carnivores, unlike humans (who eat flesh, dairy and eggs for reasons of pleasure) require flesh to live. if you check out the article i posted along wit h this one, they will greatly increase your awareness about these issues:

freefromharm.org/common-justifications-for-eating-animals/animals-eat-animals/

carnivores, unlike humans (who eat flesh, dairy and eggs for reasons of pleasure) require flesh to live. if you check out the article i posted along wit h this one, they will greatly increase your awareness about these issues:

[url redacted]

they look like a cross between flesh eating zombies and scary Japanese Shōjō ghosts, awesome dancing.

One wonders, however, if it's strong enough to clean the asshole off BK33... \= |

@Payback, there was another video recently of the rustcleaner where the operator put their finger under the beam actively cleaning rust with no obvious ill effects. Not sure how/why that happens but I didn't see smoke or BBQ so it seems pretty flesh safe.

One would assume it is also efficient with skin off flesh...

I hope you don't feel like that I'm pushing anything onto you. I'd like to just present the facts. I wasn't vegan until I turned 33, so I'm certainly not judging or trying to give out this information in order to put anyone down or elevate myself. I'm not trying to troll, I'm not trying to out-do you. I'm also typing this with limited time, so apologies if some of it sounds frank. (The videos below do a better job than me anyway).

1) A proper plant based diet makes it 8 times less likely for cancer cells to grow. There is a reason why 3rd world countries (that have largely plant based diets due to poverty) don't get cancers us westerners have. Also the #1 killer in the western world is cardiovascular disease, in the US alone one person dies every 8 seconds from it. Which is around 400, 000 people a year.

I know you're sceptical. I was too. So here's some actual science from actual doctors, who have come these conclusions on proper peer reviewed and non biased / industry funded research:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rNY7xKyGCQ2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZtPGyLaiHE1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYTf0z_zVs03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XVf36nwraw4


2)Vegans aren't anti-choice, they are pro life, pro planet. The actions of people eating animal products goes way further than a person choosing to eat something(sure they are typically ignorant of the consequences, as most of pre-vegans were too). When a large portion of the planet chooses to eat animal products it effects everyone, because it's destroying the planet through global warming, deforestation, dumping of animal agriculture waste and so on. It kills more animals than just ones being brutalised in cages. It will eventually kill us too. To me it seems like a bad idea to destroy the only place in the universe that we can currently live.
So by eating animal products you're really making a choice for you, for me, for my hypothetical grandchildren, and of course for the animal that almost certainly wants to keep being alive. So as a vegan I'd like you refrain for making choices that impact my life, and I'm standing up for the voiceless animals who would certainly object to your choice too.

3) As you (hopefully) saw in at least one of the videos above, there is nothing in meat which cannot be obtained from a plant source (and without all of the bad stuff that comes with meat).



Your idea of a farm with humanely raised animals is a good start, but it's just not practical, the earth isn't big enough to meet demand. It's also still highly unethical as you still kill the animals at an early age in order to harvest their flesh.

You have a picture of two dogs in your avatar. I'm sure if someone decided to schedule their lives to end early for any reason, let alone to eat them, you'd find that pretty immoral right? You no doubt treat your dogs very well, but that doesn't make it OK to kill when they reach adolescence. If I said I wanted to eat your dogs (I don't of course) then any reason you came up with applies still to any farm animals that you currently feel fine with eating.

The animals also aren't stupid and they're aware of what's going on. My grandparents owned a massive farm with cows/pigs/rabbits/chickens and crops as well. They were living very comfortable lives as far as farm animals go, but they did not like it when you approached them, they knew what was waiting for them.
When you see typical farm animals that are truly free this is what they look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIF3BYBXZWA
They behave like pets, even cows kick a ball around.

Also cows milk is only created for when the cow is pregnant. Even if the cow is living in cow utopia, if it is getting milked then that's milk that should have gone to a calf. It was most likely artificially impregnated, and also most likely bought from someone that breeds female cows, and kills the male cows (since you only need one bull to harvest the semen).
When you really think about it, even the best treated animals are being breed and used to make someone money as the primary goal. That is immoral.



So what it really comes down to is taste. The ethics, the environmentalism, the health don't play a role in the debate at all, and hopefully one of those things is important to you, perhaps all 3.

Being animal product free isn't as hard as you think, it's as simple as swapping out a few ingredients here and there. It's not all about eating broccoli and kale. You'll still be eating burritos, burgers, pizzas, pastas, curries etc. Just slightly different and before you know it, you'll barely know the difference, and eventually prefer them that way.

And this is probably the part I found the hardest to believe myself, but once I knew about it, veganism became the easiest thing in the world. Taste is completely influenced by the foods you eat, because of brain chemistry. I thought I could never stop eating two things: cheese and chocolate. After about a month of not eating them (and yes it takes a little bit of effort towards the 3 week mark) you will break the dopamine effect in your brain and you'll never want to eat them again. I can eat vegan cheese and dairy free chocolate, but it does absolutely nothing for me these days. This is coming from someone that wouldn't eat regular chocolate, I had to have the good stuff, everyday. The cravings get pretty intense at the 3 week mark, I won't lie, but then one day you realise you've not had the cravings for several days.
When it comes to meats, even if they are well done, all I can smell is oil and blood. Eggs all I smell is sulphur. I find all of that quite repugnant and I see them for what they really are, rather than what my dopamine recepters tell me.

Now of course you can be unhealthy vegan, and eat all of the oreos, chips, and dairy free chocolate you want. That's up to you, either way the planet and animals don't care which way you go about it

Let's not forget to mention how incredibly diluted consumer-grade Hydrogen Peroxide is...~2-3%, so your image of dousing your open flesh to this caustic substance is missing how much is simultaneously being flushed out with common (but effective) H2O before you hit the tap.

your stance about veganism is very similar to the climate deniers in that you choose to buy into myths and lies as opposed to looking into the facts youself. the documentary i posted considers the issues of local, and so called "small" farms also. they are no more humane or less cruel than so called "factory farming" and are every but as inefficient and environmentally devastating. "factory farming" is a mere symptom and the root cause is the commodification of sentient non-human animals, just as in the past humans used to commodify other human beings of certain races. for example here is an article on the myth of "humane" animal farming: http://freefromharm.org/animal-products-and-ethics/factory-farming-alternative-farming/

the fact that climate change is driven in large part but the raising of non-human animals for food is without question a well documented fact. the human population is without a doubt a major factor but above this issue is the fact that it requires MANY times the resources to produce on calorie of flesh, dairy or eggs than it does to produce one calorie of plant based food. are you aware that in the USA, around 80% of crops grown are fed to the 10 billion farmed animals who are murdered every year for food? it has been estimated that 800 million humans could be fed on the crops which are grown for farmed animals alone. these issues are also gone into detail in the documentary.

as far as "tugging on your heart strings" goes, how is having compassion and empathy for anyone who suffers a bad thing? no one would be questioning it if the victims were human children but since they are "only" cows, pigs chickens and fishes (all of whom feel pain just like you or i do, perhaps even more so), suddenly violence against them is considered a matter of personal choice. the bottom line is that if you would not wish to expeience something yourself, it is never moral or ethical to force others to experience it, especially not in the name of a momentary taste sensation.

finally, here is a quote which i think best summarizes the situation:
“Aren’t humans amazing? They kill wildlife – birds, deer, all kinds of cats, coyotes, beavers, groundhogs, mice and foxes by the million in order to protect their domestic animals and their feed. Then they kill domestic animals by the billion and eat them. This in turn kills people by the million, because eating all those animals leads to degenerative – and fatal – health conditions like heart disease, stroke, kidney disease, and cancer. So then humans spend billions of dollars torturing and killing millions more animals to look for cures for these diseases. Elsewhere, millions of other human beings are being killed by hunger and malnutrition because food they could eat is being used to fatten domestic animals. Meanwhile, few people recognize the absurdity of humans, who kill so easily and violently, and once a year send out cards praying for “Peace on Earth.”~ David Coates

I was kinda hoping for devolved humanoids with half blind greyish eyes sniffing, barking in the dank caverns, and murdering each other in proximity to you as you flee, crawling on your hand and knees with its nails still freshly embedded in your flesh.

While i refuse to watch this crap, i still have one question: Does she want to kill all flesh eating animals & bacteria too or just flesh eating humans?

Besides that ... crazy person is crazy. Nothing new under the sun.

So then again, what is a "need" for humans? We have already went over the fact that water, food, etc., those are not "needs", as suicides definitely prove. In essence, humans, as thinking creatures, need nothing. The word "need" then becomes a useless word that we need to throw away

And the abuse thing came about one of two ways. Either Choas had very bad timing and wrote a response directly to my post about my mother in law "needing" her church on accident, or he did it on purpose. Either way it was a direct reply, and I simply asked him how he knew what she could or couldn't do. I feel that is like a person telling rape victims to get over it--with help of course...yeah...um...not cool...believing the magic cool aid that we can do anything if we just believe hard enough is logically fake. Like a big man in the sky who sends his flesh to free us of sin.

B) What I was saying is that if he had been through abuse, I would respect his past and stay quiet. But if not, he has no right to tell other people how to live their lives, deal with their problems, or get over stuff.

I wish he would come to my place. I have 30 apple trees, all different varieties, and most of them end up in the compost. I would be glad to let him come take them away.
The red flesh apple was probably a 'pink pearl'. I have one of those trees, I like to give those apples away around Halloween. Most of the rest of my trees aren't identified.

No need for snarky. I argued your point but less one-sided. Yes, America is too quick to put bullets into flesh and blood. And yes, I agree this was a dumb risk they took. But it was their risk, and it paid off. If this was the stock market, they would be rich.

Hey Rflagg, you asked a good question. Why, if you believe that you do here will effect your eternity, would you live according the system of this world? Jesus gives us an answer:

Matthew 6:19-21

Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.

But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Your heart condition will determine how you live. If you love God with all of your heart, you will live for Him and His Kindom, and your life will reflect that. If your heart is for the things of this world, that is what you live for. This is why the scripture warns us:

1 John 2:15-17

Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

For all that is in the world--the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not from the Father but from the world.

The world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God remains forever.

When it says do not love the world, it doesn't mean the people of the world, but the system of the world. If you live in the west you are used to seeing nominal Christians practicing a lukewarn faith. This isn't how it is in many parts of the world; there are many Christians out there with their eyes set on eternity. Many Christians here in America, as well, but they don't sound a trumpet before themselves so you don't see them.

This video, like many others, has such a mistaken view of what the scriptures say about faith; it is referring to a blind faith whereas the scripture calls us to believe based on what God has revealed to us. There is a living God who reveals the truth of His word, and everyone who is seeking Him will find Him.