Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

http://www.videosift.com/video/A-Peoples-History-of-American-Empire-by-Howard-Zinn#comment-371726

"No anti-war movement in the history of the nation reached the scale of the opposition to the war in Vietnam.

Not true. The opposition to the war in Iraq dwarfs the anti-war movement then by a huge margin. It's just that now the media refuses to cover the protests where before they reveled in them.

Enzo, I took it to mean "up until that time".

*waronterror

Adding video to channels (Waronterror) - requested by calvados.

again, Viggo is a bad narrator. Best stick to hobbit chasing.

Ah yes, Howard Zinn, pretentious ultra-left wing socialist theorist first and fact-free "historian" second.

For the same 'lessons' Zinn preaches, watch:

http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Communist-Manifesto-as-Told-by-Cartoons

You sometimes hit gold there QM, nice link. I have to admit that though i dont defend what America has done in the past or present and what we are going to undoubtedly do in the future i still couldnt shake the feeling of something being off in this video. Growing up i dont remember American History being secret or censored. On the contrary i endlessly heard how we slaughtered indians and beat slaves. There was no patriotic reasoning for taking the land with violence and smallpox, just that we did it. So I cant help it if my propaganda alarm goes off in the back of my head when watching this. Ill upvote because it does bring certain things to light that should be talked about, like our assassination of democratic leaders around the world but the whole "Big Bad Wolf" strategy of creating the ultimate villain i dont think is the right way to go about educating people about the past.

The cold war still rages on in the cavernous hollows of qm's mind. Try not to wake him from his mental slumber.

*quality

About the B-17 gunner Zinn had a conversation with shortly before the gunner was killed, I read some of Zinn's book "You Can't Stay Neutral" years ago, and that gunner was a communist. The communist gunner volunteered for WW2 service so he could fight the fascists (by the way: 66% of American soldiers were forced into military service. The fact that a communist American volunteered for the war effort when most Americans refused to do so is pretty interesting). So that gunner wasn't just some average GI Joe, which this video may give an impression of.

Dystop:

A guy praising class war, whether ironically or not, when there are 100 million murdered worldwide by communism speaks volumes. At which Northwestern kollij do you teach Wymyn's Hystry?

Fantastic last words.

QM - Charles Darwin was by many accounts not a very nice man. Does this make him not right?

>> ^Jordass:


I don't know how old you are nor where you grew up, but Zinn was one of the first to denounce the bad history taught in U.S. schools. So you own him at least a part of that. Also, fustigating the bad southern slave owners is a favorite past-time of everyone who don't want to look deeper into the causes and motives of the slave trade and the much more serious segregation problems the U.S.A. still faces (not to mention that in the South, many don't even talk about slavery as a problem!). When you emphasize a problem so much that you don't look at the other side's point of view, it's usually because you want to hide something: that the solution to that problem brought new as yet unresolved problems of its own, problems that you don't want to confront. What you're saying then is, "We were bad, but now we're good!". Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

*history

Adding video to channels (History) - requested by Eklek.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Viggo Mortensen, Howard Zinn' to 'Viggo Mortensen, Howard Zinn, ww2, united states, korea, vietnam, iraq, empire, invasion' - edited by Eklek

QM, you seem interested in comparing modern European style socialism to a 20th century Soviet Military dictatorship. Do you understand the difference?

Do you understand that socialism, communism and capitalism are financial -rather than political- systems?

How many people has Swedish socialism killed?

What about American socialism *gasp* such as the highway system, schools and national parks?

Whether you know it or not, qm, we are both on the same side of the American class war - and we are both losing. I don't doubt the sincerity of your arguments, but I have to wonder if you feel you've been properly rewarded for your loyalty to powerful elites who run this country. My guess would be no.

Do you ever wonder why they fill your head with so many things to be afraid of? Commies, "Hemophiliacs", Terrorists, 'Islamofascists', Old Europe, France, Fags, Feminists, Liberals, Socialists, Illegal Aliens, Educated people, Poor people, etc............

Your entire being on this site is most accurately summed up in a single word: Afraid.

I'm sure you don't see yourself this way, but have you ever put your personal beliefs to the test? Have you ever broken down your belief system to see why you believe the things you believe?

As I have said before, your arguments seldom stray from the cliche-conservative-bumpersticker variety. Why not dig deeper? Why don't you think it through and give me your own unique opinion, rather than dittoing decades of partisan-politico programing?

As those who are winning the class war might say: Just do it!

downvoted for horrible monotone narration

Jesus Christ! After that bullshit Loose Change everyone seems to think he can make some shit up, put it in a video and it will look like facts and the truth and himself will look like a new Jesus that opened everyones eyes...
But the worst thing are the people that actually believe this shit...

Leftist (even Anarchist) propaganda. Nothing more, nothing less.

Down vote for implying native genocide is relevant to current American policy and that America had imperial intentions in WW2. Mixing insightful observations with misinformation is the pinnacle of propaganda.

More over, anyone willing to swallow the notion that American intentions in WW2 were imperial after Germany conquered all of Europe and Japan attacked Pearl Harbor needs to give their head a shake. Stop drinking the kool-aid!

There are legitimate problems with American foreign policy. Like most things though, it isn't black/white or good/evil consistently across history. It's varying shades of gray all through and anyone that simplifies beyond that is being dishonest through malice or ignorance.

Nice picture of the US squid there. A nice impartial view of history...

A pan to the right however, would put a giant bear into view, ripping people to shreds, and further right, a dragon delightfully eating it's young.

I'll take my chances with the squid, thank you very much.

I'm sure most Americans would have a different opinion on the matter if you'd experience the madness of war first-hand. But then, US has never been in that situtation; your houses were never burnt down, your women never raped by foreign invaders, your friends and relatives never layed dead in the streets. On the other hand US military has been involved in every major conflict around the globe since WW1 under the guise of "exporting democracy" or some other bullshit catch phrase like "nation building". You just outsource wars like everything else and the only numbers that matter to you are the financial cost of war and american military casualties (4000+ now in Iraq). Rarely have I seen mentioned on any american mainstream TV network the real number of casualties among Iraqi civilian population (or they've been played down by a factor of 10 or more). So, please, do us all a favor and stop pretending you're the good guys here, the 50s are long gone and so is the cold war (you've ran out of excuses to invade other coutries cause no one buys this "war on terror" crap anymore). It's time to wake the fuck up and do something about it; like NOT voting McCain who's likely to start nuking Iran first month in office to get his big oil buddies what they want - access to the last fucking drops of cheap oil on this planet, that are buried under the Caspian sea basin. If he's elected president, of course. Alas the dems are just the flip-side of the same old broken record and Ron Paul chickened out of running as an independent so I guess we're all screwed either way...

^ actually such things as burning down houses and and mass-raping of civilians happened on both sides on a small scale during conflicts between the USA and native Americans.
The USA's campaign against native americans was more effective than Hitler's invasion of Poland in the following ways:
1. Percentage of the native population wiped out
2. Extent to which the invaded people assimilated and sympathized with the invader
3. Duration of control

Native Americans have more reason to become terrorists than any Saudi. Fortunately, they have gotten over what happened back then instead of becoming terrorists.

It amazes me how people interpret U.S. history as either being rife with darkness and deceit and scandal or noble and virtuous. The world is made up of imperfect people. Some are evil or selfish in their intentions or choices. Others take great responsibility and pride in their achievements. If you don't like your country, do something about it now. Don't try an warp history to better suit your ideals.

>> ^gorgonheap:
It amazes me how people interpret U.S. history as either being rife with darkness and deceit and scandal or noble and virtuous. The world is made up of imperfect people. Some are evil or selfish in their intentions or choices. Others take great responsibility and pride in their achievements. If you don't like your country, do something about it now. Don't try an warp history to better suit your ideals.


You just get a false impression of that black-and-white thinking when you hear people talk about *one topic*, and it's a particularly dark topic. The USA's invasion of lands inhabited by people who didn't want to join the USA, is not pretty.

>> ^jwray:
>> ^gorgonheap:
It amazes me how people interpret U.S. history as either being rife with darkness and deceit and scandal or noble and virtuous. The world is made up of imperfect people. Some are evil or selfish in their intentions or choices. Others take great responsibility and pride in their achievements. If you don't like your country, do something about it now. Don't try an warp history to better suit your ideals.

You just get a false impression of that black-and-white thinking when you hear people talk about one topic , and it's a particularly dark topic. The USA's invasion of lands inhabited by people who didn't want to join the USA, is not pretty.


Your right about the not pretty part. Supplying chemical weapons to Saddam, encouraging his war with Iran, continual funding of violent coups... But there are also things like WW2 and North/South Korea that aren't pretty either, but reflect well on America.

The parent poster was correct about distorting history and black/white thinking. Even the particular topic of American foreign policy is only black/white through biased glasses distorting the true shades of gray.

>> ^gorgonheap:
It amazes me how people interpret U.S. history as either being rife with darkness and deceit and scandal or noble and virtuous. The world is made up of imperfect people. Some are evil or selfish in their intentions or choices. Others take great responsibility and pride in their achievements. If you don't like your country, do something about it now. Don't try an warp history to better suit your ideals.

oh, come on, if you're gonna accuse anyone of warping history, blame your government and the media sock puppets. Zinn's not trying to be black&white, these are simply the facts that you and so many others choose to ignore, facts that will never be televised or found in school books because they are inconvenient and not very amusing either (except when briefly mentioned in some comedy talk show, accompanied by a live audience laughing their passive ignorant asses off).

Zinn's a fool. He means well, but so did Stalin.

"expanding not our military power but our humanity"; This sort of insipid, simplistic idealism is the stuff of Bush.

It's amazing what the Iraq war and two terms of the Bush administration has done to people. Many of these comments are shockingly stupid.

"A guy praising class war, whether ironically or not, when there are 100 million murdered worldwide by communism speaks volumes."

I am assuming that the 100 million number comes from The Black Book of Communism. If you actually looked at the numbers, you would've noticed that a majority (~65 million) of the deaths are due to famine. Not only are those numbers incredibly sketchy, but famines of that magnitude have a variety of causal factors. If you examined the limited evidence (regarding the famine deaths), it is really a combination of natural disasters, short-sightedness, logistical incompetence and government denial.

Now I completely agree that the governments in power are completely responsible for the deaths, but it is not unique to communism that governing incompetence has caused civilian deaths (Katrina anyone?) In the end, a catchy phrase like "communism murdered 100 million people worldwide" is really just ignorant, sensationalistic bullshit.

Mentality, please get your facts straight. What/who do you think caused the famines?
Read a history book, then come again.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Do you ever wonder why they fill your head with so many things to be afraid of? Commies, "Hemophiliacs", Terrorists, 'Islamofascists', Old Europe, France, Fags, Feminists, Liberals, Socialists, Illegal Aliens, Educated people, Poor people, etc............

Wait, we're not supposed to be scared of Hemophiliacs? But, I was told to hate Hemos. Hate them. Them and their stupid non-coagulating blood.

^Bastards just aren't human. First you tell me their blood doesn't coagulate like ours, what next? Acidic green blood? It's the only logical progression.

9/11 was provoked, but the actions that provoked it weren't necessarily wrong (the first gulf war, US bases in Saudi Arabia, and supporting Israel). The worst action of the USA in the region, the 1953 coup in Iran, actually was not part of the provocation (because Osama hates Shiites and he didn't declare war on the USA until the 90's even though he had a posse long before that).

"The cold war still rages on in the cavernous hollows of qm's mind. Try not to wake him from his mental slumber."-mental slumber, that's rich. Check a mirror, mate, we're all eye's wide shut pal.....


"QM - Charles Darwin was by many accounts not a very nice man. Does this make him not right?"
WTF point that supposed to be making, and who gives a fiddler's fuck???

"9/11 was provoked, but the actions that provoked it weren't necessarily wrong (the first gulf war, US bases in Saudi Arabia, and supporting Israel). The worst action of the USA in the region, the 1953 coup in Iran, actually was not part of the provocation (because Osama hates Shiites and he didn't declare war on the USA until the 90's even though he had a posse long before that)."

9-11 was many things, most of which have nothing to do with this paltry analysis....

Choggie: Are you one of those folks who thinks it was an inside job?


Al Qaeda does not "hate us for our freedom". Here is how Osama bin Laden explained his own motives:

"Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful. America has no shame. ... We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind. We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets, and this is what the fatwah says ... . The fatwah is general (comprehensive) and it includes all those who participate in, or help the Jewish occupiers in killing Muslims. " - Osama bin Laden May 1998
"For over half a century, Muslims in Palestine have been slaughtered and assaulted and robbed of their honor and of their property. Their houses have been blasted, their crops destroyed. And the strange thing is that any act on their part to avenge themselves or to lift the injustice befalling them causes great agitation in the United Nations which hastens to call for an emergency meeting only to convict the victim and to censure the wronged and the tyrannized whose children have been killed and whose crops have been destroyed and whose farms have been pulverized " - Osama bin Laden May 1998
"The International Islamic Front for Jihad against the U.S. and Israel has issued a crystal-clear fatwa calling on the Islamic nation to carry on jihad aimed at liberating holy sites. The nation of Muhammad has responded to this appeal. If the instigation for jihad against the Jews and the Americans in order to liberate Al-Aksa Mosque and the Holy Ka'aba Islamic shrines in the Middle East is considered a crime, then let history be a witness that I am a criminal." - Osama bin Laden May 1999
"We swore that America wouldn't live in security until we live it truly in Palestine . This showed the reality of America, which puts Israel's interest above its own people's interest. America won't get out of this crisis until it gets out of the Arabian Peninsula , and until it stops its support of Israel." -Osama bin Laden, October 2001


The last quote there apparently references the USA's military bases in Saudi Arabia, UAE and Qatar that were established during the first gulf war. The rest is about the USA's support of Israel.

For some reason this video's votes weren't recovered, maybe because it belongs to siftbot. Anyway, *promote.

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Saturday, April 5th, 2008 9:42am PDT - promote requested by kronosposeidon.

*promote

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I agree with what you're saying but it may be worth considering that Zinn was born in 1922; history may not have been taught this way when he was in school.
>> ^9058:
On the contrary i endlessly heard how we slaughtered indians and beat slaves. There was no patriotic reasoning for taking the land with violence and smallpox, just that we did it. So I cant help it if my propaganda alarm goes off in the back of my head when watching this.



I remember when I took Utah history classes when I was a kid the Mountain Meadows Massacre was still being taught as a slaughter at the hands of an Indian raid when historians have known for a very long time it was an organized massacre at the hands of Mormon settlers. This was only 12 years ago.

*quality

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by dystopianfuturetoday.

>> ^qbert:

Zinn's a fool. He means well, but so did Stalin.
"expanding not our military power but our humanity"; This sort of insipid, simplistic idealism is the stuff of Bush.
It's amazing what the Iraq war and two terms of the Bush administration has done to people. Many of these comments are shockingly stupid.


Out of all of the comments in here, most of which I didn't read, this one stood out.

What the fuck are you talking about? This comment is so non-sequitur that I get the feeling your world view is war is peace; which it is clearly not. Did you support the Iraq war? What is so shockingly stupid? Are you implying that people are stupid because they do not support war? Or the spending of tax dollars on military expansion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

Wars, the war on drugs, the war on terrorism and other wars are the biggest reason for government expansion and the destruction of civil liberties.

Don't get me started on unemployment in the private sector, and the public sector gaining employment. That is another box of spiders.

WWII was a war of economic opportunity, wrapped up in a flag... just like every other war we wage. Our policies and armies exist for one reason: profit. And that profit comes at the expense of others. We dominate the globe peddling our ideologies of free market capitalism and democracy, all brightly colored terms intended to hide the true designs of servitude, economic slavery, cheap raw materials and labor.

You know, I get both sides of the argument...

Yes, historically man (not just the US or UK) has used brutal methods of conquest and expansion for power and resources. And Yes, as an enlightened, self aware creature human-kind should be able abandon war, cruelty and harm and embrace a world of peace and discussion.

But we are a product of evolution and it is part of our genetic instinct and nature. For thousands of years that instinct allowed us to grow and learn and develop. Even with our intelligence and logic, and now we don't need it. But it's too late, it's part of the core of our species - it is buried within us to compete, and take, and hunt, and kill to make OUR tribe stronger - regardless of the expense and sacrifice of others.

Sitting back and feeling guilty and horrified - maybe change the more 'enlightened' or gracile, but the dominant instinct will still be behind the decisions of those who are in power.

Speak for yourself. I'm still waiting for the right moment to unleash my zombie horde; out of pure empathy.

Fear is a wonderful emotion. It will keep you alive. The left wants everyone to panic over water vapor and warm weather, so there's no monopoly on fear-mongering.

One of the State's legitimate functions is to defend its citizens from barbarians both inside and outside the gate.

The modern liberal doesn't have the will to lead. Whether deliberately practiced or not, s/he is incapable of taking a stand for anything and refuses to differentiate between not only good and evil, but what works (based on experience) and what doesn't (also based on experience).

The intellectual dishonesty of a zinn or chomsky helps no one.







>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

QM, you seem interested in comparing modern European style socialism to a 20th century Soviet Military dictatorship. Do you understand the difference?
Do you understand that socialism, communism and capitalism are financial -rather than political- systems?
How many people has Swedish socialism killed?
What about American socialism gasp such as the highway system, schools and national parks?
Whether you know it or not, qm, we are both on the same side of the American class war - and we are both losing. I don't doubt the sincerity of your arguments, but I have to wonder if you feel you've been properly rewarded for your loyalty to powerful elites who run this country. My guess would be no.
Do you ever wonder why they fill your head with so many things to be afraid of? Commies, "Hemophiliacs", Terrorists, 'Islamofascists', Old Europe, France, Fags, Feminists, Liberals, Socialists, Illegal Aliens, Educated people, Poor people, etc............
Your entire being on this site is most accurately summed up in a single word: Afraid.
I'm sure you don't see yourself this way, but have you ever put your personal beliefs to the test? Have you ever broken down your belief system to see why you believe the things you believe?
As I have said before, your arguments seldom stray from the cliche-conservative-bumpersticker variety. Why not dig deeper? Why don't you think it through and give me your own unique opinion, rather than dittoing decades of partisan-politico programing?
As those who are winning the class war might say: Just do it!

*promote

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