I gave this the parody tag, because I figure self-parody counts.

"This is the weightiest problem that the president has".

Yep...dumb motherfucker.

In 2005, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, Powell's chief of staff, publicly stated he could "testify to" Franks' 2004 comment, and added "Seldom in my life have I met a dumber man.

We. Were. Lied. To.

y'think?

If they lied to us on this scale going into the war.. who's to say they weren't lying about other things on a similar scale >?

you mean things like 9/11?

That would fall into that category, yup.

Wow - flat learning curve there...

Why do all the most deceitful and lying politicians have this strange, perpetual, self-satisfying smug smile on all the time? It's like a trademark. Cheney being a notable example.

Could it be they are actually aware of how much bullshit they are spewing? Nah... let's not give them that much credit.

how does this have seven channels? what happened to the five-limit, or was that abolished recently?

Fuck Douglas Feith.

Upvote due to the fact this guy really is stupid.

So Feith blames the CIA and the CIA blames Curve Ball ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=6rwYj0R4_uA & http://youtube.com/watch?v=ILALivdQ0jQ ) which lead to Tenet's "slam dunk" faux pas. Oh, and round we go.

Did you know that Douglas Feith has his own web site? Or maybe it's this one.

>> ^MarineGunrock:
We. Were. Lied. To.

And if that wasn't enough, apparently they are now planting rogue punctuation marks to disrupt our communications.

>> ^HaricotVert:
Why do all the most deceitful and lying politicians have this strange, perpetual, self-satisfying smug smile on all the time?

That's not a smile of any sort. Mr. Feith's mouth is simply stuck in the cock-sucking shape after years of repetition.

He may have been wrong, he may have had some influence on starting the most pointless war in my lifetime, but these reporters have the gift of hindsight when they're grilling him. Just like anything else, nothing is black and white, and if you look hard enough, you can see any issue from both sides.

For the record, I can't stand Bush, and I wish we'd never started this crusade. However, I think it's a cop-out to trot out individual fall guys.

>> ^xxovercastxx:
>>
That's not a smile of any sort. Mr. Feith's mouth is simply stuck in the cock-sucking shape after years of repetition.


Mystery solved.

Ya know, when this shit all started in 2003, with the "evidence" provided at the time, I think that it's safe to say that the majority of the nation wanted to go to war with Iraq. Hell, they had WMDs? And intelligence said that they wanted to use them on us? Get the fucking bastards, right? Yeah!

Lo and behold, if they had them, they're now gone. That's if they ever had them. At all.
Once we had confirmed that there were indeed no WMDs, we had no right to be there. A sovereign nation had not attacked us, and presented no threat to us if they really had no WMDs. Seriously - what are they gonna do, invade the U.S. with a bunch of guys with AK-47s? They would get massacred. But that's all a moot point, because they had absolutely no means of even getting to us. Therefore the only threat they posed were WMDs - of which it turns out they had none.

Yeah, the got a little repetitive, but bear with me.
When I joined the Marine Corps in 2003, I had only spent about 6 months in the Fleet before I was cast into the giant sandbox to help the war effort that was supposed to be outing a regime and searching for WMDs. By that time (July 2004) we had already caught Saddam cowering in his little hole like the piece of shit that he is was.
By that time there were still no WMDs to be found.
By that time Bush had delivered his "Mission accomplished" speech on the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln.
That was May 1st, 2003. Before I had even went to boot camp.
By that time, we realized that we had accomplished our main goal: Outing the current leader of Iraq.
There were no WMDs to be found, and we knew that. To my knowledge, there are NO teams currently looking for them, or were when I was there.
That means we no longer had any business left.
But wait - there's people shooting at us.
So we'll stay and kill them, right? Sure, why not take care of it while we can!
But do you think those unorganized ragtag insurgents are going to follow us if we left Iraq?
No.
Because we'd be giving them what they want.
Us to leave.
And never come back.
But no, we'll continue a war that doesn't even have a defined goal.
We'll continue it even WELL after we've run out of money to fund it, so long as China keeps loaning us money, which I'm sure they will do for as long as wee keep buying their shit that poisons our kids and breaks within a month.

But here's the part that REALLY baffles me:
1) This nation was created by the people, to be run FOR the people.
2) The majority of the nation thinks that we need to pull out of Iraq.
3) There is a candidate that is actually dumb enough to base his campaign on something that the majority has been proven to not want. Who fucking does that? Sides with the minority when trying to get votes? Seriously?
4) We're not out of Iraq when the PEOPLE want us out, and that our CONGRESS that was established BY the PEOPLE to SERVE the PEOPLE hasn't done SHIT.


Do I regret joining? Hell no. I miss it every day and even think of going back in almost as often. Would I go back if I was still in? Yes, because those were my orders, and I know that there are a lot of Iraqi civillians that want us there, because we bring them new schools and hospitals, among lots of other things. Do I think that we should get the fuck out of there, thereby saving billions of dollars and thousands of lives?

How does saying "no" not contradict sanity?

1) Fuck you.
2) Suck my dick.
3) Lick my tate.
4) I hope you get my pubes stuck in your teeth.
5) I hope you get the starring role in 2 morons 1 cup.
6) You can eat the biscuit.
7) Why don't you go and fight you piece of shit?
You're the one that thinks it's a great idea for us to be there.
9) I hope Rosie O'Donnell sits on your face.
10) Learn how to answer a fucking question.
11) Go play in the BME Pain Olympics.
12) I'll be rooting for you to get gold.
13) I wish you would follow in the footsteps of this guy.
14) I hope you get fucked in the ass by Doomguy with a chainsaw.
15) I hate you just for the way you look.
16) I hate you even more for making me want to Photoshop your face onto a hilarious picture, thereby Googling images under "gay fetish"
17) I hate you for making me lose my appetite immediately after.

He's not stupid; he's got "alternative" intelligence.

feel better, mg? cigarette, perhaps?
quite a purge, there. and yeah. pisses me off, too, still.

but, hey. that's probably your 2nd best comment.
after this.

My neighbor's friend's brother broke 2 of my windows with rocks...

...so I shot my neighbor because he was part of the "network".

How come the maority of the American population believed the war in Iraq was justified at the time when the vast majority of developed countries could see right through the bullshit the Bush administration was putting forth by the truckloads? Even my Prime Minister could see it.

Maybe the detached observer has the clearest view and its harder to see straight when your in the midst of it, but really, saying you were lied to when the lied is that obvious doesnt quite cut it I think.

I know the majority of any population are retards, and in America especially, come come on, this is one big shit in the bed.

I propose the creation of the Election08HistoryLiesParodyPoliticsTerribleWtfClusterF@#k channel just for this video.

MGR - i have said this a dozen times on this sift and it still doesn't appear to be getting through, i can only deduce that people here have no empathy or sense of duty. Although you mention it a few times you still come to a conclusion of "pull out".

We went over there and we made a mess, it's our job to clean it up. You can't remove any kind of law/government that exists there (in whatever shoddy state is exists) and then simply say "right, we're done, best of luck to you all."

Whether you like it or not, what we've ended up doing is removing a corrupt regime. That had to be done in order to get these "WMD's" which everyone was led to believe existed. Now please stick with me on this:

We removed the corrupt regime.

They didn't exist.

We still removed the corrupt regime.

Wait, our own people are dying? We better leave! Forget that we FORCED the iraqis to rely on us to police their country. -- IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

If you saw a parent abusing a child, you'd go over and you'd stop it happening. You'd take the kid away from the parent, lock the parent up. You wouldn't then push the kid out into the street and say "right, go deal with life".

Now pretend that you actually only saw the abuse going on because you heard the guy was growing marijuana. Then you've got the perfect analogy to the iraq war. The morals involved are EXACTLY the same.

I can see several counter-claims coming over the horizon.
1) But we were lied to! Our people are dying because of lies!
-- Yes, they are.. let that be a fucking lesson to you. For your apathy, a government/governer got into power that felt it could lie to you and get away with it. Don't whinge retro-actively about it, don't tell me you didn't want people to die, you already had your chance to stop that by letting the government know all along that they couldn't take you for a ride. You let an idiot(s) get in power and then complain when he does something stupid.
(I AM REFERRING TO ENGLAND AND AMERICA IN THAT RHETORIC, WE ARE BOTH RESPONSIBLE)

2) We've done lots for iraq! We've built schools and introduced freedom! Don't say we've left them in a mess!
-- Correct, but that's not what i'm saying.
IF WE LEFT NOW, the freedom that we fought and died for would dissipate.
IF WE LEFT NOW, the nutters would take over the asylum again. The iraqis do not have control of the situation for themselves YET.
IF WE LEFT NOW, the terrorists that are left would start all over again. Training the next wave of indoctrinated kids (see the bible belt:P) to grow up and kill your grand-children.
IF WE LEFT NOW, we'd have another saddam houssein before 20 years pass.
I'm saying we can't leave *NOW*. We've done great things for them, but that's not enough *YET.*

3) There were no WMDs! We have no right to be there!
-- Did you read this post? We took out the regime to see if there were WMDs, they weren't gonna let us have a look before we invaded, they weren't gonna let us look afterwards. Our right to be there right now is so that a) thousands of iraqi's don't die as a result of our actions, b) we don't have to do this again in 20 years, c) we don't have to be on a state of terror alert for the rest of our lives.

4) Oh so it's ok for our guys to die but not for theirs?
-- The iraqi VICTIMS were just living their lives. It was a life fraught with danger, but we've made it more dangerous. So the real question is;
"Is it ok for us to put people in danger and then abandon them?"

Now this post is as much anti-british as it is anti-american. Everything said here can apply to both countries. While none of it is anti-anything-but-leaving-iraq, people will see it as such. Posting anything that "appears" to be anti-american on the sift nowadays is like asking to be downvoted.

All i ask is that you read and think before you vote me down for saying and believing what is the morally correct thing to believe.

Colin Powell said it: "You break it, you buy it". I think we're obligated now. And it's going to hurt for a long, long time. A lot of men and women are going to die because of it.

If I were a young Iraqi with a testosterone imbalance living in a repressive culture invaded by a foreign army, I'd probably be up on the rooftops with a Dragunov. You take someone's country over and they'll never ever forget it.

The arrogance and ignorance of the Neocons for putting our professional, completely voluntary forces in harms way to satisfy their avarice make me realize that I need Bob Dylan to explain how I feel...

"...You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
While the death count gets higher
Then you hide in your mansion
While the young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud...

...And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead."

100% correct, schmawy.

Yeah, well it's easy to talk when you don't actually have to put your boots on and go.

>> ^dannym3141:
100% correct, schmawy.

Oh, I absolutely believe that we broke it, we bought it.

When I say we need to get out, I mean that we need to set a time line to get out. You know, actually set a REAL FUCKING GOAL.

^Yeah, we broke it but it's not just our responsibility to fix it. I wish that the Iraqis would step up to the plate more. Although, we want them to run the country the way we think it should be run. We only allow them so much self determination.

Sometimes I think that there's only one guy who could run a country that is for all intents and purposes made of three different countries, and we hung the SOB.

So sad about it. I want all of our sons and daughters to come home.

@schmawy: How dare you quote any Bob Dylan song other than "Mr. Tambourine Man"

...that's a bad kitty

hm... i was expecting the President.

We know from Paul O'Neil's book that the first NSC meeting of the first Bush Administration concerned removing Hussein from power. Jan, 2001. Why? What was the impetus? We know that on 9/11 Rumsfeld asked his subordinates to find any connection between Iraq and the attacks. Why? Simply saying, "Oil" does not answer the question. If we can eventually buy the oil, what does it matter? Once sanctions were removed and Iraq could sell oil again, wouldn't it want to sell it to us? Hmmm, there's this thorny issue of the ten-year sanctions regime and all the resulting Iraqi misery (not for Saddam, of course). So, with sanctions lifted, Saddam probably wouldn't want to have anything to do with the two countries which led the way in his humiliation--the U.S. and the U.K. So who would be next in line to buy all that oil, and, no doubt, help him resurrect his oil industry? Who is flush with cash these days, thanks to our bottomless gullet for cheap shit and our inability to balance our books? The Chinese. Since the Chinese are our sole superpower competitor-to-be, I would submit that everything we do in the Middle East and South Asia and Southeast Asia and Asia proper is done with one eye on China. If we can't get the oil, we want to make damned sure the Chinese don't get it. China China China China. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

"The intelligence is the responsibility of the intelligence community"

How do you debate on how secure our government is when dumb asses like this make it into the Pentagon?

There's a difference between stupid and dishonest. He actually comes across as very intelligent, just dishonest, which in my opinion is much worse.
In the run-up to the war I was against it, but felt that if it was started that the US should stay as long as needed once starting it. That was my position still until hearing Hitchen's arguments in the last year. Bush, Cheney and company lied to get into war and inentionally mislead the country into the war. That's horrible, and needs to be condemned. The "you bought it" argument though extends further than staying in long wnough to clean things up now. All the extreme left wingers are well aware of America's role in Saddam's rise to power and use of chemical weapons against Iran. They somehow completely forget that those actions maybe count as "breaking" the country and placing a responsiblity to fix that problem.

For some other talking points:
Feith actually is pretty good to point out that Iraq wasn't really linked to Al-Qaeda, but other terrorist organizations. Some of the most wanted men in the world where operating out of Iraqi government offices. After 9/11 that meant a little more to national security than before hand.
The conditions in Iraq are terrible now. But the better question is were people better off under Saddam's rule? Being forced to not only watch, but applaud, at the execution of loved ones is hard on a population.
Iraq was a sovereign nation and the US had no right to interfere. Iraq had not only invaded, but absorbed another sovereign nation as part of itself. Iraq had used WMD against Iran and it's own people. Iraq provided aid and support to terrorist organizations. Iraq had committed genocide against the Kurdish people. Saddam's claims to legitimate sovereign government evaporated as he committed all these acts.

Hate Bush and doubly so for Cheney, but don't try and whitewash the war as wrong because of their misactions going in. For the wrong they committed before and during the war, there is a lot of evidence to show that removing Saddam was a good thing, even with the unavoidable quagmire.

I'm just sickened by his stubborn viewpoint. Mistakes happen, but don't stand behind your own flawed outlooks of the war in Iraq.

*Most stupid

*waronterror

Adding video to channels (Waronterror) - requested by Zonbie.