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The Illusion of Truth - Veritasium
ahimsa“What would you do if you found out that everything you know, everything you believe, everything you’ve been told since you were a child was a lie?"
"And not just any lie, but one carefully crafted, finely tuned, expertly executed, and deliberately designed with the express purpose of assuring you that wrong was right, that bad was good, and that violence was love."
"A lie powerful enough to manipulate you into taking part in horrific and barbaric acts that you’d otherwise find appalling. Powerful enough to wash blood from your hands; to alter your perception so severely that murder appears mundane and compassion becomes extreme.”-Emily Moran Barwick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLmIqdlomtuStFtMawXWLcH9Ia2TFFkDZ3&v=kUTgZ7s_hiw
What Happened Before History? Human Origins in a Nutshell
ahimsahttps://www.scribd.com/doc/17111888/Science-Verifies-That-Humans-Are-Frugivores
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsa“Passively accepting these beliefs, carnists take pride in eating “cage- free” eggs, hams from “free” pigs, cheese from the milk belonging to “humanely raised” cow’s calves, and legs from “free” dead chickens. These consumers have become washed into believing that a little improvement in egg, meat, and dairy production has stopped the harm. They settle for the slight inconvenience of choosing and paying for a different box of eggs or a non-factory-farmed slab of meat. They believe in happy death, happy meat fantasies, and thus find escape from doing what is really needed. They avoid true and effective personal change.”-Will Anderson
No. There are MANY ways to stop it. Eating only non-factory farmed, humanely euthanized meats, for instance, makes one non-complicit in the (admittedly terrible) factory farming techniques.
Not all farms are factory farms, and not all use those techniques.
Wrong. Those things you list are valuable things. Slaves, valuable. Food, valuable.
There are humane ways to treat animals. Animals don't all have the need for 'freedom' that human beings do....some do, but those animals were not domesticated.
nutritionfacts.org is a propaganda site created by a vocal vegan who's been ostracized from the scientific community for massive exaggeration and cherry picking data to make his claims. It's not scientific, it has no affiliations with other science organizations, it misuses scientific data to make a pre-conceived point.
Nice, so at least you admit that humans are more healthy (full-body strong) if they eat meat. Thanks 300lbvegan!
EDIT: The best way to get fewer people to eat meat...STOP MAKING SO MANY MORE DAMN PEOPLE! If there was a reasonable population of humans, there would have never have been the 'need' for factory farms or other animal/ecology abuse. My progeny will NEVER eat a smidgen of meat, 100% certain, can you say the same?
Do you realize that, in order to farm enough food for all humans to be vegetarian, you have to create far more farmable land, which in turn removes habitat and kills millions of native animals in ways more painful than execution, right? yes, meat production does too, but the point is that you also kill animals to get your vegis, but you just let those dead animals go to waste.
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsa"Is Meat Sustainable?
M E A T
Now, It’s Not Personal!
But like it or not, meat-eating is becoming a problem for everyone on the planet. "
worldwatch.org/node/549
No. There are MANY ways to stop it. Eating only non-factory farmed, humanely euthanized meats, for instance, makes one non-complicit in the (admittedly terrible) factory farming techniques.
Not all farms are factory farms, and not all use those techniques.
Wrong. Those things you list are valuable things. Slaves, valuable. Food, valuable.
There are humane ways to treat animals. Animals don't all have the need for 'freedom' that human beings do....some do, but those animals were not domesticated.
nutritionfacts.org is a propaganda site created by a vocal vegan who's been ostracized from the scientific community for massive exaggeration and cherry picking data to make his claims. It's not scientific, it has no affiliations with other science organizations, it misuses scientific data to make a pre-conceived point.
Nice, so at least you admit that humans are more healthy (full-body strong) if they eat meat. Thanks 300lbvegan!
EDIT: The best way to get fewer people to eat meat...STOP MAKING SO MANY MORE DAMN PEOPLE! If there was a reasonable population of humans, there would have never have been the 'need' for factory farms or other animal/ecology abuse. My progeny will NEVER eat a smidgen of meat, 100% certain, can you say the same?
Do you realize that, in order to farm enough food for all humans to be vegetarian, you have to create far more farmable land, which in turn removes habitat and kills millions of native animals in ways more painful than execution, right? yes, meat production does too, but the point is that you also kill animals to get your vegis, but you just let those dead animals go to waste.
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsagorilla's & bonobo's to whom humans are very closly related eat almost exclusively plants.
here is a comparrison between shows that humans are anatomically herbivorous:
Facial Muscles
CARNIVORE: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
OMNIVORE: Reduced
HERBIVORE: Well-developed
HUMAN: Well-developed
Jaw Type
CARNIVORE: Angle not expanded
OMNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HERBIVORE: Expanded angle
HUMAN: Expanded angle
Jaw Joint Location
CARNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
OMNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HERBIVORE: Above the plane of the molars
HUMAN: Above the plane of the molars
Jaw Motion
CARNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
OMNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
HERBIVORE: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
HUMAN: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Major Jaw Muscles
CARNIVORE: Temporalis
OMNIVORE: Temporalis
HERBIVORE: Masseter and pterygoids
HUMAN: Masseter and pterygoids
Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
CARNIVORE: Large
OMNIVORE: Large
HERBIVORE: Small
HUMAN: Small
Teeth: Incisors
CARNIVORE: Short and pointed
OMNIVORE: Short and pointed
HERBIVORE: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
HUMAN: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Teeth: Canines
CARNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
OMNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HERBIVORE: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
HUMAN: Short and blunted
Teeth: Molars
CARNIVORE: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
OMNIVORE: Sharp blades and/or flattened
HERBIVORE: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
HUMAN: Flattened with nodular cusps
Chewing
CARNIVORE: None; swallows food whole
OMNIVORE: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
HERBIVORE: Extensive chewing necessary
HUMAN: Extensive chewing necessary
whale.to/a/comp.html
You are once again mistaken....
Real verified stats are had to come by, but: "In the coral reef community there are many species of fish which fill this ecological role: roughly 25 percent of the fishes are herbivores or make plants a part of their diet/omnivores (Deloach, 1999)."
That's just fish, far more abundant than land animals by number or biomass, as a group are at least 75% carnivore (not omnivore).
"obligate carnivore" is not honest, scientific, or reasonable. That means 10% CAN'T eat plants, not that only 10% does. Most animals are neither pure vegetarian or carnivore. I know vegans have a history of ignoring omnivores as a category, because it erases their positions/arguments, but that doesn't mean it's not a major category, in fact it's THE major category.
Herbivores have digestive systems designed to break down cellulose. Humans have one stomach, not designed to break down cellulose, so if it's a choice between carnivore or herbivore, biologically we are carnivores, which makes removing the omnivore category just plain silly for vegans.
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsa“It is a healthy, natural reaction for someone who witnesses the brutalities inflicted upon nonhuman animals in the agriculture industry for the first time, to ask, "how can we stop this from happening?”. The simple truth is that there remains only one answer, only one way to stop it from happening. We must end the consumption of animal-based products. Until then, nonhuman animals will always be placed in "livestock" conditions, they will always be exploited, they will always be abused and they will always be slaughtered. You cannot teach someone that a life-form has any real value when it is considered acceptable to enslave, kill and eat said being. Whilst humanity views nonhuman animals as resources, mere commodities, they will always be victims of our barbarity. There is no "humane" way to treat a slave and there certainly is no "humane" procedure to take a life.”
nutrtionfacts.org references only peer reviewed research. it is a not-for profit which gives away everything for free and has no goal other that providing accurate information. if anything, the one's who are distorting thetruth and studies are the one's who profit greatly off the suffering and death of non-human animals.
from a 6'5" 300lb pro football player:
“I can honestly say that being vegan is not only the most efficient way to be full-body strong, it’s also the most humane; everyone wins.”
the300poundvegan.com
So how about rail against factory farms and stop assuming all meat is the same, is mistreated the same, is executed the same, and is full of the same unnatural additives, and stop railing against people who eat meat.
As I've told your cohort, you would do FAR better to try to convince people to eat humanely raised and executed meats than you ever will convincing them to not eat meats, especially when your main methodology is to try to shame them into your position. That rarely works, even if you're a Jewish mother, the queens of guilt.
Nutritionfacts.org does NOT meet the requirements I put forth. It's a private pro-vegan propaganda site, not scientific. Here's what's said about it by scientists...."Greger's promotion of veganism has been criticized for including exaggerated claims of health benefits and for cherry-picking research even though the vegan diet can be a healthy one"
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsayou are once again mistaken. only approximately 10% of non-human animals are obligate carnivores. common sense tells you that it cannot be a high number as it would not be sustainable otherwise.
factory farmed or not, other sentient beings suffer and die for no other reason than a momentary taste sensation. unlike the Masai (of whom i have never heard of but am taking your word) all you have to do to greatly lessen the harm you do to others is to buy different products in the grocery store.
speaking of science, here is what a very wise man had to say on this subject:
“It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the human temperament would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.”—Albert Einstein
“Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.”—Albert Einstein
“Vegetarian food leaves a deep impression on our nature. If the whole world adopts vegetarianism, it can change the destiny of mankind.”—Albert Einstein
“If a man aspires towards a righteous life, his first act of abstinence is from injury to animals.” -Albert Einstein
You've bought the bullshit.
We are not the only omnivore. Many animals that can survive without meat eat it. They have a choice, they choose meat. All dogs for instance.
You make the mistake of assuming all meat was 'harmed' because it didn't die a natural death. Simply not true.
Yes, it can be wrong to violently kill animals for entertainment, but not wrong to humanely kill them for sustenance.
Sure we fornicate in public. You've never been to Key West, obviously.
Do we kill our newborn children, no, we advanced enough to 'kill' them before they're born so they are never children, but before abortion, yes, humans absolutely killed their newborn children. In ancient Greece, a child wasn't considered a human until it was a year old, and killing it for any reason in that time was perfectly acceptable. In many cultures, if a child is deformed, it's killed, even today. You're just plain wrong.
A LARGE percentage of animals eat meat, not a small one.
Again, you make a mistaken ASSUMPTION that I (and everyone else) eat factory meat, because otherwise your argument falls flat.
What say you about the Masai, who have nothing to eat besides their cattle and live a symbiotic life with them?
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsabalcom is a vegan but also a reseacher in animal behavior. the nutritionfacts.org site uses only peer reviewed articles on deit, health and nutrition.
btw, wanting to be eaten after you expire is quite different than murdering you in order to consume your corpse, which is what is done in the case of the 10 billion farmed animals who are killed every year in the USA alone.
Uh...yeah...OK. Let's remove all protein from your brain and see how that goes.
Another vegan propaganda site.
How about find a site that's not vegan propaganda, but an actual mainstream scientific site that publishes scientific studies that are peer reviewed, tested, and repeated...or can you not find any that support your position?
I DO want to be eaten when I die.
Check and mate.
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsa"Many people insist that eating animals is “natural” — and therefore morally neutral — because other animals eat animals. But it’s important to realize that, with a few exceptions, when humans kill other animals for food, we’re not doing what animals do in nature. Humans have no biological need to consume meat or any animal products. When animals kill other animals for food, they do as they must, in order to survive; they have no choice in the matter. Many humans, on the other hand, do have a choice, and when people with access to plant-based foods choose to continue eating animals anyway — simply because they like the taste — they are harming animals not from necessity, but for pleasure. Yet harming animals for pleasure goes against core values we hold in common — which is why, for example, we oppose practices like dog fighting on principle. It can’t be wrong to harm animals for pleasure in one instance, but not the other.
Furthermore, it makes no sense to selectively model our behavior around other animals. Do we fornicate or copulate in public like other animals do? No. Do we kill our newborn children based on the fact that certain animals have done so under certain circumstances? Of course not. Yet when it is convenient for our argument, we claim that eating animals is normal and natural because a very small percentage of animals do so. Regardless of what other animals do, if you are not vegan, you are paying someone to needlessly harm animals in a way that would traumatize you to even witness."
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsa"You know how much you love, respect and want to protect every dog and cat in the world? You know how much your heart breaks when you see a picture of a dog in a shelter who is going to be killed? You know how you feel when you see photos of piles of dead dogs and cats who are going to be used for fur? You know how enraged you get when you see a photo of a dog or cat who has been beaten to death? That’s how vegans feel about all animals. Every animal who is exploited and murdered for food, clothing, entertainment and “research.” We don’t distinguish between dogs and cats and other animals. If you allowed yourself to feel the deep suffering that billions of animals endure for your pleasure, you’d be vegan, too. And you might understand why vegans work so hard to end the animal holocaust." —Gary Smith
No thanks. Not interested in silly Veganist propaganda.
Besides, I can see from the title that it makes the mistaken assumption that people's pets shouldn't be eaten. Maybe I wouldn't eat my dog, but if someone else wants it's carcass, they're welcome to it. Eating it is FAR better than letting it rot, or burning it.
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsayou can check out one source of research here: jonathanbalcombe.com/
as far as being educated on veganism, you are sadly mistaken. you are simply repeating the myths you have been taught since childhood. if you would not wish to experience somethign yourself, it can never be considered humane. freefromharm.org/animal-products-and-ethics/factory-farming-alternative-farming/
btw, if you were educated, you would know that the brain runs on carbs and not on fats & protein. for peer reviewed research on diet and health, i would recommend http://nutritionfacts.org/
Really, what actual peer reviewed studies of brain activity during death are you quoting whey you say that? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just pointing out that you're totally buying into the myths and lies of the vegan movement rather than any actual evidence.
I hate to tell you, but I'm probably more educated about veganism than you, as I've been exposed to it for about 40 years through my aunts family, and can see it from the outside, so being part of the 'movement' doesn't cloud my perception like it does to vegans. Also, my brain doesn't suffer from a lack of proteins and fats.
Also, to comment on your other post, not all animals are factory farmed, or executed by the methods you decry. It's incredibly annoying to try to discuss this issue with people who want to portray the entire meat industry as the worst examples possible, then tell people how to act based on that misrepresentation. There's a problem with factory farming, not all animal farming is factory farming, or factory harvesting. Please make a note of it.
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsacarnivores, unlike humans (who eat flesh, dairy and eggs for reasons of pleasure) require flesh to live. if you check out the article i posted along wit h this one, they will greatly increase your awareness about these issues:
freefromharm.org/common-justifications-for-eating-animals/animals-eat-animals/
Why is it that Vegans never attack carnivores the way they attack omnivores? Carnivores eat only other animals, usually eating them ALIVE, shouldn't they be your target?
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsafreefromharm.org/animal-products-and-psychology/i-love-my-pets-but-still-eat-meat-whats-wrong-with-that/
So you HATE President Carter then, eh? If all animals are equally important, sentient, intelligent, and emotional, it must simply kill you that he's trying to eradicate an entire species, right?
Social Justice Warriors are invariably self centered ignorant asshats. Don't be one.
Please take a biology class, then try again.
Vegans get ridiculed because they make ridiculous statements like "the only difference between the dogs you love and the cows, chickens and pigs you eat is your perception".
...or are YOU only as intelligent as a gnat? Because if all animals are the same, that's what you're saying. ;-)
The thing about "truth" is, it has to be true. Your statement is simply insane. Animals are different from other different animals.
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsacarnivores, unlike humans (who eat flesh, dairy and eggs for reasons of pleasure) require flesh to live. if you check out the article i posted along wit h this one, they will greatly increase your awareness about these issues:
[url redacted]
Why is it that Vegans never attack carnivores the way they attack omnivores? Carnivores eat only other animals, usually eating them ALIVE, shouldn't they be your target?
newtboy
(Member Profile)
ahimsaof course in some ways they are different but when it comes to suffering and death, a cow is a pig is a chicken is a dog.
if you wish to become educated on this subject rather than buying into the myths and lies of our culture and society, i suggest you read this short essay:
http://freefromharm.org/animal-products-and-ethics/killing-animals-imaginary-solutions/
So you HATE President Carter then, eh? If all animals are equally important, sentient, intelligent, and emotional, it must simply kill you that he's trying to eradicate an entire species, right?
Please take a biology class, then try again.
Vegans get ridiculed because they make ridiculous statements like "the only difference between the dogs you love and the cows, chickens and pigs you eat is your perception".
The thing about "truth" is, it has to be true. Your statement is simply insane. Animals are different from other different animals.