>> ^Gallowflak:


The fact that there is worse abuse is not an excuse for this brutal and disgusting behaviour.
The fact that she is being excused by people who seem to be intimately familiar with childhood abuse is, at the very least, disturbing and rather eye-opening.
The brutality that the mother is willing to resort to, no less than traumatizing her own child, is revolting. This bitch doesn't need your defence, nor should she have it; we have a word for people who display such malignancy... we call them sociopaths.

I'll go so far as to say this woman is probably reaping what she sowed. A certain amount of bad behavior is learned from bad parenting. But if you think children are raised in a perfect world where they listen to everything you say without question and never act out, and that the solution is rationalizing and giving them a hug then you're living in a dream. Seriously, you were sold some tsunami insurance for property in Colorado and the best part is you don't even know it. What f*cking Rousseau wet dream did you slurp off the floor? I dare you to raise a kid without limits and not call him a sociopath. Pull your head out and try a cold shower with some hot sauce. It's not bad. At the very least it's not worth your judgement. Half the world's population would beg for fresh water and hot sauce on a regular basis, this kid gets it for punishment. This was not trauma. This was a kid wailing because he got caught. What this kid got was discipline and structure. If you can't recognize the difference then God help your kids, because you can't.


But this is all moot. The woman broke no law, left no physical mark, and was within her rights as a parent. That means all willing to cast stones should put their nose someplace else. Gallowflak's "Fuck you" is a nice warm steaming pile to start with.

@Crunchy @Hive13 @spoco2 @Gallowflak @Sagemind @calvados @Reefie @Pantalones

I'm with reefie and pantalones on this one, yes I got my mouth washed out with soap but I also had a pair of boxing gloves thrown at me and strapped on while I got my ass kicked "so you dont hurt me." I'm not saying that everything here is exactly right; but the punishment was mild at best.

I don't particularly think that she's ridiculing him, the hot sauce and cold shower seem like alternative corporal punishments that have been established as consequences for the behavior. It seems like she's simply following through with said consequences.

Idk about everyone else, but i'll take hot sauce (something actually edible) over Dial soap and a cold shower (something uncomfortable but not really outright painful) over a belt or a punch to the face any day. So to be clear, to those calling this "abuse" I think you can find much much better examples of abuse that fit the definition of that word more precisely than what we have here.

Just for saying's sake, lets go with the best definition from freeonlinedictionary "To hurt or injure by maltreatment" or to take it a step further, lets look at the actual documents that define abuse in US courts: http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/whatiscan.cfm

I had a hard time finding anything on the childwelfare site that fit what happened here and defined what happened as abuse. On the other hand, when the site says under emotional abuse: "Permitted other maladaptive behavior—encouragement or permitting of other maladaptive behavior (e.g., chronic delinquency, severe assault) under circumstances where the parent or caregiver has reason to be aware of the existence and seriousness of the problem but does not intervene."

I would argue that if she did nothing in this situation that she could be complicit in committing emotional abuse (as defined by the child welfare site) but if the kid acted out at school and she did nothing I sincerely doubt anyone would be "not watching" for fear of what you might see (a kid not being receiving a consequence for bad behavior and lying). The punishments, although a bit unusual, are not anything to write home about. Those of you who disagree, I encourage you to prove me wrong with some legal citation (you know, instead of just saying "fuck you" ala Galoflak).

>> ^Pantalones:
That was pretty weak. Hot sauce and a cold shower? Please, I'd have taken that any day. Y'all need to see some real child abuse before you accost this woman as the spawn of hell. She was in control of her actions and the consequences sounded like they were predetermined.
Here's a measure of rationality: you're siding with Dr. Phil.


I mentioned getting mouthfuls of fairy washing up liquid when I lied or swore as a child, but didn't mention the thick leather belt with the huge buckle my mother kept for special occasions (well, mostly when she was drunk or in a bad mood so most of the time really), or the cane that my headmaster used for giving pupils 6 of the best (even the best behaved boys and girls could expect to be caned once a month). Did I mention we were also forced to take cold showers in the morning at school? Yes, it was a boarding school but thankfully a co-ed so it wasn't all bad Must've been worse for the Eton boys! I can take it, and I reckon most people who grew up with such abuse can too. Mind you, our definition of child abuse can be very different to the extremes of abuse in some other countries.

What I find hard to decide in any absolute terms is how much punishment is necessary to make people aware of the consequences for their actions. While I would never go to extremes with leather belts or canes I think there is a balance to be found for each individual child. Having said that, some things are just torturous and really aren't necessary. Finding the right balance of unpleasantness as a consequence is something that has to be decided and warranted for each wrongful act. Premeditated consequences like this only enforce a mental conditioning that prevents the child being able to properly express himself in later life.

To all those who are saying that a cold shower and some hot sauce is nothing - I believe you are wrong.

Yes, we do stuff like that to our friends - as a joke, Ha Ha.

That isn't what this is!

This is a child. The only thing he is feeling at this moment is fear.
Not the fear of letting someone down - as in, yes I got a card, I'm sorry, I screwed up - all I ever want to do is please you - because I love and respect you.
This is the , No Mommy, No mommy, Please don't, I trusted you, you were supposed to be the only person who would understand me type of fear. The feeling of betrayal, shock, utter dread, wanting to shrink into a fetal ball and hide type of fear.

This kid is only about 7 years old. A parent does everything they can to protect their child from experiencing this kind of fear. That's the job of a parent. "Protector!" Not by duty, but by instinct and love for your child.

If this causes tears, anger and utter rage in the eyes of people who are not this kids parent, just think what we would do if that was our child or your child). You'd not only want to rip out that woman's throat, you'd do it! Think about it, if you wouldn't let other people do that to your child, why the hell would it be OK for her to do it to any child, especially her own!

Not only is she using a punishment. She is using it to ridicule and belittle him, combined with the torturous punishment, and yes, it is torture to that child. She is striping him of right he has - and yes he has rights, every human being has.

I'll take a quick beating and a hug over psychological torture any day...>> ^Stu:

uhh ya, that's not much for people to be crying over. Nothing physical, some mental punishment. Call me when the kid is screamed at and thrown threw drywall. He can join the club.
Side note, hot sauce is delicious.>> ^Gallowflak:
>> ^Pantalones:
That was pretty weak. Hot sauce and a cold shower? Please, I'd have taken that any day. Y'all need to see some real child abuse before you accost this woman as the spawn of hell. She was in control of her actions and the consequences sounded like they were predetermined.
Here's a measure of rationality: you're siding with Dr. Phil.

Uh-huh.
Fuck you.

[redacted]

>> ^Esoog:
This is about a woman being the worst possible parent she can be. The scary thing is, I have a feeling that she didnt come up with this idea on her own. Im feel sad that someone probably said to her "have you tried giving him hot sauce and cold showers?!"
Sigh. That was hard to watch. Id actually watch that episode of Dr. Phil just to see what she had to say.

The sad fact is that she is not the worst possible parent she can be.

She's not selling her son as a prostitute to pedophiles.
She's not feeding him hallucinogens or depressants just to see what would happen.
She's not letting him starve to death while she plays FarmVille.
She's not throwing him through a wall (as someone else alluded to previously).
She's not doing any of a gajillion things that would make her a worse parent than what she displayed in this clip.

Is she a good parent? Not by any means.
While a cold shower might be an appropriate way of getting the attention of a stubborn child, having them hold hot sauce in their mouth for a full minute is not. That's abusive.


The goal of disciplining a child is twofold:
1 - To reinforce that there are consequences for a child's actions.
2 - To get the child to consider their actions and why they were wrong.

One offense was fighting over pencils. Does the hot sauce punishment accomplish #2? How about the cold shower?
I think we can agree that they accomplished #1, since the boy knew that was coming.

Another offense was the lie he told.
Now, one could argue that the hot sauce is a suitable punishment for the lie. It's twisted logic, as the burning feeling in his mouth is the consequence for using the same mouth to tell lies. I still don't find it appropriate, but I can at least understand the logic.

Bad parent? In my opinion, yes.
Worst parent ever? Not even close.

WTF are you assholes going off on a religious rant? This has nothing to do with religion...there are plenty of religious and non-religious nuts out there. Both sides have plenty of crazies.

This is about a woman being the worst possible parent she can be. The scary thing is, I have a feeling that she didnt come up with this idea on her own. Im feel sad that someone probably said to her "have you tried giving him hot sauce and cold showers?!"

Sigh. That was hard to watch. Id actually watch that episode of Dr. Phil just to see what she had to say.

I don't think hot sauce or a cold shower are really the problem here. What's sad is that the boy is obviously terrified of confiding in his mother and chose to lie because of it. Apparently she doesn't understand that and only makes it worse for him.

Also, I suppose "pulling a card" means being marked down for doing something wrong at school. The mother doesn't even seem interested in hearing his story about the incident, or in him understanding why what he did was wrong. Instead he just gets general punishment for "the card". Apparently she wants him to grow up doing what people tell him to do so he doesn't have to eat hot sauce, instead of being able to differentiate between right and wrong.

I guess you could draw parallels to religion, but I don't see a real connection here. It's just bad parenting.

uhh ya, that's not much for people to be crying over. Nothing physical, some mental punishment. Call me when the kid is screamed at and thrown threw drywall. He can join the club.

Side note, hot sauce is delicious.>> ^Gallowflak:

>> ^Pantalones:
That was pretty weak. Hot sauce and a cold shower? Please, I'd have taken that any day. Y'all need to see some real child abuse before you accost this woman as the spawn of hell. She was in control of her actions and the consequences sounded like they were predetermined.
Here's a measure of rationality: you're siding with Dr. Phil.

Uh-huh.
Fuck you.

>> ^Pantalones:

That was pretty weak. Hot sauce and a cold shower? Please, I'd have taken that any day. Y'all need to see some real child abuse before you accost this woman as the spawn of hell. She was in control of her actions and the consequences sounded like they were predetermined.
Here's a measure of rationality: you're siding with Dr. Phil.


Uh-huh.

Fuck you.

That was pretty weak. Hot sauce and a cold shower? Please, I'd have taken that any day. Y'all need to see some real child abuse before you accost this woman as the spawn of hell. She was in control of her actions and the consequences sounded like they were predetermined.

Here's a measure of rationality: you're siding with Dr. Phil.

When I was a kid it was normal for my peers and I to receive a mouthful of fairy washing up liquid if we swore or lied, so I can sortof understand but only up to a point. Being instructed to keep the hot sauce in the mouth for more than 5 seconds and then following up with a cold shower is going way too far.

Personally I think that children and young adults need to be made aware of the consequences of their actions and normally I'd welcome small punishments that reinforce the point of lying being unacceptable, in this case though the mother has obviously lost the respect of her child because she has demonstrated cruelty on a repeated basis. There's a whole world of difference between punishment and cruelty and this woman obviously doesn't get it.

My mom used to "wash" my mouth out with soap as a child. Being very tired of that hackneyed symbolic gesture and wishing for it to end, I pretended like I enjoyed it. I really didn't, but she had to try something else. Hot sauce was the next "punishment".

...I just ate a large burrito about 20 minutes ago...it had lots of hot sauce. From that point on, discipline was a tasty ritual in the Draper household.

That's the best Chalula hot sauce commercial I've seen.