I think there should be free Community College for anyone that wants to go, but I also think college isn't for everyone, and Trade schools should also be free (I've seen plenty of plumbers that charge hourly rates more than lawyers).

As far as other colleges, there should be merit scholarships for anyone who does well at Community College can transfer to those for years 3 & 4.

I had a merit-based scholarship for my undergrad, but it was conditioned on maintaining a 3.0 GPA (B average or higher). If it went under 3.0 for two semesters, scholarship gone. Also required finishing in 4 years, so I had to take 15-18 credits every semester. I also worked part-time during semester and full-time in summers to pay down the loans (that the grants & scholarship didn't cover), so graduated debt free. I also can see I'm an exception rather than the norm.

I wouldn't begrudge anyone getting higher education. I also think some people who drop out when they are 18-22 years old, could go instead when they are older and more mature and totally succeed, so don't force it immediately after high school. Part of that is pressure from being allowed on your parents health insurance if you're in school up to a certain age... universal health care coverage (public option) would fix that and should be a higher priority than universal college. I voted for Bernie.

When my mother graduated summa cum laude from Rice University, it was one of the most respected universities in America and 100% free. Her degrees are anything but worthless. So much for that talking point.

In California, jr colleges are quite affordable, when I went it was under $250 a semester for 15+ units, all transferable to nearly any 4 year school. That’s a savings of about $80 k on freshman and sophomore years alone. The classes were small, the professors award winners, and they got to teach instead of trying to weed out 2/3 of the class like many 4 year colleges. Now in many cases 2 years of full class schedules are free in California at least. I don’t know why anyone would go to a 4 year college for freshman and sophomore year.

I didn’t care about a degree, so I stayed at jr college for 10 years taking whatever I wanted. More people should take advantage of them.

I think this argument is invalid from the standpoint of what groups of people he is talking about. The people who tend to value free education by supplementing with tax dollars tend to vote democrat. People who want to keep education expensive and withhold tax aid tend to be republican. Particularly in these modern times: the exit polls show that the more educated you are, the more likely you were to vote democrat. The most educated people seem to be electing those who would like to make education low cost.

Given this, the argument that 'education is kept expensive to keep competition down' is unlikely (though not impossible) to come from an educated person...because the statistics show that this tends to not be the values of an educated person. The educated 'club' tends to value exactly the opposite, and wants everyone to be educated.

Unfortunately the republican party seems to excel at convincing a huge percentage of their membership to vote against their best interests. The less educated republican voters you refer to have been manipulated to benefit the 'club' that Beau talks about in the video.

This holds for education, but also for plenty of other subjects, like universal healthcare, taxation, and even foreign military policy.

Truly there should be a helping hand to bright students who can't get a scholarship, loans to to to higher education.


I was poor student , didnt care about it got low grades. -- A year of washing dishes made me think find a white collar job. Dad refused to pay / help. I ended up getting student loans.

Dads motto -
IF you want something bad enough you will find a way.

Dad was a HS grad and was writing quotes for Navy Nuclear and many other million $ bids. Smartest man I know.

Paid my way through Penn State, slept on the floor, no heat 1/2 year ---- but I did it . Paid back my student loans and I am a better person for it.

higher education should place a finical burden on you - You will work harder because you can't afford to fck around.

That being said college / universities are over charging and raping students more and more every year.

? do college charge more because they know that the student can get the loan? I think so.

I think If you drop the amount a student can get in loans I sure tuition will drop to that level --- Supply and demand.

Wait a minute….didn’t you recently brag about how well your dad did in life despite dropping out in 8th grade?

Yeah, great plan, lower assistance hoping the for profit schools will do the right thing at their own expense, and if they don’t, it’s just some poor kids that don’t get an education, so a nothing burger. How Republican of you, let’s try the thing that enriches the rich while the poor take 100% of the risk.

not just the colleges that are out of line - but let's skip that...

no offense but wanting something bad isn't a guarantee. hanging from a cliff, one really wants not to be - but the reality might have a stronger pull on them.

so what about it? were the payments that made bob a better man? if it cost half as much, you'd been half the man? would find that...dubious.

know people that ace your struggle story*. not one wants that for another. if they had it easier, it would have been easier. they found very little endearing about it. yes, they strived but know they had it better than some. it's just reality. https://youtu.be/OF4JCmqF6ec

am down w/'free' education. smarter people make for smarter people. goes along w/the idea of one generation making it better for the next. (WhereTF has that gone?)

btw: bet you're right about dad. good for you. now, go get a cookie.


*or to some 'Mein Kampf'

https://theintercept.com/2022/08/25/student-loans-debt-reagan/

holds water. at the time, thought with derisive cyniscism 'why is he doing this? maybe he wants to be sure the GOP has enough voters!'

held that thought privately until it became obvious.

yeah. most enlightened (the truly bright) find education a gift that all people should be given. ben franklin, Andrew Carnegie, et al knew the deep effect of education on a people/nation/society.

'sides, doesn't do the US well to have hungry air force personnel mistakenly launch missiles when they thought the button said 'lunch'.

the whole 'worthless degrees' is largely bogus. unless it's a DJT University ratskin, just the experience alone broads a person's mind (some more/some less).

a cartoon once read where a woman lamented to her girlfriend, that as a housewife, she didn't get to use her psychology degree. her husband interrupts them complaining about the cleanness of the floors. the wife tells him she just did them and the argument goes into overdrive. finally, she chides him w/"oh! big talk! as if you could do better!" oh, of course, he takes the bait, rolls up his sleeves...and the wife's friend smilingly says "you never use it?"

don't think it ever goes to total waste.

and bk33's contention that free education would be undervalued is largely bupkiss too: the desire to pay back is often a motivation; enhances the tax base; fills jobs that translate to greater national security...etc. the value is too great to be ignored. for the country or the individual.

even if it was worthless, it still can be appreciated. like the time Bob Newhart told the story of a tryst he had w/a woman he met at a party. both drunk, ending up in the back of his car - - as he put it, "it meant nothing. never saw her again. it was the cheapest, meaningless moment that i'll never forget for the rest of my life!"

btw: an idea of what a French citizen pays at the Sorbonne
https://www.unipage.net/en/5563/paris_sorbonne_university

1) in the 50’s, the time period MAGA wants to return to, colleges were often free with higher admission standards. Do you advocate free college for anyone qualified?

2) there’s a shock

3) that goes for abortions too, if you really want it you’ll find a way, but the “ways” left are all dangerous.

4) you said he was successful despite the fact that he left high school to support his family before…but ok, now he graduated public high school, and is the smartest man you know. Telling.
My mother graduated Rice university Suma Cum Laude then returned for a masters in English. Dad graduated in the top 1% of his class from Stanford with a chemistry major, then started a highly successful international high tech insulation company making insulation for nuclear power plants in the 70’s. (Your dad may have worked for my dad. Is his name Frank F?)

5) Neither could have succeeded as they did if they had to pay today’s rates for college, or if each had hundreds of thousands in debt to pay back. Both scored 1590 on their SAT. Neither got scholarships or loans (Rice was free, dad’s parents and part time jobs paid for Stanford). Neither “fucked around”.

6) Colleges charge more because people will pay it, because a degree is an absolute necessity to be successful in the business world (unless you inherit tens of millions). If you drop the amount people can borrow for school, they’ll just accept intellectually poorer students (like you) that CAN pay. Supply and demand….that doesn’t mean you discount your in high demand product because your preferred customer can’t afford it so long as someone can. Duh.