Seeing that this is in parody, I'm tempted to ask how many sausages you've eaten today.

parody of the feminism thread.
100% true.

I believe in being vegetarian for moral reasons, I tried it twice for a total of one year. My mother was a vegetarian for over ten years, but after she realized she was gonna be stuck with Dad, who is a butcher's son, she started eating meat for budget reasons. Finland isn't known for its wide variety of vegetarian foods. The tofu here sucks and .. yeah tired rambling.

Anyway in my opinion people get way too much protein for it to be healthy, the bad fat isn't worth the health risks, and people discriminate against empty calories yet don't seem to realize that's what meat pretty much is. Also, Vitamin B12 is actually a bacteria that the human body also has the natural ability to convert into different forms through some awesome natural feat.

I think it's funny that humans and domesticated animals are pretty much the only ones that drink milk beyond infancy, from what I've understood. It's incredibly unnatural.. But homophobes and alike think it's a valid excuse to discriminate the unnatural homosexuals! And better yet, we drink the milk of another species and think it's disgusting to drink the milk of our own once we're grown. How effed is that?

Hilarious post though. Especially the part about vegetarianism being a thing of the past. ( I'll be adding more later, too tired bleh )

oh, i wouldn't tell you look thin, mink.
i have no fuckin' idea what you look like.

i do agree with most of what you said.
and am aware of a bunch more that you didn't even get to.
however, none of that good information is what made you change, is it?

^hmmm... touche ... i guess i am just glad i had the psychological push that helped me quit meat and find enlightenment. i understand it's hard to just stop eating meat. i was vegan but the cheese got me back to the dark side. and yes i know dairy production is not exactly ethical.

i am not really an activist... this post, and a couple of sifts, are about the most "pro vegetarian" things i have done in my life.

also i heard some mumbo jumbo about blood types... some races / blood types have different requirements and tolerances. i don't know if i am "naturally veggie" by that theory but you know, YMMV.

But remember, you're all gonna be chinese-speaking vegans in about 2 generations anyway.
The implications of farting cows alone should make many people on here quit meat instantly instead of blathering about hybrid cars.
But it tastes nice.

Lovely.

I've tried vegetarianism a few times, as I find myself occasionally morally-guided, but I end up being hungry on the way to work and only having a Burger King between myself and four hours of hunger. So I gnaw on half of a Whopper before remembering why I don't like hamburgers that much.

When I am at home I never eat meat, but it's mainly because I don't like shelling out the money for it. It's much cheaper to buy a box of macaroni and some sauce while skipping the turkey for meatballs.

However, I will never, EVER stop eating cheese. I don't care if someone says that cheese production kills baby calves with the most painful lasers on earth while their mothers are forced to watch. I am a heartless bastard that cannot live without cheese.

>> ^MINK:
^hmmm... touche ... i guess i am just glad i had the psychological push that helped me quit meat and find enlightenment. i understand it's hard to just stop eating meat. i was vegan but the cheese got me back to the dark side. and yes i know dairy production is not exactly ethical.
i am not really an activist... this post, and a couple of sifts, are about the most "pro vegetarian" things i have done in my life.
also i heard some mumbo jumbo about blood types... some races / blood types have different requirements and tolerances. i don't know if i am "naturally veggie" by that theory but you know, YMMV.
But remember, you're all gonna be chinese-speaking vegans in about 2 generations anyway.
The implications of farting cows alone should make many people on here quit meat instantly instead of blathering about hybrid cars.
But it tastes nice.

How do you feel about people who hunt and eat there own meat? I live in Wyoming, and I can assure you that a fair number of people here do just that. During hunting season they'll take down a couple of elks and deer, butcher them up, put the meat in the deep freeze, and then slowly consume it over the year until the next hunting season. They also eat the fish they catch. I mention this because you mentioned how the meat we buy in the store is so processed, and that's totally fair. But an elk that's been eating nothing but what it finds in the forest is about as clean as it gets, and it's low in fat. Also consider the fact that animals like elk, deer, moose, and buffalo eat stuff that we can't digest (like grass, leaves, and clover), so eating their meat does not rob the Earth of grains that could feed the masses.

Just so you know, I don't hunt. I don't even own a gun. I'm just saying.

i was a full-on vegan, for a year.
because the girl i was dating was. it's not that i wanted to impress her or anything. but i wasn't going to go cooking meat in the home we shared, which to her would stink.

besides, i found it easy to walk away from anyway. truth is that the tofu-burgers and such, have now had decades to improve since their inception, and are now nearly indistinguishable.

i know one sticky point for a lot of people (though most don't actually realize it) is that it's not the eating of meat, or cheese, etc, that's immoral. because in order for an organism to live, some other organism generally has to die, even if only at the cellular level.

no, the real problem is what modern 'farms' have had to resort to, to feed so many of us, in the way we've grown accustomed to. the factory farms. it's ugly shit to look at, and thus easy to detach oneself from. having baby chicks grabbed by machines, like something out of The Matrix, so that their beaks can be half-burned-off.

but there is hope, mink. things change. even if agonizingly slowly.
and often, only when something personal finally happens.

I was a vegetarian for about 6 hours one time, I feel girlish just admitting that.

Oh well, I'll have some bacon tomorrow for breakfast to make up for it.

2 questions mink:

Have you ever tasted a fresh kill? Be it deer, rabbit, trout, or whatever? Believe me, there is nothing like it.

Do you think your choice of diet will have any effect on worldwide farming industry? Seriously? The cattle and poultry industries are fucked in a dozen ways from sunday. But your individual dietary choice has absolutely zero effect on them. If you want to change the dietary habits of our species, there are far more effective measures than changing your personal diet (and telling others about it).

my15 already noted the irony of your choice due to an incident with shellfish (was it even farmed?), so I'll only mention it in passing.

The take home message is - eat what you want and what makes you feel good. If you want to change an industry (in the U.S.), hire a lobby firm. Your personal boycott will do nothing to change the status quo.

Fresh kill and meat is awesome. In my country 90% of our dishes are based around meat (kebabs and shit man!).

I would try be vegetarian, given as someone said above that the taste differences are minuscule now, but I found that following such a diet requires a complete change of shopping and cooking. Most of all its was the limited availability of meat alternatives and their price that was the downer for me.

Unless the price levels and availability reaches levels of meat industry, I don't think I would give it a go. But then again am too fucking lazy.

>> ^kronosposeidon:
I live in Wyoming,
I don't even own a gun.

Is that legal?

hmmm some interesting points for me to try to answer...

first of all jonny, i have caught and eaten my own mackerel and trout, and it was fucking fantastic. I wouldn't do it now, because the idea of the poor thing flapping around suffocating to death in a bucket kinda makes me sad, and it's unnecessary. In fact, fishing as a child might have subconsciously freaked me out enough to make me vegetarian later.

About "fake meat" being tasty... well i don't really eat that stuff, it's processed and expensive anyway, and full of salt and sugar. that's why it's "tasty". actually since i stopped eating meat, everything else became more tasty because my tastebuds aren't overpowered by the animal fat. So different kinds of rice, potatoes, pasta, porridge... they start to taste much much nicer after a while. Obviously compared to meat they taste like cardboard, but i don't compare them to meat. Problem solved. Your brain adapts. I think this is a big problem for people who try to convert. You have to stop craving animal fat and start smelling the difference between jasmine and basmati. It's worth it.

As for "limited alternatives available" i just totally don't get this point. Why replace the meat? Just stop eating it, and eat twice as much of everything else. I have no idea why people need a "substitute". stuff an eggplant for fuck's sake. Eat a whole bucket of salad. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

It drives me insane when I am at some kind of wedding in Lithuania and the kitchen is like "you don't eat meat? do you eat chicken?" and i am like "NOTHING WITH EYES OR LEGS" and they are like "maybe fish?" and i say "FISH HAVE EYES" and they say "oh shit, what the fuck do you eat?" and I am like "EVERYTHING ELSE ON THE PLATE YOU RETARDS!".

Fact is, there's only a few kinds of meat, but thousands of vegetables. There's a cafe I go to where the only veggie option is "potato pancakes without meat"... i.e. just fried potato, nothing else. But if you order meat you get 3 different salads and some boiled rice!!! WTF! That's vegetarian food you idiots! Give me that with my pancakes!!!

The ONLY problem I have eating (even in pork obsessed lithuania) is (as someone mentioned above) when very hungry and the only choice is chemical potato chips or a meat sandwich from a petrol station or something. That sucks. I just hope they have peanuts and a banana.

about kronos' hunting friends: I do indeed think this is the only way to eat meat. The problem is hardly anyone is lucky enough to be able to do that, and if we all did that, the maximum population of the earth would be quite small. So you have to kill humans as well to make that plan work. But in the meantime, go ahead, fuck the supermarket.

And another one for jonny... my choice has no impact? Er.... my choice reduces meat sales. I don't know how to put that more simply to you.
I have a friend who has also cut out red meat after seeing me eat no meat every day without dying. UK meat sales are down. More and more Lithuanians are going veg, especially the pretty girls. My example has an impact. Small maybe, but hey, i am really not into the idea of paying thousands to a corrupt lobbyist so that they can go to a corrupt parliament and try to stop the meat industry mafia. Not gonna work. Simply don't buy, and they will produce something else. Maybe a chain of vegan restaurants.

Gradually, we are all going to go veg, and get back to the "natural" system of only eating meat occasionally, and paying much much more to have it produced properly. Meat is not healthy if you eat it at every meal in the place of a variety of vegetables.

Climate change and population pressure is going to force us to cut it out anyway, not to mention the amount of oil it takes to produce one cow. put solar panels on them!!!

Bacon, sausage, sirloin, chicken, hambuger...


Mmm mmm mmm. All so tasty. Ain't no way in hell I'm giving it up.
And yes, I do complain about people and their carbon and other wasted energy. Just because I eat meat does not mean I can't be annoyed by some asshole driving a 7,000 lb vehicle getting 10 miles to the gallon all so he can look cool.

Saying I can't is retarded.

You're right about hunting, MINK, in that there isn't enough wildlife on the hoof to sustain over 6.5 billion people, so I know it's not a solution. I mention it only to point out that there is meat out there that isn't contaminated my mass production and is healthy for you.

mg

you might be forced to give it up by economics and/or world destruction. that's my point.

and your dude in the SUV is not fucking up the planet as much as all the meat farms you pay for. so what annoys me is people who ignore the pollution caused by meat, and rag on other lesser polluters. hope that explains it.

>> ^MG:
Bacon, sausage, sirloin, chicken, hambuger...
Mmm mmm mmm. All so tasty. Ain't no way in hell I'm giving it up.

You just keep thinking that.

I was a vegetarian for six years, until I went off to college and the cook at my sorority was loathe to make vegetarian dishes for the two of us. So I switched to a "no red meat"-itarian. But even then, I only have chicken or turkey maybe three or four times a month.

I know that probably sounds silly - chicken is one of the (if not the most) mistreated animals farmed for food. I do it because I don't like the taste of red meat. The smell of bacon, sausage, pork chops... it makes me nauseous.

I do it for the taste more than anything else. And because veggies are only slowly getting into the GM market. I'm an organic kind of gal, so honestly I'm more worried about being able to buy my chicken without added hormones than the way they're treated. But hey, it achieves the same effect, right?

>> ^MINK:
mg
you might be forced to give it up by economics and/or world destruction. that's my point.
and your dude in the SUV is not fucking up the planet as much as all the meat farms you pay for. so what annoys me is people who ignore the pollution caused by meat, and rag on other lesser polluters. hope that explains it.


you think growing meat in vats would make things better? i'm kinda scared of this, and i don't eat very healthy... well, i guess it's better than living on algae bread or some vegan shit like that

>> ^MINK:
Fact is, there's only a few kinds of meat, but thousands of vegetables. There's a cafe I go to where the only veggie option is "potato pancakes without meat"... i.e. just fried potato, nothing else. But if you order meat you get 3 different salads and some boiled rice!!! WTF! That's vegetarian food you idiots! Give me that with my pancakes!!!


Potatoes have eyes...

^Its true they do , just not the seeing kind

Also it seems like a lot of the accusations you level against meat production can also be applied to veggie and fruit production.

Like with cows, large tracts of land are cleared (deforested) to make room for production. Many veggies and fruits are genetically modified or breed so they produce larger edible parts, have a longer growing period, and are more resistant to certain diseases. In order to ensure a healthy crop they're sprayed with pesticides, fertilizer, and in some cases herbicides (to de-weed framing plots), all of which have extremely aversive effects on the environment. Further more like various livestock fruits and veggies are breed and cultivated with production, shipment, and profit in mind, not the nutritional value or taste.

I have had the advantage of having grown up with parents who planted their own garden annually, so i am both privileged and cursed to know the difference between home grown tomatoes, broccoli, potatoes, cantaloupe, oranges etc etc over the crap I find in the grocery store. Like meat products fruits and veggies sold commercially are lacking in both flavor and nutritional value of the fresh 'home' variety.

As far as getting sick, over the years there have been a large number of recalls and warnings about various fruits and veggies being contaminated by salmonella, or some other horrible bacterial agent. There's one going on right now over jalapenos, it was tomatoes until those were cleared.

Its how the industry is run, meat or veggie. I don't mind if people are vegans or not, the choices you make are yours to make, but before you go claiming moral high ground you better start checking the back side of your own britches for a few 'stains'.

I'd like to see both industries undergo some major reform, even if it does end up making the cost of food go up. As it is there are many food items meat and veggie, I don't buy because the quality is crap at best. Unfortunately I'm stuck having to compromise my sense of taste for quality, because there isn't much of a fresh foods market where I live, and I don't have the capacity to grow/raise my own.

>> ^MINK:
first of all jonny, i have caught and eaten my own mackerel and trout, and it was fucking fantastic.

Wasn't it though? I just had some fresh caught trout a few weeks ago while camping in the sierras. Crazy good.

I wouldn't do it now, because the idea of the poor thing flapping around suffocating to death in a bucket kinda makes me sad, and it's unnecessary. In fact, fishing as a child might have subconsciously freaked me out enough to make me vegetarian later.

Why would that make you sad? I don't mean that to be flippant, but the depth of the conversation I'm heading towards with this might be very difficult through a forum like this.


Fact is, there's only a few kinds of meat

What? There's like a half dozen varieties of birds alone that are readily available. And if you live in the right place, you can get access to things like venison, rabbit, and other game (without hunting it yourself). And that's not even counting the immense variety of seafood to be had.

And another one for jonny... my choice has no impact? Er.... my choice reduces meat sales. I don't know how to put that more simply to you.

But your individual choice reduces sales by such an insignificant amount that it has virtually zero effect on supply or demand, and thus the farming and business practices don't change.

I have a friend who has also cut out red meat after seeing me eat no meat every day without dying. UK meat sales are down. More and more Lithuanians are going veg, especially the pretty girls.

Ok, even with reduced sales in the UK, have the common practices of ranchers and farmers there changed? If anything, I would expect large scale reduced sales of meat to cause the cattle industry to do exactly the opposite of what we would want. They would look for ever greater cost saving measures to boost their margins and offset the revenue reduction. That's just what businesses do.

My example has an impact. Small maybe, but hey, i am really not into the idea of paying thousands to a corrupt lobbyist so that they can go to a corrupt parliament and try to stop the meat industry mafia. Not gonna work. Simply don't buy, and they will produce something else.

Not all lobbyists are slime crawling blood suckers. Some of them actually do some good (think Sierra Club, World Wildlife Fund, etc.). Importantly, what they can accomplish through lobbying (not just congress or parliament, but the population in general) is on a much larger scale, and has the possibility of changing cultural attitudes, industry regulations, etc.

Maybe a chain of vegan restaurants.

Now that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Basically if you want to change an industry, you have to make it more profitable for those who adopt the changes, keeping in mind the sunk costs in the industry, which are enormous in the cattle industry.

Gradually, we are all going to go veg, and get back to the "natural" system of only eating meat occasionally, and paying much much more to have it produced properly. Meat is not healthy if you eat it at every meal in the place of a variety of vegetables.

I doubt health awareness will be a strong enough force it on its own - the U.S. is the perfect example of that not happening.

Climate change and population pressure is going to force us to cut it out anyway, not to mention the amount of oil it takes to produce one cow.

That may be - I really couldn't say. Humans are amazingly ingenious at coming up with ways to have their cow and eat it too.

My criteria for a healthy diet, is simple. Take the information available to you that kings and kingdoms would have killed for in ancient times, and avail yourself of the internet, books, and histories of the healthiest cultures in the world with regard to diet.

Nuts
whole grains
Fish oils
fresh vegetables, cooked as little as possible.

Look to Japan, to India.....but fuck all, genetics and locale come into play as well.....I would die eating only blubber for 4 months straight, of a massive coronary prolly', but exskimoos do it, and they are healthy as fuck-all, some of em......

"I live in Wyoming,
I don't even own a gun."

yeah, some folks' and their shorted-out survival circuits....whadderya gonna do.

Some folks who eat nothing, are healthy as hell, some drink only fluids, same same.....and then folks like MINK and me, would rather take a higher gustatory path with regard to availability....I enjoy good game, meat, cheese, and the stuff I grow, eat more vegs., nuts, and grains, than anything else....Key is being in tune with one's environment, and listening to one's own body.....

If I could pick one nation's model for the perfect diet, it'd be Japan. Chinese, Vietnamese, Cambodains, anywhere where population collides with regime, are goats...cultural and social scenarios dictate..... Love organ meats, don't get me wrong, but fuck man, my taste buds dictate most of the time, and some Asian cultures have big brass balls I don't want!!!!