Found this video via this link and I got to wondering.. Why is a woman's body "her body" only when it comes to abortion? Why is it not also "her body" when it comes to what substances she can take, drink, eat, or smoke? Why is it not "her body" when it comes to which (copyrighted) works she can write or record? Why is it not "her body" when it comes to what work she wants to do (like sex) for whatever wages she chooses to work? Why is it not "her body" for whatever she wants to use it for (so long as it does not initiate aggression against someone else)?

O

I approve of the stated purpose of this video, but it still seems incredibly sentimental and american.

When I walk out of the dentist I'm not in awe of the fact that my teeth can grow cavities.

After typing lots of stuff, I realized the rabbit hole would have no end so I'll leave it unsaid, but making this video was an amazingly brave and worthwhile decision on her part as I see it.

Some of it did seem a little too lean a little too much toward "positive experience" which may be necessary for balance I suppose, but nor do I see it as negative. She paid the parking ticket rather than having her life impounded, which is fine and proper and right for her when it came to that, but it's better to put money in the meter and avoid the ticket. Good lord, that's a terrible analogy... or metaphor... or whatever it is.

Sometimes, I have too many opinions. Anyways, I think Emily Letts is a little bit of a hero regardless.

Agree on pretty much all of that, apart from the copyright part.

There are a caveats like smoking in non-smoking areas (smoke all you want, just not near me), parents who feed their kids crap (it's one thing for an adult to make an informed decision to eat crap, but kids should be given at least some nutrition), or drug related crime (and I don't mean possession or use). All are fairly grey areas though and beyond the scope of this topic.

One thing I don't get is WTF "use of her body" has to do with copyrighted works (other than in a sense so broad as to be meaningless)? It's a really weird connection to make, and it seems like you're arguing for something that pretty much already exists. No-one is going to stop you singing a copyrighted song, or reciting a copyrighted poem.

I genuinely don't get what your point is.

A woman kills her baby and she's a hero? What kind of upside-down world do you live in? Good God.
I like how everyone who supports abortion has had their chance at life.
What a sad state.
This woman will live to regret this horrendous decision.

An unborn fetus is nothing but a collection of cells, there is no conciousness, there is nothing in it that even remotely resembles humanity.

Calm the fuck down. Instead of being forced into a life of utter shit because of people like you who would rather remove all choice from the matter, where the child would likely have had a horrible life due to the mother not being ready for a kid, either financially, or socially....she made a decision that was best for her and those around her.

You are the coward in this situation, refusing to face the hard facts that single women in this world have to deal with on a daily basis.

She will live comfortably, and maybe regret it....but at least she has a choice in the matter.

Keep your religion to yourself, forcing your ideals on others, forcing government into others bodies....so much irony coming from those adamant on less government in our lives.

Ah yes, unfortunately this is unlikely to be a discussion that will change any minds. I understand the sets of beliefs and logical connections that would lead an intelligent person to oppose abortion, which I respect as a perfectly valid position for such a person to maintain. It would be truly monstrous to give such a person no choice in whether or not to undergo an abortion.

My own beliefs and logic, which naturally I feel are equally valid, lead me to a different overall conclusion, but I nevertheless feel it would certainly be no less monstrous to give a person with beliefs similar to my own no choice in whether or not to undergo an abortion.

FUCK THOSE BASTARD FUCKERS, they are better off dead than to have parents that would kill them. Who else would take care of them ? the shitty slut that fucked her way into this position ?? or the sperm Donor who let this Scarlett whore achieve her goal ??

yea beacause condoms are a 100 percent.

fuck off ya jack weiner.

the only 100 percent way not to get a vagina seeded is to not fuck a vagina.

ABSTINENCE AND GOD. That is all ALL walking baby incubators need to know. HOW CAN A WOMAN BE SO DAMN IRRESPONSIBLE AS TO SPILL SPERM INTO HER INSIDES. DAMN WOMEN, IT IS ALL THEIR FAULTS.

When I get a tumor I do not want, I hope to get it eradicated from my fleshy animate body, and the same thing should go for the other half of the population, however small their brains are and legs wide. derp derp derp.

They can only grow cavities if you let them.

Edited to add - You should be in awe at the fact you can afford or are privileged in some way to actually go to a dentist. Shitty analogy in my opinion.

Because it's literally her body.

Such a hot-button topic. I haven't watched the video yet but I will.

I do wonder how many pro-life believers have seen this and cried while watching.

There are some serious mental cases making comments here.

You clearly have an extremely low intelligence as evidenced by a complete lack of reading comprehension. Please accept my sincere condolences to your family for the devastating disappointment that you must be to them.

Yourself included?

You have the option to leave, dummy

No, I'm the sane voice of reason here. Hopefully maturity will do the same for you.

i am personally pro-life.

that being said,i do not feel i have the right to judge another for decisions they make in regards to their own body.

i have personally escorted four women to have this procedure done and though i may have disagreed with their choices,i did,however,understand them.

their decisions weighed heavily on them.they struggled with the morality and consequences and ultimately the inevitable shame/guilt/regret.

i offered to escort these women not as a way to approve of their decision but rather to protect them from the usual throngs of judgmental,rabid fundamentalist christians that congregated at the few clinics that performed this procedure.

they behaved like anything BUT christians and the shame they attempted to project on my escortee (is that even a word?) should have been directed at themselves.

the long term effects of this choice leaves deep and long lasting scars and i have never met a woman who chose this procedure lightly.

let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
judge not lest ye be judged.

who are we to judge anothers path?
by what right do we reserve such moral authority?

@lantern53 Trancecoach is not a mental case, he would know.

Would you arrest me and spank my bum in the back of your cruiser if you found me on the side of the highway?

You don't judge people?
Would you date a college graduate, or a tatted-up meth user?
How about a banana? Prefer one ripe or overripe?
How about your car, would you like a clean one or a dirty, bashed up one?
How about if his path is to take everything you have, including your life? You respect that?
What if you are the father and want the baby?

So Christians are supposed to just applaud when they see something as egregious as abortion? Were Christians supposed to just stand by while Nazis gathered up all the Jews?

Speaking of which, your brother wants to be a Nazi...do you judge his path?
What is he wants to be a Christian...do you judge his path?

no, they're supposed to shut the fuck up because it's not your body. It's not your decision, it's none of your business. Just like I don't care how many anonymous strangers you hook up with on grinder. Your body, your rules.

It's total hypocrisy to advocate limited government, but then to turn right around and try and legislate what someone can do with their own body. You can't wrap yourself in the flag of freedom while legislating that someone can't make the choice you don't approve of. Tough shit. It's the standard "Freedom for me, but not for you" BS we've come to expect from nutjobs on the right.

I actually don't get her decision to film her abortion. I don't get why anyone would want to make something so private so public. But my approval is not a requirement, she could care less what VoodooV thinks, and rightly so.

as for the "everyone is insane except for me" argument. Is that what you tell your psychotherapist? how many anti-psychotics do they have you on now?

was this directed at me sir?

Yes, enoch...you don't make judgments?

gotta love the cognitive dissonance required to equate abortion to Nazis

How do you know this, that there is no consciousness?

A fetus doesn't remotely resemble humanity? An elephant fetus sure resembles an elephant. A dolphin fetus sure resembles a dolphin.

I don't believe you are thinking through your statements.

yeah we trust science more than we trust your "truthiness"

come back when you've published some peer reviewed papers.

@lantern53
of course i do.
we all do.
but i do not condemn and THAT is a distinction your commentary is lacking.in fact,the majority of your examples are really just choices,loosely based on judgment.

i also never suggested that christians,or anybody else for that matter,applaud a womans decision to have an abortion.i merely suggested that the decision is hers and hers alone and it DOES have serious consequences that the woman will have to carry with her the rest of her life.

as for the nazi analogy...godwins law again,but might i suggest some more reading in that matter?you consistently get that history wrong.

judgment and condemnation are not the same thing my friend.though one may to lead to the other.

so while i may have disapproved of the decision those women made,i do not judge them nor condemn them.which is why i escorted them and helped protect them.

why?
because i am not them,so who am i to judge?
also,it was the christian thing to do.

i always assumed you were christian lantern,my apologies if my assumptions were incorrect and i proceeded from a false premise.

@enoch
I don't have a problem with you protecting these women from violence, that is the Christian thing to do.

but what history am I getting wrong?

Also I did not 'condemn' anyone. I think her actions are horrendous. that does not mean I think she's going to hell, or whatever.

I don't 'condemn' meth users. They have condemned themselves. But I can make a judgment on whether I would trust these people or not.

My ass wanting to be played with by an officer of the local law has still been unanswered.

Why must cops be so choosy.

This.

I have to admit I started watching the video and switched it off almost immediately. I simply have no desire to see this.

I don't like abortion. I don't think anyone does. I'm 100% glad it's legal though, because until you're in that situation, you can't judge.

@enoch, a question (and feel free to tell me it's none of my business): You say don't condemn, but if the child was yours, would it be the end of the relationship for you? I've often wondered about this myself. I don't want kids, but I think I'd struggle if my wife got pregnant and wanted an abortion. Part of me feels that it's the ultimate dick move to abandon someone you love at one of the lowest points of their life, but equally, I'm not sure I could live with it.

A human is to humanity, as an elephant is to elephanty.....a collection of cells contained with a womb, not yet born, not yet given rise to conciousness, the ability to think cognicent ideas, the ability to understand, language, comprehension, maths, compassion, empathy, society etc...this is what dictates humanity, not just the species by which the genome belongs.

The ability to participate.

These fetuses are not human, not yet. They are still developing.

Their brains have not developed enough to even breathe, let alone have cognitive thinking.

This is no more 'murder' than killing a common house fly is 'murder'.

To let it continue to grow, to force a woman to term given negative outcomes for both the child, the parent, and society in general as a result of not being ready or prepared, either due to finance or social circumstance, all in the name of your religious or political beliefs, is such a massive irony filled injustice on our society....and its a shame that you cant see it.

Assuming the 'negative outcome' scenario, also the nature of human consciousness (so simply and patently codified), what 'preparation' beyond one's will would prepare a human for a planet made hostile to humanity BY humanity?

Life itself is an injustice according to the parameters we are willing to accept as just or fair or equitable. So Emily here decides to film her abortion procedure for her own benefit, her own ego, a journalistic form of self-therapy perhaps? I would challenge any American white woman's spoken motivations for ending a pregnancy and find by peeling the layers of the onion away in about 10 minutes of Q&A that that little piece of meat growing inside of her needs to go because it's gonna be an inconvenience to her lifestyle, a challenge to her own limited consciousness of the nature of life and the universe.

Swat that little nuisance before it lands on my food, for crissakes.

An inconvenience to her lifestyle?
What if this girl has a medical condition that would have caused her DEATH if the baby was bought to term?
What if this girl has no stable job, and zero financial support beyond there, would you be ok bringing someone into this world into a destitute, empoverished lifestyle?
What if this girl just...doesnt want the baby at all?

Who cares what the details are behind the decision...its her body, its her decision.

The same people who harp on about this being bad, seem to also be the same ones who want the government out of our lives (but not if its homosexuality, or what we put into....or take out of our OWN FUCKING BODIES).

How hypocritical, I cannot even begin to understand how these conflicting points of view are reconciled.

Its her body, its her life, she SHOULD have the choice to decide what she wants to do with the BOTH of them.

End of story.

You people are all believers in euthanasia, aren't you?
If a person is unwanted, just kill them.

Why not have abortion to the 19th month? or more? The mother decides she doesn't want the child, she should be able to terminate it, right? It probably is not participating to her satisfaction.

why do we prosecute such women for murder after the child has exited the birth canal?

ahh more dodges, false equivalences and strawmen from lantern53.

do you even know what a logical fallacy is?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=logical+fallacy

Can't actually answer the challenges made to you, so change the subject am I right? standard troll tactic.

Anyone?

maybe it isn't a valid question?

It is a basic Ideological difference, one/some believe that a soul extends to consciousness.

One/Some believe that consciousness is not actually known in terms of "soul" but the premise is based on the fact science dictates that a collection of functioning organs that include the brain are what constitutes an aware and sufferable being. I have a planter wart that is starting on my hand, it started last week that I can recall, that is a collection of cells, I can not think of this collection of cells any different than a starting fetus.

You are looking for a reason or a definition you flat out will not regard or accept until you really open your mind to what the universe is.

You will not get a satisfactory answer from anyone " on this side of the wall " because it does not fit within your reality.
wont happen, you are not open.

You people are all believers in euthanasia, aren't you

and euthanasia in what case ??

if you are terminal and are of somewhat age to understand what is going on why not ?? you seem to lump in the definition to killing children based on a parents response. that is just ludicrous an you know it.

people who get to a point where they want to die based on whatever personal troubles that I can not adaquatly list here, they should have that option. I would assume that you belive suicides go to hell. .. . that is their decision, if a mortal body that is conscious and wants to die but can not do it by their own means, should have that option. it is inhuman not to allow that in my opintion.

really all I have been responding to is the other side of the fences argument, which seems to trickles through the fence as ideology/bible/jesus/god/ that sort.

How can you justify your position, you seem to have one but you never actually list any scripture, so is it all based on bible or was this how you are raised ? people do not just come into that style or sort of belief. You want answers from others, I would not mind understanding you a bit more, I am somewhat confused now.

In my eyes you deny people, in my understanding you see them as not worthy of second though or rights.. but based on what ?

Believer in euthanasia? Yes, as a basic human right. If someone has suffered through a terminal illness for so long, that they no longer have the will to live, and medical science has expended all treatment options available, is it morally correct to let that person to continue to suffer through the agonising pain until their body collapses? Or is it more moral to allow them to have control over when they leave this earth, and in what manner it is done?

Either case - this isnt about euthanasia.

An abortion can only be medically acheived safely up to the 2nd trimester, and it gets tricky in the third as the embryo is large enough and involved into the mothers own body that it has the potential to cause more harm than if it was done earlier.

'Abortion' (lets just call it what it is, murder..) after birth, at 10 months old...is infanticide, and you can be thrown in prison for a very long time for doing something like that. The child's brain has developed, they breathe, they love, they hear, see, smell, taste, comprehend, communicate....they do everything that a fetus does not do.

They have developed into a human being.

Thats murder.

Terminating an unwanted or unsafe pregnancy is not murder, because its just a couple of thousand cells, not yet developed.

So as long as it hasn't passed through the birth canal, it's just a bunch of cells. Once it has, it's a human being.

That flies in the face of logic and common sense.

Yes it does, which is why logic dictates in most modern law what is and is not a functioning "human" or "embryo" or what have you.

You seem to really not want to understand... have you made any effort on your own to understand the other position in this fence post argument??

I do not want to offend but it seems so. a collection of cells gather into a certain stage.. at earlier stages it is just that. which is why I brought up the soul issue..

and another strawman.

late term abortions are generally more controversial where even the left might oppose them. But again, not our body, not our decision, what part of that do you not get.

as Bone pointed out, you don't seem to want to understand. so if you don't care, yet you're still arguing, that makes you a troll.

Sure, I understand the other side of the argument, that a person should be able to do with his body whatever, which I can appreciate, however, we're talking about what rights the fetus has. At a certain point, the fetus has rights, which is why late term abortions are illegal in most places.

A friend of mine once got a girl pregnant, she went to have an abortion. He found out the girl would have had twins. He regretted the decision she made for the rest of his life.

My stepdaughter had a baby out of wedlock. She was pressured to have an abortion by her father.

Yesterday I attended her college graduation, double major, cum laude honors and the sweetest and most beautiful young lady you ever met.

My sister had a baby out of wedlock, she was pressured to get an abortion by the father's family. Now that baby is a physician's assistant, has two beautiful daughters whom my sister loves like nothing else.

So you can go and have an abortion, but what have you denied your own life...

I know a lot of you will just say 'it's her right, blah blah blah', but this world is not enriched by death, only by life.

another strawman and appeal to emotion.

See that's the great thing about choice. If you choose to have the baby, fine. If you choose to not have the baby fine.

Again....NOT YOUR DECISION. It's theirs...not you...get it? Yours is an ego-driven argument. what you would do is not superior...it's just different.

It's already been decided that a fetus doesn't have rights as it is not human. that's why it's called a fetus. see, words have meaning and that's why we call it a fetus...because it's not human.

you can recite all these anecdotal stories...but that's all they are...anecdotal. The experiences and struggles of an entire population are just a tad bit larger than your self-centered viewpoint.

There are plenty of times I would not approve of an abortion. Especially if the parents are financially and emotionally secure to have a child. There's just no reason for it. But again, I am capable of thinking beyond my self and beyond my ego.

you should try to do the same.

besides, you can't really wrap yourself in the flag of "pro-life" since the policies of the right are very hypocritical. save the fetus at all cost, but once the kid is out of the womb, cut education, cut gov't services that would enrich it's life and give it a better chance at success.

Not to mention how "pro-life" people are pro-life..... right up until the question of the death penalty arises

Or no health insurance... Or if they believe in a different imaginary friend, or if they're poor...

It's such a strawman, no one is pro abortion. There is not a single woman who is ever happy to get an abortion. You give me a world with no rape, incest, no medical problems and every single person is financially and emotionally secure and I'll oppose abortion. We don't live in that fantasy world, therefore abortions are necessary

If men could give birth, abortion would be a constitutional right