Tags for this video have been changed from 'george bush, katrina, new orleans' to 'george bush, hurricane, katrina, disaster, new orleans, 2005, fema, levees' - edited by kronosposeidon

You know, of all the fuckups George W. Bush is responsible for, his Hurricane Katrina response is the one that hits me the most viscerally, even to this day. All the deaths in Iraq bothered me too (and still do), so don't get me wrong. Still, when I saw what was happening (actually, what wasn't happening) in New Orleans after Katrina, I felt like Bush had in effect turned the richest country on earth into a third world nation, in a matter of just a few short days. It's like he said, "If you're poor, I don't care where in the world you live, because I'm gonna make sure you get fucked."

Mission accomplished, motherfucker.

*quality for Bush's *lies and we should all *fear the incompetency of government.

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by blankfist.

Adding video to channels (Fear, Lies) - requested by blankfist.

>> ^blankfist:
quality for Bush's lies and we should all fear the incompetency of government.

Only when it's run by people whose whole platform is "government can't do anything right". They have this odd tendency to try their best to prove it.

I wish i could doubelpromote this. but i think it will do fine without it.

>> ^NetRunner:
>> ^blankfist:
quality for Bush's lies and we should all fear the incompetency of government.
Only when it's run by people whose whole platform is "government can't do anything right". They have this odd tendency to try their best to prove it.


Then get off my channel if it bothers you so. *nochannel. *politis. *news. *controversy.

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*politics

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"I don't think anyone anticipated the breech of the levees."

This just further proves my theory that Bush travels backwards through time. Poor guy.

No wonder he needed all that vacation time just before (after) his first election, he was pooped.

"...And we pray for no loss of life, of course." - G.W. Bush

How is it that if this hypocritical motherfucker actually believes in the literal word of the bible, he still doesn't realize he'd be going straight to hell after his death if one actually existed? Is he really THAT retarded??

sorry fisty - this clearly belongs in *lies.

Adding video to channels (Lies) - requested by SlipperyPete.

too bad there isn't a *deadhorse tag for these things.

Invocations (dead) cannot be called by deadgoon because deadgoon is not privileged - sorry.

Dead horse

Amen to that. Not THIS again...

There's plenty of blame to go around on Katrina. The Army Corps of Engineers had people who knew the levies were bad for years and years. This is something that goes much further back than Bush. The ACoE wanted to conduct extensive building projects on the levees, floodgates, and all kinds of stuff as far back as 1997.

But they weren't allowed to do anything. Why not? A combination of local and national politics. In the 1990s, Clinton's administration gave strong weight to environmentalist lobby groups like the Sierra Club, Audobon society, and American Rivers. These organization strongly opposed any and all levee repairs or upgrades because they were concerned about the Sockeye salmon, the wetlands, and the standard array of enviro-nut agendas. They sued, stonewalled, and delayed levee repairs well into the 2000s. Then Katrina hit. Boom. Levees broke.

Bush had no power to just roll in and repair the levees by fiat. Various lobbies both national and local (New Orleans unions) would not allow the ACoE to so much as spackle a levee wall. If Bush had just gone in anyway then the environut lobbies and other liberal activist groups would have screamed bloody murder like they do every time someone wants to drill in ANWR. Federal funds were given to New Orleans year after year specifically for the purpose of the city fixing the levies. But year after year the New Orleans political system (run by Democrats) frittered the money away and nothing got done.

Then - surprise surprise - the levies broke and then everyone is like "Wah wah wah - Bush didn't do enough..." Whatever. The stage was set for that particular mess long before Bush so much as printed his first campaign sign.

Bush's method to prevent disaster.

Sit on his ass and pray about it.

-
Prayer: How to to do absofuckinglutely nothing, yet think you are doing something.

So wait... Bush wasn't a very good president?

I think Winstonfield nailed the issue on the head. There is lots of blame to go around, and the only criticism one can throw at Bush is over the response to the disaster AFTER it occurred.

For the record, the entire city of New Orleans should have considered themselves "warned about Katrina" the day the decided to live several feet below sea level, bordering the Gulf of Mexico and in a routine hurricane zone. New Orleans still is an even bigger disaster just waiting to happen.

Good points, WP. But you see, this is not a forum for actual truth and accountability, it's a group therapy session for the like-"minded". I'd bet if the lefties were in charge during Katrina, things wouldn't have been much different, including the righties blaming the lefties for fucking up. Just look who Obammy picked to solve our current economic problems: Timothy Geithner...hahaha

- Tax cheat
- CFR
- Bilderberg
- Kissinger lackey

The only jobs created so far have been accountants for the banks and auto companies to count the bailout monies coming in.

Change...what a bunch of bullshit.

further evidence that Bush should have not just been impeached but executed for being to stupid to do his job! No accountability at the White House. Ironically, wasnt the GOP complaining about accounting standards to the Democrats and Acorn back at the election? Maybe they should hold themselves fully accountable? But no, being irresponsible is the hallmark of the Republican Party.

Still, it does show there were alot of educated people, who warned that the storm was not looking good. Hell, a Cat 5 Hurricane should NEVER be blown off (no pun intended) like the president did.

I would rank Hurricane Katrina as Bush's second worst issue in his two terms (the first being the handling of Iraq & Afghanistan).

>> ^Nithern:
further evidence that Bush should have not just been impeached but executed for being to stupid to do his job! No accountability at the White House. Ironically, wasnt the GOP complaining about accounting standards to the Democrats and Acorn back at the election? Maybe they should hold themselves fully accountable? But no, being irresponsible is the hallmark of the Republican Party.
Still, it does show there were alot of educated people, who warned that the storm was not looking good. Hell, a Cat 5 Hurricane should NEVER be blown off (no pun intended) like the president did.
I would rank Hurricane Katrina as Bush's second worst issue in his two terms (the first being the handling of Iraq & Afghanistan).


Nuremberg the Bush.

There is lots of blame to go around, and the only criticism one can throw at Bush is over the response to the disaster AFTER it occurred.

Very true - and I hope what I said isn't misconstrued as a defense of Bush. Knowing what they knew - the initial federal response should have been much stronger. Instead it took them 2 or 3 days to really get going, and by then the damage was already done. But be realisitc folks. It wasn't Bush's fault the levees broke. It wasn't Bush's fault that the evacuation was slow, unorganized, and ineffective - leaving thousands stranded. What was Bush's fault was that initial relief efforts were tepid, and that sufficient relief effort didn't arrive for a few days.

But even so, federal efforts were already rolling even before the 26th. The Coast Guard, the National Guard, and a whole host of agencies Federal, State, local, and private were already moving. Bush signed the disaster aid request from the governor on the 28th. Katrina didn't even make landfall until the 29th. The levees didn't start failing en masse until late on the 29th and afterwards. Government doesn't send in tens of thousands of national guardsmen right into a hurricane that is still in progress.

And finally, no one really expected things to get that bad. It just seems to me that neolib apologists are pretending to be Wizards of Hindsight on this topic. They pretend everything was all Bush's fault when realistically speaking, the blame spreads around in a lot of neolib corners before it ever gets to Bush.

So are you saying that Brownie did do a hell of a job?

Winstonfield, when you're the head of an organization, any disaster is ultimately your fault. It's your job to make sure the people in your organization are giving you the right information and using robust risk management models. 'Nobody told me' or 'it's not my job' aren't legitimate excuses when you're in that position.

It's an enormously complex task to run a large organization cleverly, and that's why in business you'd be crazy to put in charge people like Bush who don't live in the modern, complex world.

Winstonfield, when you're the head of an organization, any disaster is ultimately your fault.

Bush wasn't President of New Orleans. Local disaster preparedness is not the responsibility of the federal government. That falls primarily at the state and local level, with the federal government doing 'advise and consent' stuff (when requested).

But let's use your logic for a second. California. According to your logic, the current wildfires taking place are Obama's fault. All the property damage is Obama's fault... Any people that die were personally killed by Obama... Blah blah blah - it's a ridiculous way of thinking and I don't ascribe to it. The fact that New Orleans wasn't prepared for a hurricane of Katrina's scope wasn't Bush's 'fault' - and it isn't Obama's 'fault' that Los Angeles isn't prepared for a wildfire of the current scope.

The repair and maintainance of the levees was the responsibility Ray Nagin. It was also his job to evacuate the thousands and thousands who were still there when the storm hit (he was too busy commandeering rescue vehicles to clear out his personal belongings). The requests for federal relief and administration of said relief was the responsibility of governor Blanco. The only thing FEMA does is roll in with a big pile of trucks full of supplies and materiel. It was Bush's fault that the first initial relief was too small, but it was Nagin and Blanco who set the table and created the dynamic which made the initial supplies insufficient.

No other FEMA effort in a long time needed even a tenth of what New Orleans needed. How could FEMA have possibly projected the scope of the need until it was already happening? The relief order was signed on the 28th. Katrina hit on the 29th. The damage and scope of the need wasn't apparent until August 30 and the beginning of September. As I said... There's a lot of blame to go around, but to pretend this was all "Bush's" fault is nothing more than neolib quackery.

Winstonfield, the scope of the damage and need WAS known ahead of time. By now everyone knows of the Aug. 28th National Weather Service bulletin with its dramatic wording:

...DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED...

.HURRICANE KATRINA...A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED
STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969.

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT
LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL
FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY
DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.
PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD
FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE
BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME
WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A
FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

Actually, I agree with people saying this is beating a dead horse. My honest thought was "why would this shock or surprise anyone" when I saw it being passed around.

W_P, my recollection wasn't that the critics of the Bush response was that he should have somehow prevented the levee failure through some last minute personal intervention, but that he personally failed to engage the issue in any kind of practical or symbolic way, and that his FEMA director (who had no prior experience in Emergency Management) seemed to screw up every possible aspect of the logistics of support during the aftermath.

Bush then wounded himself further by declaring total confidence in said director with the whole "Heckuva job, Brownie" thing.

But I've been reminded that part of the post-incident spin work was another Bush staple, the "No one could have predicted" defense, in which case I understand why people are angered anew.

Me, I'm not really able to summon much outrage over this particular aspect of the controversy. Apparently I'm in the minority.

Here's the full timeline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Hurricane_Katrina

There were warnings aplenty from a whole lot of sources. Nagin should have forced mandatory evacuation sooner, and it would have dramatically lessened the amount of rapid-response needed from FEMA. No one can instantly conjure the amount of emergency assistance that was needed. It requires logistics, support, coordination, and planning to be properly gathered and administered. Otherwise it's just pure chaos and people would get hurt more than helped.

I never implied that Brown didn't screw up badly, or that Bush's subsequent praise of Brown's performance wasn't feckless and self-serving (like much of his administration's rhetoric). But I'm also not so small-minded as to assume he or his administration is to blame for the Katrina mess. That was a party well in progress long before August 31.

but that he personally failed to engage the issue in any kind of practical or symbolic way

Practical? He signed everything that Blanco sent his way. He signed the relief act. What exactly did you expect the CiC to do on a practical level? He appointed a FEMA guy, and trusted him to do his job. That's how it works. On a symbolic level, he gave news conferences, he made pleas, he made suggestions. What else did you want him to do?

It's shameful and disgusting that the liberals politicized (aka blamed Bush) for a natural disaster, especially for a Democrat-owned city that hasn't learned to do anything differently after 19 other hurricanes in its history.

If something similar were to happen now, Obamalinsky would say all the right things and his embedded State-Run media would hide all his gaffes, but even he wouldn't be able to speed up FEMA, which is probably just as incompetent and unready now as they were 4 years ago.

http://levees.org/

WP, while you're busy blaming the liberals for preventing levee repairs with their silly love for the wetlands, recall that it was the human erosion of the wetlands that allowed Katrina to hit so forcefully in the first place.

Kanye was right.

Bush didn't lie, he forgot.



Hey... worked for Reagan!

It is not logical to be so blindly and religiously convicted to ones political beliefs you defend a given party regardless of how indefensible and reprehensible their actions are.

it was the human erosion of the wetlands that allowed Katrina to hit so forcefully in the first place.

The reason that Katrina became a category 5 hurricane while it was still in the Gulf of Mexico was because of wetland erosion? This is a fascinating posit, and I look forward to seeing your supporting evidence.

It is not logical to be so blindly and religiously convicted to ones political beliefs you defend a given party regardless of how indefensible and reprehensible their actions are.

I concur. People should stop blindly and religiously defending Democrats like Nagin & Blanco for thier role in the Katrina mess. Their incompetence and mismanagement of the city of New Orleans, its allocated funding, and its flood control system created a precarious situation. Additionally, their reluctance to evacuate in a timely fashion cost hundreds of people their lives. The Bush administration's inadequate initial response exacerbated the problems that these democrats created. Also, environmentalist lobby groups that prevented the Army Corps of Engineers from repairing the levees share a large amount of the blame for the deaths of so many people. Incidentally, environmentalists also share a large amount of responsibility for the size and intensity of the current fires in Los Angeles.

^ I don't think I've seen anyone defend Nagin or Blanco here. All I've seen is you defending Bush, mostly by just saying it's all Nagin and Blanco's fault.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that there was plenty of blame to go around, but the President could have put someone competent in charge of FEMA from the get go, he could have made it his #1 priority to make what happened in the aftermath go well (and made a difference), and he could have taken some responsibility at some point for the mistakes people he hired made at some point in the years that came later.

Don't act like anyone who thinks Bush bears some responsibility out of the disaster is suffering from some sort of partisan blindness. We don't think he's responsible for the damage in the first place.

You on the other hand want to say that liberal environmentalists sabotaged the levees with their silly concerns about wildlife. That's fine, but don't act like it's not a horrifically awful load of partisan horseshit, especially when taken together with your argument that we should hold Bush entirely blameless for any aspect of the disaster.

All I've seen is you defending Bush, mostly by just saying it's all Nagin and Blanco's fault

You exaggerate and misstate. You cannot say I'm 'defending' Bush and ignore the following clearly worded statements to the contrary...
...the initial federal response should have been much stronger
Bush's fault ... that initial relief efforts were tepid, and that sufficient relief effort didn't arrive for a few days
Bush's fault that the first initial relief was too small
I never implied that Brown didn't screw up badly
Bush's praise of Brown ... feckless and self-serving

Neither can you justly use the absolute "all Nagin/Blanco's fault" when I said...
There's plenty of blame to go around on Katrina.

So I would respectfully suggest that your casting of my position is neither accurate, nor fair - and that you thoughtfully reconsider. What you incorrectly percieve to be a 'defense of Bush' is - in fact - round condemnation of ALL involved parties and an attempt to correct misplaced responsibility. My position is that all levels of government be held responsible for their mistakes. With Katrina, the errors were myriad, widespread, and went all the way from the top (Bush) to the middle (Brown, Blanco, Nagin) and - yes - even to the absolute rock bottom for every stupid citizen that wouldn't leave an impending disaster.

You on the other hand want to say that liberal environmentalists sabotaged the levees with their silly concerns about wildlife.

That again is an exaggeration and misstatement. I said that environmentalists have PREVENTED the necessary actions that would have reduced/prevented the problems in New Orleans and California. That is NOT the same thing as saying they 'sabatoged' the levees. That phrasing implies that I hinted they acted with active malice. Stupid? Yes. Short-sighted? Yes. Malicious? Unlikely.

your argument that we should hold Bush entirely blameless for any aspect of the disaster

See above. I never said Bush was 'blameless'. You mischaracterize me. What I say is to ascribe to Bush the PROPER blame what what he has actual responsiblity for... An inadequate initial response. That's all you can really blame him for. Everything else is on Brown, Nagin, Blanco, and citizens.

The problem I have is in the overloaded, biased, and clearly misleading hate in the language of the Sifters. The following are just a few examples of Sifters who are blaming Bush as if it was all his fault that the Katrina was a class-A snafu.

You know, of all the ***ups George W. Bush is responsible for, his Hurricane Katrina response is the one that hits me the most viscerally, even to this day.
I felt like Bush had in effect turned the richest country on earth into a third world nation, in a matter of just a few short days
Bush should have not just been impeached but executed for being to stupid to do his job!
a Cat 5 Hurricane should NEVER be blown off (no pun intended) like the president did.

All I'm saying is that it is rather silly to act like this was 'all Bush's fault' when there are TONS of other sources where significant blame belongs long before you reach Bush.

It was a nasty snowball effect. Environmentalists wouldn't let the ACOE repair the levees, so they were inadequate. People wouldn't leave the city, so there were way too many people still to evacuate. Nagin didn't force the evacuation until after the hurricane made landfall, so evacuation efforts were slowed by adverse weather. Blanco told Brown "We can handle it" as late as the 29th of August - so federal rescues didn't start until the 30th. Brown's first rollout was too small, resulting in less than adequate care. People in the city started acting like @$$holes, further complicating relief efforts. All you can really say about Bush is that - like a lot of people - his actions were too little and too late. But he's not alone in that boat.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Kanye-West-on-Hurricane-Katrina-retard

>> ^EDD:
"...And we pray for no loss of life, of course." - G.W. Bush
How is it that if this hypocritical motherfucker actually believes in the literal word of the bible, he still doesn't realize he'd be going straight to hell after his death if one actually existed? Is he really THAT retarded??



I believe the full quote is, "And we pray for no loss of life, of course, because actually doing something instead would be an exercise in wishful thinking, amirite guys?"

How are people without cars and money supposed to evacuate? Stop blaming the people for this disaster. It's the same as blaming New Yorkers for 9/11. They had already had one attack on the WTC, so they should have known better, right?

Disgusting.

They had already had one attack on the WTC, so they should have known better, right?

Disgusting.


New Orleans is a coastal city with an elevation BELOW sea level. The odds of a hurricane flooding the region is so much greater than your example that it is plain you do not care about discussing the real world. Enjoy the make believe world that conforms to what you want to believe.

How are people without cars and money supposed to evacuate?

With a cat-5 hurricane barreling at them, and living in a city that is 85% below sea level? Answer is: any way you can! Sell stuff you own to get the money to ride a bus or train... Trade goods or services for a ride... Catch a ride on the busses that Nagin & Blanco commissioned for evacuations... Ask a family member, friend, or neighbor who has a car to give you a ride... Beg for a ride... Hitchhike... Bike... Walk... They had over a week of leadup to the storm and knew for 2 days before it made landfall that it was cat-5.

The fact remains that the people had plenty of warning. They knew for over a week that Katrina was a monster and that evacuation was recommended. But a lot of them stayed because they thought it wasn't going to get 'that bad'. They made a bad situation into an even worse one because of thier decision to stay in a flood zone as opposed to buying/borrowing/begging a ride by any means necessary. They were told to evacuate. They didn't. That makes them a party in the responsibility for the aftermath.

I might add parenthetically that I live in an earthquake zone. I have 3 months of food, water & fuel storage for myself and my family. My primary vehicle has first aid kits, blankets, and emergency cash in the trunk. Quite literally I can grab a tent, toss in a few 5-gallon containers of water, be out of town in five minutes, and survive without any problems for over a week. I somehow doubt that the people who stayed in New Orleans were prepared the way I am for a disaster. But I've made my plans solid because I've lived in this risk zone for years and I have not been idle.

You guys have obviously never been poor. What poor people have access to 3 months of food, etc? Get fucking real. Your lack of compassion is disgusting. I'm glad most people all over the world got to see the disastrous consequences of your world view.

And the 911 analogy is still an apt one. Maybe those people shouldn't have been working in a building/living in a city that was a prime target of terrorists. Maybe the people on the planes shouldn't have been so passive. It's their fault, surely.