Sorry to hear that. As I have mentioned before (in a couple of different posts), I also grew up in a household that was deeply troubled and violent. My grandfather was a wonderful man when sober, unfortunately he was more often than not inebriated.

I experienced multiple styles of punishment, depending on the situation. If my grandfather was drunk, he was like as not to hit me. I still have a physical reminder of that method, in that he broke my nose once. I too learned to be elsewhere when he was drunk and to fear that version of my grandfather.

In times when he was sober, or when my grandmother was able (she suffered from MS), I received spankings. I learned that if I did not do certain things, I would not get spankings. So I stopped doing those things.

Same in school, I used to be a little shithead, very sarcastic and mean. I quickly learned that if I did things against other kids, I would get a paddling. The paddling didn't actually hurt that much, but the knowledge that other kids knew I was getting swats was very effective in making me stop acting out.

Later, as I became close to 18, both the school and my grandparents moved to a more hands off style. The school because, even in Texas, people were trying to get schools to stop using corporal punishment. My grandparents because they were older, sicker, and I was larger. My grandfather basically told me that I was close enough to being a man that I was going to make my own mistakes and he wasn't going to bail me out from them. I still got punished after the fact, but it wasn't physical.

Maybe I am an outlier, but that period was probably when I was the most wild. I got in trouble with the law, made terrible decisions, and probably would have done some serious time but for the guiding principles of my eventual wife when we started dating. I feel that if my grandparents and the school had been more strict during that time, I might have not had as many close calls as I did.

In any case, I would say that both of our experiences with earlier punishment would be taking it to the abuse level. I feel that corporal punishment, justly applied, is still better than not doing it. Fortunately we all can have our own opinion on the topic, so I can understand your viewpoint as well.

As far as the screwdriver, I wouldn't use it because it is completely ineffective. However, if I did not have a lug wrench and had a tool that could apply the proper force (say a crescent wrench or lockjaw pliers) I would use that tool.

If ruling by fear is your answer, good luck with that.

I've been slapped in the face, spanked with a belt, paddle, hairbrush. All that did for me was to fear my father. He was a cop. A good cop.

What he didn't know is, all that pain just made me find different ways to not get caught. He did not know how to make me not fear him.

You decide if you want your children to fear you too.

BTW, if a screwdriver isn't the answer to remove a lug nut, why use it?

The belt isn't the answer, it is a tool. The same way physical punishments like Push-Ups are for Military discipline. The same way solitary confinement or hard labor is used as a tool to provide discipline in prison.

I do not subscribe to the notion that non-punitive punishment is effective. Offering Johnny a new game if he doesn't torment his sister is teaching him that being bad is rewarded.

In the case of this incident, the belt was used as a tool to indicate that he had broken the rules and it was reinforced later by grounding.

Conversely, she could have taken the other available option and simply called the police to report her car stolen, which it was. His being her son does not excuse him from a crime of taking a vehicle that does not belong to you. That method would not be considered child abuse according to the guidelines you propose, however it would lead to juvenile charges, exposure to the legal system, and a simmering hatred of his mother that I suggest a simple embarrassing spanking/grounding would not.

Can you take it too far with physical punishment? Absolutely, and then it is most definitely abuse. Beating a child with an improvised switch until the child bleeds is abuse. Spanking them with a belt a few times in public, which adds a humiliation factor to the punishment, is not.

Made me think of this.

Commander Leonard 'Bones' McCoy, M.D. : Spock, this "child" is about to wipe out every living thing on Earth. Now, what do you suggest we do? Spank it?

Commander Spock: It knows only that it needs, Commander. But, like so many of us... it does not know what.
---------------------

Commander Spock: V'Ger must evolve. Its knowledge has reached the limits of this universe and it must evolve. What it requires of its god, doctor, is the answer to its question, "Is there nothing more"?

Commander Leonard 'Bones' McCoy, M.D.: What more is there than the universe, Spock?

Commander Willard Decker: Other dimensions. Higher levels of being.

Commander Spock: The existence of which cannot be proven logically. Therefore, V'Ger is incapable of believing in them.

Captain James T. Kirk: What it needs in order to evolve... is a human quality. Our capacity to leap beyond logic.

Commander Willard Decker: And joining with its creator might accomplish that.

Commander Leonard 'Bones' McCoy, M.D.: You mean this machine wants to physically join with a human? Is that possible?

Commander Willard Decker: Let's find out.
----------------------------------

So, basically... V'ger needed to get laid?

Those that can kick your ass are right.

That's what I learned from spankings.

But it did make me create new ways to accomplish things without getting caught.

You'd think he'd roll over and get spanked at least some...

No, you miss the point.
Distinctions are important.
It matters hugely, recognizing the difference between violent rape and an uninvited shoulder rub, just as it matters making the distinction between a spanking and attempted murder....not just legally but rationally.

I wholeheartedly disagree that making those distinctions about gradients of wrongness in any way denies the ability to see that both are wrong.....except for the brainless who can't do both.

Public shaming IS a sentence, one that harms your job, finances, family, and future. I have no problem with fair public shaming, but lumping a bad date in with real rapists is as fair as lumping you in with kidnappers and murderers because you slapped a disobedient child's behind.

He denies he did anything to intentionally make her uncomfortable or pressure her, which is what she accuses him of.

NO SIR. THAT IS YOUR POSITION, you said until overboard sentencing becomes a problem, there's no distinction needed between bad sex and forced sex.
Yes, it's not cool, but it's also not abuse unless it is.

If, like this woman, she #metoo'd that you were an octopus that ignored all her nonverbal signals to stop, your denial wouldn't mean much, and most people would just call you a rapist....just like his denial means nothing to you and you're more than willing to let him be lumped in with rapists and abusers.

You lumped them together in your post about how making distinctions is out of fashion. It's like you said stop eating broccoli, sugar, and bacon, then balked when I said broccoli is good for you, you only meant deep fried candied broccoli. Come on.

Don't expect me to read what you mean and ignore what you write...I absolutely hate that.
Don't be sexually aggressive...do be weird.

Yes, distinctions matter immensely.

No, grading offences is proper, otherwise you put rape and going Dutch on a date at the same level because they both upset the date.

If the person goes on a long date with you, accepts an invitation to your bed, undressed and engages in sex, asks you to slow down a bit (which means continue, slower, which you do), and continues, sleeps over, and only later complains, maybe relationships aren't for HER. Her date did absolutely nothing wrong. Verbal cues trump non verbal cues in the dark 99.9999999% of the time....pretty much any time there's no gun to your head.

Parents...this is why you need to spank your children. So they don't turn out like her.
Great job by the police.

You'll have to leave the room kid, Alexa has been naughty again and needs to be spanked.

I'd just set up an inertial surge brake.

http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/25756/how-to-build-surge-brakes-on-bike-trailer

That way, you can concentrate on emergency stopping rather than spanking yourself...

It was never sold as the answer. You're flat out lying. It was never sold as that. When the entire debate began, numerous options were presented by Democrats, and they settled on Obamacare. Nobody ever said it was going to be a done deal, everything was fixed.

Said Obama on 3/22/2010:
"This legislation will not fix everything that ails our health care system. But it moves us decisively in the right direction. This is what change looks like. Now as momentous as this day is, it's not the end of this journey."

You're lying. Flat out lying. 100% Grade A BS just flies out of your mouth every time you attempt to discuss anything.

Dude, you're making assumptions I haven't gone through the process. You question OBJECTIVE FACTS! Nobody ever said that Obamacare would result in better outcomes for every single person out there. I'm not introducing what happened specifically to me good or bad, because that doesn't make neither of our cases. It's a systemic change, so it must be judged systemically. The question is did it help most people, not what happened in yours or my cases.

Of course, when you introduced your sister's case, it was so full of crap, you couldn't even make the story up right.

I'm not going to cream my pants when Hillary Clinton blows Trump out in the electoral college. I'm just going to remind you that people like you did this to the Republican Party. Just remember that. You had everything going for you circumstantially in this presidential election, and you caused the GOP to sit on its own balls, nominate Donald Trump, and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

You're gonna get spanked by the most unpopular major party nominee since it's been tracked other than the nominee the GOP itself chose. Well done!

Besides the Massachusetts bit, I like how there are half a dozen Sherlock Holmes and an Elvis in a room lined with inkjet printed paintings waiting to be spanked by masked paramilitary. I dare anyone not to enjoy that.

Are you saying she should've spank him?