Bernie Sanders shows support for aims of Jeremy Corbyn

Ok, not seen a UK 2017 general election video yet, so maybe it's my job to do it. Here Bernie Sanders is asked what he thinks about Jeremy Corbyn and the UK general election. He of course shows support.
dannym3141says...

So this is relevant because of a recent surge in support for "radical left" (i.e. democratic socialist, centre-left) Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn who has had a huge surge in popularity in recent weeks in a general election campaign he was expected to catastrophically lose by all mainstream sources.

Since winning two Labour party leadership elections in 2015, voted in by historic margins by ordinary members having their say for the first time, he has faced hostile criticism from all mainstream media sources and most politicians including his own party.

The grass roots, which helped drive his earlier victories, appears to be doing the same thing for him in this general election campaign. The grass roots involvement has included youth musicians, artists and activists coming together from multiple campaigns (Save The NHS, WASPI, most unions, including teachers, fire, police and transport, and far too many other interest groups to mention, including multiple disability campaigners). As well as individuals, parents, elderly, and Momentum - a group formed in the afterglow of his leadership win.

On the other hand, Theresa May's and the Tory party's campaign has gone from disaster to disaster. After claiming to be the party of economic security, they released an entirely uncosted manifesto (Labour's was fully costed, other party's included some costings). After trying to make it a match of personalities, she has gone from robotic gaffe to robotic gaffe, dodging questions whilst Corbyn's easy charm and honesty has gone quite a way to show those weaknesses up. She has claimed to be stable and strong, and the best hand to negotiate Brexit, but performed u-turn after u-turn and is now avoiding all but mandatory press contact because her and her brand have become toxic, thanks to things like the "Dementia Tax" and a promise to vote again on allowing barbaric fox hunting. She has been caught out, and regardless of the results of the general election, Theresa May is finished as Conservative leader. Potentially, the back of austerity has been broken and exposed. A movement has been started and even if the Tory's win, watch out for a mass people power'd intervention over their heinous plans.

God i could go on, this has been amazing to watch. Obviously i'm biased towards Labour, and whilst a centre-right opponent might describe things differently, the facts are the same.

Significant things are happening in the UK right now, not wholly dissimilar from the rise of Sanders, only this time it's for the actual prime minister position - Corbyn managed to outmaneuver the corruption of his party. If the election was 2 weeks longer i would predict a huge Labour landslide. After being so ridiculed by a hostile media for so long, election bias rules have forced the press into giving Corbyn a fair hearing and the more people see, the more they appear to like. The question is, have people already cast their vote by post? Will people turn up and vote? A big turnout is expected to favour Labour. A strong youth turnout will be hugely beneficial to Labour.

radxsays...

As much as I'd love to see Corbyn's Labour win the election, it depresses me to think how the nightmare that is Brexit would then have to be "managed" by them. In the end, the inevitable disaster might very well be laid at Labour's feet by the press, thereby discrediting Corbyn's policies for years to come.

Or does anyone see any way Brexit could be done that does not end in disaster? From where I'm standing, it's a five-year process in the best of times, yet neither are these the best of times, nor have the Tories done anything of substance in the time since the referendum. In fact, they don't even seem to be aware of what enormous undertaking these kinds of negotations are. Judging by the "leaks" from Juncker's meeting with May, she seemed completely unprepared, even delusional and misinformed about the process.

dannym3141says...

There are some that suggest May or the tories in general are trying to lose the election so that Labour WILL take the backlash. Ultimately no way to know how that will go, but right now there is severe backlash towards the tories and the narrative is swiftly changing towards Labour. I see an election win as the start of a very, very long conversation. Activists will have to continue the fight, press standards will have to be changed either through public pressure or through legislature. And in Britain that might happen because the press here are the most distrusted in europe (52% disapproval, or 52% considered biased/corrupt, or something).

I said in the past that the UK was ready to change. Essentially, the narrative was there to be taken right back, but I didn't know if Corbyn's team had the skill to do it. I have to say that I am blown away by Labour's campaign, it has been almost flawless. I say that because i think the narrative is there to be taken on Brexit. The tories called the referendum to hold onto power. They arrogantly called the general election to consolidate power, with Brexit talks imminent, only to whine about being too busy to do interviews because they're thinking about Brexit! They have then made a catastrophic hash of their campaign, u-turned 5 or 6 times, contradicted themselves, and generally shown themselves to be weak, without answers, and bullies. In 10 years time, who knows what we will think? But in the short term at least, this can be framed as a "they fucked it up, but we'll take over in a crisis and try to fix it."

At the end of the day, a Corbyn government has always been so out of the question that i don't know what to expect if that were to happen. Is another referendum on leaving out of the question?

At the very least, for now, i would say Brits prefer the idea of Labour sorting out Brexit than the Tories, and the average attitude towards Brexit in the country is rather one of resigned acceptance - we know it's bad, but we did it, so now we better get on with it. But we're very suspicious, and don't want to get shafted by irresponsible or reckless politicians. True for the left and right, but obviously for different reasons.

radxsaid:

As much as I'd love to see Corbyn's Labour win the election, it depresses me to think how the nightmare that is Brexit would then have to be "managed" by them. In the end, the inevitable disaster might very well be laid at Labour's feet by the press, thereby discrediting Corbyn's policies for years to come.

Or does anyone see any way Brexit could be done that does not end in disaster? From where I'm standing, it's a five-year process in the best of times, yet neither are these the best of times, nor have the Tories done anything of substance in the time since the referendum. In fact, they don't even seem to be aware of what enormous undertaking these kinds of negotations are. Judging by the "leaks" from Juncker's meeting with May, she seemed completely unprepared, even delusional and misinformed about the process.

dannym3141says...

Bob i hate to break it to you, but America has started to become a little bit of a joke in the rest of the world... Your rude, pig headed and frankly severely lacking in intelligence and personal skills president is taking you backwards. But that's no indictment on Americans, because many states have thankfully backed the climate accord, and if non-Trump aligned Americans are to blame for anything, it is only not being able to force the correct candidate through to beat Trump. If we want the drift of American political opinion in Europe these days, we have to watch late night talk shows rather than listening to the president.

Three things happened RE: Paris accord.
One - the American president has used a European stage to demand spurious money from Europe and turned them publicly into opponents rather than allies. Even the worst Brexiteers had the good grace to make that claim on smaller stages where they could be laughed at - it's banter, not a serious political point, except to Trump! Apparently friendship is now an issue of economics, so if Russia decided to start a war, America's involvement might depend on how much it costs to be involved (or who Trump's personal mates are, or what Russia has on him) despite being a key cause of war.
Two - other countries including China all came together to show international brotherhood *against Trump*. This is now Trump's position in the eyes of worldwide public opinion; Trump stands opposed to the entire rest of the world save two countries Syria and Nicaragua! America has *stepped away* from the rest of the world. So now the rest of the world is by definition leading America, showing her the way.
Three - Trump has shown us that he is not interested in listening to the best logical reasoning, the best mathematical models, from the combined talent of the best minds that this planet has produced. So he's completely unreliable.

I think even Trump's fiercest proponents must now start to admit, in private, that they didn't get what they thought they were getting. He is a psychological child with the arrogance of a rich grown man.

bobknight33said:

What a joke. Bernie approval is a death nail to any candidate. Please keep Bernie over there. He is a Joke in America.

bobknight33says...

Rude, pig headed and lacking personal skills only in a political sense. Business man sense - shrewd- All those hard line positions are only starting negotiating positions. Time will tell If he can pull it off.

Paris accord- A joke and a money pit for America-let alone a false narrative. Trump did the right thing pulling out of it.

Asking European countries to step up and pay their NATO fees was a right think to do. American are sick of cheep ass lazy NATO partners who wont pay their bills.

dannym3141said:

Bob i hate to break it to you, but America has started to become a little bit of a joke in the rest of the world... Your rude, pig headed and frankly severely lacking in intelligence and personal skills president is taking you backwards. But that's no indictment on Americans, because many states have thankfully backed the climate accord, and if non-Trump aligned Americans are to blame for anything, it is only not being able to force the correct candidate through to beat Trump. If we want the drift of American political opinion in Europe these days, we have to watch late night talk shows rather than listening to the president.

Three things happened RE: Paris accord.
One - the American president has used a European stage to demand spurious money from Europe and turned them publicly into opponents rather than allies. Even the worst Brexiteers had the good grace to make that claim on smaller stages where they could be laughed at - it's banter, not a serious political point, except to Trump! Apparently friendship is now an issue of economics, so if Russia decided to start a war, America's involvement might depend on how much it costs to be involved (or who Trump's personal mates are, or what Russia has on him) despite being a key cause of war.
Two - other countries including China all came together to show international brotherhood *against Trump*. This is now Trump's position in the eyes of worldwide public opinion; Trump stands opposed to the entire rest of the world save two countries Syria and Nicaragua! America has *stepped away* from the rest of the world. So now the rest of the world is by definition leading America, showing her the way.
Three - Trump has shown us that he is not interested in listening to the best logical reasoning, the best mathematical models, from the combined talent of the best minds that this planet has produced. So he's completely unreliable.

I think even Trump's fiercest proponents must now start to admit, in private, that they didn't get what they thought they were getting. He is a psychological child with the arrogance of a rich grown man.

newtboysays...

Nope, those traits are antithetical to business too, probably why no one does business with him twice.

Paris accord, purely voluntary based on goals we set ourselves. Clearly he didn't understand it at all. It only costs us money if we want it to, and it only asks us to do what we ask of ourselves, with no enforcement at all. Interesting to note that the word "coal" is not in it, contrary to what someone seems to have told Trump...that it forces us to abandon coal while other countries can continue to adopt it.

You know Trump wants to leave NATO, probably because Putin wants him to so it will not be able to stand against more aggressive Russian expansion. Is a Soviet Europe cheaper than paying a bit more to NATO, or should we dismantle it just because Greece can't pay and ignore the consequences?

Europe no longer sees us as the leaders of the free world. For all your b.s. about Obama, Trump has ruined our international reputation in under 6 months more than even Fox claimed Obama had in 8 years.

bobknight33said:

Rude, pig headed and lacking personal skills only in a political sense. Business man sense - shrewd- All those hard line positions are only starting negotiating positions. Time will tell If he can pull it off.

Paris accord- A joke and a money pit for America-let alone a false narrative. Trump did the right thing pulling out of it.

Asking European countries to step up and pay their NATO fees was a right think to do. American are sick of cheep ass lazy NATO partners who wont pay their bills.

Fairbssays...

hmmm; doesn't appear you were anywhere near right on this one; or are you suggesting Labour would have had an even greater win without Bernie?

bobknight33said:

What a joke. Bernie approval is a death nail to any candidate. Please keep Bernie over there. He is a Joke in America.

Jinxsays...

Pretty shocked by the result. When the exit polls suggested the Tories were going to fall short of a majority I switched off the TV, put it down to shy Conversatives and went to bed.

Must suck to be a Tory tbh. Most of them didn't want Brexit, they promised a referendum to court the euroskeptic vote... and then they were handed the mandate to kindly fuck themselves raw. Teresa, the last time that happened the Prime Minister stepped aside. Just a thought.

Also can't decide if disappointed or sort of pleasantly surprised that it seems none of the papers went with "Mayday".

dannym3141says...

The outcome was astonishing, even i couldn't believe it and i've been campaigning for it since 2015. All of this might be out of date 3 hours after i post it, because things are happening fast.

Theresa May has decided to go into government with the DUP propping her up. If you have kept up in the last 6 weeks or so with all the smears about Corbyn/IRA/Sinn Fein and terrorism, then you should understand that the DUP is basically the *other* side of the irish conflict. They are socially conservative and many of their beliefs fall in line with sharia laws; abortion illegal (including for sexual assault or incest cases), homophobia wrong and harmful to society, creationist beliefs, climate change deniers. That list might have less impact to some in the US but in British politics, it's out there on the fringe, quite extreme.

In a month from tomorrow there will be the July marches in Northern Ireland (and elsewhere in UK), and we already saw a march yesterday where unionists (~DUP supporters) trashed a nationalist pub (~Sinn Fein supporters).

So now consider. Nationalists have been dragged through the dirt by Conservative MPs and in the press; accused of being terrorists in order to smear Corbyn to stop him getting power. Whereas unionists are being courted by the Conservative government, and the press turning a blind eye to the DUP and their connections to domestic terrorism.

The northern irish peace process was a great achievement and still stands despite bad feeling on both sides. Part of the good friday agreement that ensures this peace says that the UK and Irish governments must act as neutral mediators in times of disagreement between factions in NI.

So now it becomes clear why Jeremy Corbyn refused to criticise either the unionists or the nationalists in particular - as a true leader with a fucking brain in his head, he understood that to take sides or score points would be to risk Britain's safety and the safety of communities in NI. The reason people were able to smear him as a terrorist sympathiser and danger to this country is *because* he refused to say or do anything that endangered this country.

And it becomes rather worrying that the tories have risked all of that hard work and all of our safety in order to keep power for just a little bit longer. There are already talks of a legal challenge from nationalists.

The good side to this is that it seems doomed to failure. May's credibility is broken, in the UK and in Europe. The alliance with the DUP almost certainly can't happen or last very long. The only alternative leaders to May would make the Conservatives less popular. Polls that saw this surge coming are predicting now that Labour would do even better if another election happened right now. The last time this happened was Ted Heath, whose minority government did not last long, and Labour took over after a few days, and won an election a few months later.

Austerity is well and truly broken as an ideology.

Oh, and all the talk of "the death of social democracy" in europe was actually the death of triangulating centrists who have become completely alienated from ordinary people. Socialism lives.

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