Woo boy, this is a doozy! The fact of the matter is a video comment section is not the place to have this conversation. There's too much to discuss, too many questions from one another that are best asked soon after they're conceived, etc. I frankly just don't have the time to respond to everything you said. Don't take this as acquiescence; if you'd like to have a Zoom chat some time, I'd be down.

In any event, I'll respond to what I find either the most important or at least most interesting:

Having theories is definitely the best way to go about most of the things you consider fact (for the moment), but the fact of the matter (no pun intended) is that at some point you'll need to use some of those claims as fact/belief in order to take action. And it's just human nature to, if one believes in a claim for long enough, it becomes fact, despite all your suggestions of objectivity. It's easy to say you're a scientist through and through, but if you're really someone who doesn't believe anything and merely theorize things, I think you'd be a sad human being. But that's a claim that I leave up to the scientists.

> Yes, and I eat animals because they're delicious.

You think that's a defensible moral claim? I find that disgraceful. If you truly think your own pleasure is worth sentient beings' lives then... I don't know what to say to you. That strikes me as callous and unempathetic, 2 traits you often assert as shameful. This is my point. You sound pretty obstinate to at least a reasonable claim. To respond with just "they're tasty". You don't sound reasonable to me.

> You may be correct, but eating meat is hardly the worst thing humans are up to.

Aw, come on @newtboy, I thought better of you than to give me a logical fallacy. The fact that you're resorting to logical fallacies wwould indicate to me that either you're confronting some cognitive dissonance, otherwise why would you stoop to such a weak statement?

> I gladly discuss vegetarianism with honest people, but I'm prepared when they start spouting bullshit like " eating any red meat is more harmful than smoking two packs a day of filterless cigarettes" ...

There is a lot of scientific research (not funded by Big ___) that is currently spouting this "bullshit". What happened to your receptive, scientific, theory-based lifestyle? It's true nutrition science is a fucking smog-filled night mare considering how much money is at stake, but I find it telling that a lot of the corporations are using the same ad men from Big Cigarette to stir up constant doubt.

Again, I find it peculiar that you are highly suspicious of big corporations... except when it comes to something that you want to be true.

Again, this is my point. Take a moment, take a few breaths, and look inside. Can you notice that you're acting in the exact same fashion as the people you purport to be obscenely stubborn?

Check out NutritionFacts if you want to see any of the science. Actual science. I would hope that it would give you at least somedoubt and curiosity.

That's a true scientist's homeostatic state: curiosity. Are you curious to investigate the dozens (hundreds?) of papers with a truly non-confirmation-biased mind? How much of a scientist are you?

> I've never met a vegan that wasn't a bold faced liar in support of veganism, so I'm less likely to give them a full chance at convincing me.

This, for me, raises all sorts of red flags. That's quite a sweeping claim.

> Again, that would be long held theories in my case, and it's not hard to change them. Mad cow disease got me to change until I was certain it wasn't in America. No, I'm not recoiling. I'll listen to anyone who's respectful and honest.

So, you're willing to make decisions based on self-interest and not morality? Well, duh. Everyone does that. It doesn't sound like you had a self-reflective moment. It sounds like you merely had a self-interested decision based on the risk to your own health.

And finally, all your talk about Bob -- of course he acts, consistently, like a twat. I just don't like feeding trolls. I don't think there's anyone on Videosift who's on the precipice and would be pushed over into the Alt-right Pit by Bob's ridiculous nonsense.

> Edit: in general I agree that dispassionate fact based replies with references are better at convincing people than derision, there are exceptions, and there are those who are unconvinceable and disinterested in facts that don't support their lies.

Ironically, I think science has disproved this. Facts don't change minds in situations like this. There are lots of articles on this. I didn't have the wherewithal to dig into their citations, but I leave that (non-confirmation-biased) adventure for you. [1]

---

I knew I wouldn't make this short, but I think it's shorter than it could have been.

Lastly, I'm with @BSR; I do appreciate your perseverance. Not everyone has as much as you seem to have! Whenever I see Bob... doing his thing, I can always be assured you'll take most of the words from my mouth. [2]

[1]
Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds | The New Yorker
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

This Article Won’t Change Your Mind - The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/03/this-article-wont-change-your-mind/519093/

Why People Ignore Facts | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/words-matter/201810/why-people-ignore-facts

Why Many People Stubbornly Refuse to Change Their Minds | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/think-well/201812/why-many-people-stubbornly-refuse-change-their-minds

Why Facts Don't Always Change Minds | Hidden Brain : NPR
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/743195213

[2] This comment has not been edited nor checked for spelling and grammatical errors. Haven't you got enough from me?

Bob,

No.

I don't want Biden because he's exactly the wrong candidate at exactly the wrong time. 2020 is going to be the most important election since Reconstruction. The stakes are deadly high. The problems facing America are becoming insurmountable. I don't want to vote for Biden because he's not Trump. I want to vote for a candidate who is a pragmatist and is going to do whatever it takes to fix the damage Trump and the others of his ilk have done to America. We need someone with a backbone and balls of steel who isn't afraid to break china and stampede the horses. What we need is a Trump on our side, only one who actually knows what the fuck he's doing.

Also, fuck your boy for costing me a chance to emigrate to France.

The interesting question is: other than enraging the President from time to time, what is the Lincoln Project's goal? 85-90% of the Republican party is still behind Trump. I don't see them being swayed by Lincoln; Democrats already know what they are going to do in November--independents? Lincoln isn't doing mass TV buys---they just focus on markets where the President watches TV lol. So: bring to lay some claim to be conservatives who opposed the President to stake a role in the rebuilding of the Republican party after Trump? To claim a place at the table when Tucker Carlson becomes the 2024 Republican candidate?

What's their long-game goal?

The report cited by the HuffPost is from a New York Times story that said: “Trump himself has a small personal financial interest in Sanofi, the French drugmaker that makes Plaquenil, the brand-name version of hydroxychloroquine.”

Trump’s personal financial interest, however, does not include a stake in Sanofi–and the New York Times did not claim it did. Instead, Trump’s financial disclosures show that his three family trusts each had investments in a $10.3 billion Dodge & Cox mutual fund that owns shares in Sanofi, the world’s fifth-largest drugmaker by prescription sales. As of its latest disclosures, those holdings amount to just 3.3 percent of the fund’s holdings.

Trump’s most recent financial disclosure forms lists holdings in the Dodge & Cox International Fund valued between $1,001 and $15,000. That means Trump holds a maximum stake in the mutual funds of $45,000, giving him an indirect interest in Sanofi of $1,485 at the most.

His “financial interest” in Sanofi, which has a market capitalization of nearly $58 billion, could be as low as $99.10.






Fuck your right! Trump can make $ pushing the drug $100 bucks --WOW

Why do you believe EVERY THING the media pushes about Trump? 97% of all media is ANTI TRUMP . Your not dumb and must realize this cant be true.


Also the drug is an alternative that is being investigated. All the "BAD" effects are the same for its original intended use but still prescribed?

Orange man GOOD. MSNBC etc BAD.

More head up your ass denial from the right. Do your research...you'll find that, unlike every other president ever, Trump continues to hide his assets and refuse to divest in non-American companies. His stock holdings in Sanofi, maker of the name brand, have been uncovered, but who knows how much of his holdings are still secret? No one since his financial ties are locked door secrets. What is clear is that multiple major donors have massive holdings in sanofi and other generic manufacturers, some ARE drug manufacturers, so he has good reason to sell it even if he didn't have the personal stake that he has....he gets millions in donations he can pilfer.

FYI, a near 100% of doctors disagree, there are zero studies and only some anecdotal evidence to support Trump's self serving snake oil claims, and tons of proof that it's dangerous, has side effects that can be permanently disabling or deadly and may be worse and more likely than average Covid19 symptoms, and has not proven to be effective against Covid19. Do your research. Drugs of last resort should not be used as preventative or unsupervised medicine, or be suggested by people who know nothing but stand to benefit financially.

It's bad because it causes;
Blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
blurred vision or other vision changes
chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
cough or hoarseness
dark urine
decreased urination
defective color vision
diarrhea
difficulty breathing
difficulty seeing at night
dizziness or fainting
fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
feeling that others can hear your thoughts
feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
fever with or without chills
general feeling of tiredness or weakness
headache
inability to move the eyes
increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
joint or muscle pain
large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
loss of hearing
lower back or side pain
noisy breathing
painful or difficult urination
red irritated eyes
red skin lesions, often with a purple center
severe mood or mental changes
sore throat sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
sticking out of the tongue
stomach pain
swelling of the feet or lower legs
swollen or painful glands
trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
unusual behavior
unusual bleeding or bruising
unusual facial expressions
unusual tiredness or weakness
yellow eyes or skin
Heart failure
Death
All with no evidence it helps with Covid19

And it comes out....Trump, his family, and various republican mega donors have large stakes in the French company that makes hydroxychloroquine, as well as pharmaceutical companies (also mega donors to Republicans) who stand to make billions if the drug sees wide use.
It's unproven, it's dangerous, studies indicate it's not actually useful, but it makes Trump money. Of course your ilk are supporting it's use.

Yes, but my understanding is that the point isn't to starve the virus for hosts until it's dead, it's to slow the spread enough that hospitals aren't overrun. When they are, death rates explode, logically from 3-3.5% up to 15-20%. Of course, this plan relies on the hope that immunity is relatively full and permanent, something we don't know yet.

If people weren't morons, I would agree about parks and beaches....but they are. Even those smart enough to try and social distance in public often forget and hug goodbye, and most aren't being that smart.

The problem with sending people back is we don't have a single study on immunity. We don't know if you have full immunity after recovering from being infected, or if so how long it might last. Many other coronaviruses mutate enough that immunity is for one season at best. We need to study the virus in detail before making assumptions on life and death issues, and it's smart to err on one side of caution with stakes this high until we know. Opening up before we know is a pure gamble....the odds might be good, but the stakes are sky high.

In a near worst case scenario, it's possible that Covid19 is going to remain as dangerous as it is today for some time with reinfection possible, and that any future vaccines will need yearly changes and booster shots to be effective, like the flu shot but hopefully more effective. In that case, the best we can really do is be prepared for a constant flow of large numbers of patients and deaths. That's going to require a complete retooling and expansion of the medical system, but silver lining, it's hundreds of thousands of good paying jobs that robots can't do...yet.

Today the WHO upgraded Coronavirus to "pandemic". (Only about a month after it matched the definition)
New numbers show it's actual mortality rate is likely around 3.4% , average flu mortality is as low as .05%. (Way more testing is needed to verify that 3.4% number)

What we don't know is the rate of transmission, but it appears to be exceptionally high.
What we also don't know is that infection leads to permanent immunity. There are numerous reported cases of people being released after treatment, testing negative, then getting infected again. It's rare, and may be due to poor testing, but just assuming you can only get it once is rolling the dice with life or death stakes. I had chicken pox twice...the common misconception is that's impossible.

*promote

more tension, stakes and drama than all of season 8

Accidently posted in my own profile by quoting myself. Duh.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keep in mind that Spock was half human. Otherwise he would have just been cold AI. Only dead people are cold.

Somewhere, out there, are a group of kids in a garage learning and practicing to use the weapons they chose to fight with. They are honing their skills and putting every effort into being marksmen.

Their weapons of choice have been proven to be highly efficient and affective in a clandestine way. Not by design but by happenstance.

Their dream is to be the next big hit rock band.

What did you dream?
It's alright we told you what to dream -Pink Floyd

But to make it to the top their words and crafted notes must penetrate the heart where they will be stored and remembered when the time comes. The message:

Seems I'm not alone at being alone
A hundred billion castaways
Looking for a home -Sting

The people who are violated by those that hate are sent to a place that is very hard to reach. They only hope someone will hear them. Outside the wall.

You can hear them in music.

Isn't this where -Pink Floyd

This is where you come in. Don't forget your mighty pen. Your dream is at stake.

Unfortunately in an individualistic capitalist system the guy who's feeding his family by pouring shit in the river will fight you tooth and nail irrespective of what it means for the planet. Every other asshole is doing it why should he starve? This is why the more socially minded countries are the ones who can control themselves, as everyone feels they have a stake in it and they know they won't starve.. unfortunately the big rich countries are by definition plunderers running on greed and desperation.

It depends on what I did as a drunken minor.

I've done some stupid shit in my time, but somehow I've managed to avoid sexually assaulting anyone.

If Kavanaugh IS guilty, then fuck him. The fact that he's managed to not assault someone since then ISN'T praiseworthy, it's the literal lowest bar for basic human behaviour.

I agree that we can't really know if he did it, but my problem is with the people brushing it off as a youthful indiscretion.

Whatever about the truth of the matter, I fully agree that this is a stalling tactic being used by the Democrats, but given the potential stakes, I can't say I blame them.

Well. That explains all heads on stakes.

The problem with all these Trumptards that are protesting the NFL because a few players aren't standing for the anthem, and just want them to do their job, though they DO do their job, which is play football. Meanwhile, they were singing the praises of Kim Davis when she refused to do her job when some people came in because some people sinned differently than her.

And as to how can they can see the interview and question the Fox and Trump narrative... They will NEVER question the Fox and Trump narrative. He could admit today he colluded because he owes tons of money to the Russian mob because of his money laundering, they wouldn't care, they'd just stat spitting out the Fox and Trump narrative that at least it saved us from the Demoncrats... just look at the shirts at Trump rallies about "I'd rather be Russian than Democrat", though not too long ago, even in the Reagan days, it was "better dead then red"... now I guess being aligned with the Soviets isn't bad, so long as you aren't Democrat... of course just look at Arkansas (I think it was), where even if turned out to be true that their one guy was a child molester, they'd still vote for him over a Democrat. That is how far these people are in the Fox and Trump mindset. Like Trump said, he could shoot somebody on the street and not loose a single vote. And near 100% of those people will be out to vote this November. If moderates and liberals want any chance of change, they'll need to turn out in droves, because he's already got 30+% of the voting population locked in and voting GOP this November, because they know they got more Supreme Court seats coming, and they are honestly afraid their faith is at stake if they don't vote GOP.