So, basically you're complaining that the much maligned individual mandate is too toothless for your liking? Wasn't this tyranny worth rising up in arms against like, 5 minutes ago?

I think I'm pretty much okay if the plan has made you willingly pay more in taxes rather than purchase a service from a private company.

If there's a big right wing media-led campaign to get people to do this and try to raise premiums for sick people, you can bet the reaction will be to put teeth in the mandate, not bring back denials for preexisting conditions. Or add a public option. Or just ditch private insurance entirely and go for single payer.

Way to go, anti-government idiot.

I love it. I wasn't complaining. I think it's awesome. I love it when people are incentivized to 'get one over' on the system. Because if we've learned anything about the social condition it's that removing money from its parts and focusing it instead to a monolithic center is never, ever, ever, ever, ever a set up for failure.

I don't care so much about the insurance companies. It's the doctors and hospitals that will be the butt of this joke when the punchline is delivered in 2014.

Okay, I honestly LOL'd at your comment. You really don't understand the bill that was just passed, do you?

"Removing money from its parts and focusing it instead into a monolithic center" isn't even remotely what this bill does. For example, what's the monolithic center? The only government program that gets bigger is Medicaid, but not by much, and people at that income level will get generous subsidies to buy private insurance, should they choose to.

There is no employer mandate, and in 2018 they're going to start phasing out the tax exemption for employer health benefits, which means the bill is going to start pushing everyone towards individual plans, decentralizing our health care system even more.

At the heart of the plan is the health insurance exchange, where companies can sell individual health insurance plans across state lines, and the chief expected cost control is market competition between plans in the exchange!

The only way for the plan to "remove money from its parts and focus it instead into a monolithic center" is if you opt out of buying a private plan, and pay the tax instead!

Oh, the irony...

Seriously, way to go, anti-government idiots!

Who gets the money from the fines?

Since you clearly didn't read all the way to the bottom, I said:

The only way for the plan to "remove money from its parts and focus it instead into a monolithic center" is if you opt out of buying a private plan, and pay the tax instead!

Oh, the irony...

See, it's ironic because your own desire to fuck with the system leads you to engage in activity that most centralizes resources. Why are you fighting the system? Because you think its purpose is to centralize the resources.

I mean, irony like that just doesn't happen every day. You have to work to get hoisted on your own petard like that.

For the third time: Ha ha, way to go anti-government idiots!

I did read it. I guess I was looking for some intellectual honesty instead of partisan bullying.

If you don't buy a compulsory policy, then you have to pay a fine. That fine goes to the government. As I understand it, it's 2.5% of your income.

Maybe you should read more of your "progressive" sites: http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/19/fact-sheet-the-truth-about-the-health-care-bill/

They even oppose the bill instead of being apologetic like you. Maybe they see how this will be another black eye against the progressive movement. Sometimes, nr, I think you're a neocon troll sent to disrupt the order of the progressive left.

If you cannot see how compulsory health care is scary, when the government can outlaw certain foods, outlaw certain drugs, certain drinks, certain exercises have to be mandatory, etc, etc.

[edit] cleaned up because I tend to be redundant when I'm drunk and writing political comments. Also, I make less sense. But the hops taste so damn good.

Pornhub: It makes your dick bigger

First things first: Beer tasty. Bipartisan agreement at last!

Second thing is, Firedoglake is pretty much off its rocker at the moment. They're following the underpants gnome philosophy of political activism:

1. Demand single-payer health care
   
2. Oppose all Democratic reform plans for being too moderate
   
3. ???
   
4. Strongly progressive health care passes
   

I can see why you find this appealing, since you yourself follow the underpants gnome philosophy of political activism.

I wanted more from the bill too, and I'm annoyed Democrats didn't pass something more left wing. However, I never expected to win all the battles all the way all at once.

This is about as maximally market based as it can be without utterly tossing out the goal of increasing coverage and making things better for the poor. From here, the only way we're going to go is more and more left, so be careful what you wish for when it comes to problems with this bill.

The mandate is only going to get firmer if too many people cheat the system. If premiums keep going up, we're going to be talking about more stringent price controls, not a return to denying people with preexisting conditions. Your choice from here on out is privately managed socialism, or government managed socialism -- and if privately managed keeps being a total boondoggle, we're going to wind up with Medicare for all (yay!).

Oh, and the FDL myth thing is a mixed bag of true statements that merely mean the bill isn't perfect (e.g. "the bill isn't universal", it only brings us up from 82% coverage to 92%, and the bulk of the remainder are undocumented immigrants), and things where they are at best being misleading.

For example, under #4 they say: "it will impose a hardship on most middle-class Americans." They say this because their choices will go from paying $13,100 for health care or $0 for nothing to potentially facing a penalty of $2,085 if there is a qualifying plan available on the market for less than $5,243/yr and they still don't buy insurance. However, they fail to mention that if there isn't a qualifying plan available that cheap they don't have to pay a penalty at all. For there to be a plan that cheap, prices would have to drop 60% from where they are now -- and no one thinks they will -- which means this bill puts no "burden" on them at all.

In fact, if this family chooses to buy insurance of their own accord, they'll find their choices are vastly improved. Thanks to subsidies, the most they'll have to pay in premiums is $6305/yr (9.5% of income), compared to $13,100 they'd be paying without reform, and they will still pay no penalty if they decide not to buy insurance.

What does the bill say about enrollment periods, like insurance companies only allowing coverage to start at the beginning of the following month or something similar? That's a fairly common practice even for government plans, and it would put a decent dent in the "wait until I need a hospital before I buy" attitudes.

The waiting approach only works for problems you can see coming. It can be difficult to sign up for insurance in the ambulance on your way to the ER.

srsly though. it doesn't ACTUALLY make your dick bigger, right?

>> ^rottenseed:

Pornhub: It makes your dick bigger


wide6.com ftw

You have to believe it does.>> ^griefer_queafer:

srsly though. it doesn't ACTUALLY make your dick bigger, right?

BOOYAH. Cheat the system. 100% of all government programs are exploitable. I'll be using this one too once I quit the job and let the Gov pay me back all those tax dollars it took from me...

>> ^blankfist:

Maybe you should read more of your "progressive" sites: http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/19/fact-s
heet-the-truth-about-the-health-care-bill/

They're actually known as the "Firebaggers" btw. Most of the people who you call "progressives" dislike Jane Hamsher as much as they dislike Grover Norquist.

"Let's recap. Pay a fine that's less than insurance premiums? Check. Buy insurance once you become sick because they can't turn you away? Check!"

Actually, considering how much they've been gouging you for years, this is a bit of karmic retribution.

Statism FTW!

Pornhub: It makes your dick bigger

For me, that's like saying it'll make the ocean wetter.