops want to play games, of course they're going to invite threats. Take measures to bring them in line, don't fucking support them and promote their behavior. Idiot.

>> ^ChaosEngine:

You know what? I'm not a libertarian. Most of the cops I've met are courteous and hard working people. A lot of the time, I disagree with Blankfists "way to go, statist idiots" stance. But I'm starting to think that maybe that's because I don't live in the U.S.
Because this is just bullshit.
I have a right to question the actions of a police officer? You're goddamn right I do!
I can handle that a cop crosses the line, but then he gets defended by officials?
Fuck. That. Shit.
In regards to this specific case, a bit of common sense needs applying. Coming up to a cop in the middle of a potentially violent arrest situation and badgering them probably isn't the smartest thing to do, but taping them from several metres away? How is that "interfering"?


You're right. My stance on statism is objectionably wrong. But it's a dissenting viewpoint that at least makes you question the status quo, no? If so, then I feel it's working.

You know, when the US Libertarian Party was started in the US, apparently they never sought to win any elections. It was about changing minds. Think about that. Pretty astounding, IMHO.

The last question was Pure America.

>> ^blankfist:

>> ^ChaosEngine:
You know what? I'm not a libertarian. Most of the cops I've met are courteous and hard working people. A lot of the time, I disagree with Blankfists "way to go, statist idiots" stance. But I'm starting to think that maybe that's because I don't live in the U.S.
Because this is just bullshit.
I have a right to question the actions of a police officer? You're goddamn right I do!
I can handle that a cop crosses the line, but then he gets defended by officials?
Fuck. That. Shit.
In regards to this specific case, a bit of common sense needs applying. Coming up to a cop in the middle of a potentially violent arrest situation and badgering them probably isn't the smartest thing to do, but taping them from several metres away? How is that "interfering"?

You're right. My stance on statism is objectionably wrong. But it's a dissenting viewpoint that at least makes you question the status quo, no? If so, then I feel it's working.
You know, when the US Libertarian Party was started in the US, apparently they never sought to win any elections. It was about changing minds. Think about that. Pretty astounding, IMHO.


I never said it was objectionably wrong. I said I disagreed with it. Maybe I'm crazy, but in general I like having people around with opposing viewpoints*, forces you to justify your own beliefs, so cheers non-statist non-idiot!

*within reason: there is nothing to be gained from debating racists, creationists, homoeopaths and shinyblurry.

>> ^catbutt:

Cry us a river, Mazzeo - your cops act like a bunch of kids in a playground, handing out tickets to cars parked more than an inch away from the curb, and you're bitching now because the people are pissed off and threatening the police force? Tough shit. If your cops want to play games, of course they're going to invite threats. Take measures to bring them in line, don't fucking support them and promote their behavior. Idiot.


"Games," as you say, versus, "I will murder you while you sleep" definitely seems tit for tat. *Bullshit* And it certainly adds to the debate. *Bullshit* I wonder if you skipped someone in line at the grocery store and they threatened to murder you and your family because of that game you just played, would you be fine with it? "Boohoo, you cut in line like someone on a playground. Now I want you to die..." That somehow doesn't seem right--but from what you said, it seems you would be fine with it...

Sorry, but upping the ante with threats of violence is wrong. It is wrong for COPS, especially cops, and it is wrong for civilians. Excusing that is unacceptable. And before I finish; threats of violence lead the weak minded to act on violence. It is an entire culture we create, which we don't think of, that acts on the violence... And these real life consequences are getting both sides killed. Young thugs (And old crazy people) who think it's cool to take threats they hear about and act on, and officers... Both sides. Sad.

Cops are the largest organized and armed gang in the US. They collect revenue for cities and states. They enforce laws that disproportionally target the poor and the non-white. They are rarely prosecuted and almost never convicted for crimes committed by their members, even while off duty.
The police often attract employees who enjoy violence.

I fear the police much more than I count on them to do the right thing.

Is it just me or is that guy the worst CNN anchor ever?

>> ^criticalthud:

I fear the police much more than I count on them to do the right thing.


Paranoid much?

While there is no denying that some of our people in uniform abuse the power they are given, sometimes with extreme and unfortunately deadly results, these idiots are only a small portion of the law enforcement community. My personal experiences with police officers over my 44 years of life have been one of mutual respect. I find that if you engage an officer with a level of respect, most times you will get that in kind.

In the case of Emily, there is no doubt she was doing something well within her rights as a citizen and that the officer had no reason to feel threatened by her actions. Her arrest was a definite abuse of power, and the ticketing of the supporters was most certainly a form of intimidation/retaliation, but I'm not going to lose any sleep at night worried about my next encounter with the police. I have confidence that my local law enforcement will do what is right and appropriate in most situations.

>> ^criticalthud:

Cops are the largest organized and armed gang in the US. They collect revenue for cities and states. They enforce laws that disproportionally target the poor and the non-white. They are rarely prosecuted and almost never convicted for crimes committed by their members, even while off duty.
The police often attract employees who enjoy violence.
I fear the police much more than I count on them to do the right thing.


Not in Rochester. In Rochester, it's the Crips. Just sayin'. I know they both wear blue and all, it can be tough to tell. I have a feeling the Rochester Crips run most of the Caine and H that the north east sees. They also routinely wear vests, and carry automatic weapons. A friend of mine witnessed a drive-by with an automatic weapon right down the street from our house, which I believe is right down the street from where the original arrest took place.

She shouldn't have been arrested, and the court dismissed it out of hand. In fact, the court didn't, the prosecutor didn't even press the charge. Our legal system has routinely defended our rights to question and record the police. That a couple of high-stress cops over-react isn't surprising, nor is it particularly threatening to our liberties. There is, however, some serious anti-cop sentiment that is threatening to everybody. I can see being uneasy as a cop, particularly in some neighborhoods of that town. Edgy cops are more likely to do something they shouldn't. Sure, the ticket thing was childish, but it's too convenient to paint this issue with a broad brush. If you were forced to watch every arrest on film, my suspicion is that you'd agree with the vast majority of them. You just only see the videos the "changing minds campaigners" want you to see.

@bareboards2

>> ^ToastyBuffoon:

>> ^criticalthud:
I fear the police much more than I count on them to do the right thing.

Paranoid much?
While there is no denying that some of our people in uniform abuse the power they are given, sometimes with extreme and unfortunately deadly results, these idiots are only a small portion of the law enforcement community. My personal experiences with police officers over my 44 years of life have been one of mutual respect. I find that if you engage an officer with a level of respect, most times you will get that in kind.
In the case of Emily, there is no doubt she was doing something well within her rights as a citizen and that the officer had no reason to feel threatened by her actions. Her arrest was a definite abuse of power, and the ticketing of the supporters was most certainly a form of intimidation/retaliation, but I'm not going to lose any sleep at night worried about my next encounter with the police. I have confidence that my local law enforcement will do what is right and appropriate in most situations.


totally! LOL i'm an ex lawyer. i used to represent incarcerated juvi's down in louisiana, so my perception is a bit skewed. yeah of course some good cops out there. i've known a few too. but seen some bad shit. and many cops i've been around have voiced the opinion that the rule of law (what there is of it) is essentially an impediment to them doing their "jobs". and often times cops have no issues whatsoever with framing someone they know of to be "bad" but don't have the evidence to nail. but yeah, there will forever be shades of grey in this area. I think if we focused on the fact that the laws are most often written by those who wish to preserve the status quo (the rich) and returned the rule of law to the people, so many of these issues would be mitigated. thanks for the call out

This was a great interview and the comment stream is terrific.

I really want to excerpt out the newspaper columnist's comments -- same subject, different slant, potent potent words. What she said hasn't been mentioned in the comment stream, since it is such a different slant. It deserves its own comment stream.

I can see how cops would get mad at the rule of law when they are the only ones following it (As they should.) I could see how a rapist getting off (Literally sometimes) because a reasonable cause was questioned could frustrate someone. I can see how citizens, and their yelling and screaming, "My kids innocent!" all the time would fluster. I can see how, "You need to bring justice and find someone guilty!" would also fluster.

And I can see how the innocent juvie who get's caught at the wrong place/wrong time could get flustered.

I think citizens and their unregulated sense that someone must die, someone must be brought to justice or the cops aren't doing their jobs is more to blame than anything else...

But at least you can admit your opinion is skewed (I doubt just a bit though.) Stockholm syndrome is so true...

>> ^criticalthud:
>> ^ToastyBuffoon:
>> ^criticalthud:
I fear the police much more than I count on them to do the right thing.

Paranoid much?
While there is no denying that some of our people in uniform abuse the power they are given, sometimes with extreme and unfortunately deadly results, these idiots are only a small portion of the law enforcement community. My personal experiences with police officers over my 44 years of life have been one of mutual respect. I find that if you engage an officer with a level of respect, most times you will get that in kind.
In the case of Emily, there is no doubt she was doing something well within her rights as a citizen and that the officer had no reason to feel threatened by her actions. Her arrest was a definite abuse of power, and the ticketing of the supporters was most certainly a form of intimidation/retaliation, but I'm not going to lose any sleep at night worried about my next encounter with the police. I have confidence that my local law enforcement will do what is right and appropriate in most situations.

totally! <IMG class=smiley src="http://cdn.videosift.com/cdm/emoticon/smile.gif"> LOL i'm an ex lawyer. i used to represent incarcerated juvi's down in louisiana, so my perception is a bit skewed. yeah of course some good cops out there. i've known a few too. but seen some bad shit. and many cops i've been around have voiced the opinion that the rule of law (what there is of it) is essentially an impediment to them doing their "jobs". and often times cops have no issues whatsoever with framing someone they know of to be "bad" but don't have the evidence to nail. but yeah, there will forever be shades of grey in this area. I think if we focused on the fact that the laws are most often written by those who wish to preserve the status quo (the rich) and returned the rule of law to the people, so many of these issues would be mitigated. thanks for the call out <IMG class=smiley src="http://cdn.videosift.com/cdm/emoticon/smile.gif">

Yes.

How is this even a question?

And of course these police officers are being threatened as a result of this insanity. How else should one treat an enemy? Citizens should not put up with this eradication of freedom, and should do everything necessary to fight bondage and enslavement.

The police are supposed to protect citizens. Who protects citizens against the police when they do the opposite?

>> ^Xax:

Yes.
How is this even a question?
And of course these police officers are being threatened as a result of this insanity. How else should one treat an enemy? Citizens should not put up with this eradication of freedom, and should do everything necessary to fight bondage and enslavement.
The police are supposed to protect citizens. Who protects citizens against the police when they do the opposite?


You ask, "How else should one treat the enemy?" Erm, maybe like Martin Luther King Jr did? Or Gandhi. Or others who show love instead of hate and who affect change.

Hate can solve problems... But more often it only creates more problems. And to further my point; some cops think exactly like you do Xax, and so the two sides will clash with equal motives and morality.

But your kind of road-rage=like response is hardly new or unique. Muslims use it. Dictators, neighbors, brothers, sisters, cops, drivers, society, they all use it... and so we have our fucked up world.

I get what you're saying Xax, but you note the problem yourself--insanity. Which side will bring the sanity back? Not the cop lovers, and not the cop haters...

And to answer the question of who protects citizens from the police; citizens do. They create the atmosphere of respect or hate, and they BECOME the police; so yeah, they do. I am sure if you were to become an officer, i.e., use the greatest means you have to make change, you could affect things for the positive. But you probably would never do that, become a police officer and make positive changes, I am assuming. You and I are a lot alike in that part--we talk, but we won't walk.

GUYS!!! "AWESOME" FACEBOOK ANNOUNCEMENT COMING WEDNESDAY!!!! !!!!

>> ^ForgedReality:

GUYS!!! "AWESOME" FACEBOOK ANNOUNCEMENT COMING WEDNESDAY!!!! !!!!


I don't believe you!

>> ^DerHasisttot:

>> ^ForgedReality:
GUYS!!! "AWESOME" FACEBOOK ANNOUNCEMENT COMING WEDNESDAY!!!! !!!!

I don't believe you!


Well if I'm a liar, so is this news channel. 1:13.

>> ^ForgedReality:

>> ^DerHasisttot:
>> ^ForgedReality:
GUYS!!! "AWESOME" FACEBOOK ANNOUNCEMENT COMING WEDNESDAY!!!! !!!!

I don't believe you!

Well if I'm a liar, so is this news channel. 1:13.


Ok, now I believe you, but not CNN.

*dead

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