*promote

Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Tuesday, August 3rd, 2010 9:35am PDT - promote requested by enoch.

I wish... it's a pretty cool idea.
But the only way this could ever ever ever be used was if:

a) it was almost as cheap to manufacture and assemble, as it is to drill for oil, and refine it for use in roads.
b) it was truly resistant.
c) it was truly safe and did not represent a threat either by the sun being reflected or the cars losing traction.

Then... there would be no reason not to do it.

I see one of the issues with this is that it dose not follow the contour of the ground , u need something that to an exstent follows th elasy of the land , otherwize u are going to have do buld very flat foundatoins for it.

Not only does it have to follow contours of the land, but these panels would have to be able to deal with subsidence of the layers of earth under the foundation due to constant rolling point loads from trucks (since cars weigh nothing compared to a fully loaded truck). Asphalt/bitumen can elastically deform and still be a via road surface (i'm sure everyone's noticed 'channels' in the road). Couple that with the need to remove surface run-off water when it rains. True you could make the top road surface bumpy, but once those bumps are worn down you cant re-surface without replacing a whole panel.

On top of that, what happens if the micro-processors suddenly crap out, or some of the LEDs blow. In the first case, any road markings would suddenly disappear, or conversely the road would suddenly light up blinding drivers. In the second case, you'd either have to replace a full panel, or have "acceptable defects" where a certain number of LEDS can blow and the panel won't be compromised.

If they manage to get this to work, kudos to them, but i just can't see it happening with what they've been showing. Would seem to be easier to harness the thermal energy of roads rather than solar energy acting on the roads.

>> ^westy:

I see one of the issues with this is that it dose not follow the contour of the ground , u need something that to an exstent follows th elasy of the land , otherwize u are going to have do buld very flat foundatoins for it.


Actually i see that as a positive thing, sure it has to be flexible enough to bend a little, but seeing as where i live roads tend to get cracks, bumps and holes in them even after a year since re-pavement having something that resists that a little can only be good.

In order for this to be viable it essentially has to be manufactured on site, the panels and electronics could be printed onto large mats and then rolled out on the foundation while the actual road surface get put on top of this, though how this is done without setting tings on fire is a whole other deal.

What do these common road contaminants/applicants do to it?

Oil, salt, rubber, tar (because we're not going to be able to do all roads at once obviously), rocks, dirt, rust flakes, hydraulic, transmission, anti-freeze, various other car fluids, gasoline spills, diesel spills.

If an accident occurs how easily is the glass scratched, how much damage can it take before it needs a full replacement.

When replacing/repairing them, how long does it take? Is it cheaper to repair/replace them than it would be to maintain asphalt. How long do they last? Asphalt can go 10-15 years on parking lots if maintained and not overly abused via spills. Roads vary due to traffic and how smooth they are, plows eat them alive when they begin to hump/buckle or become misshapen in some way.

If one breaks or is damaged....does it affect the power generation? How much so? Will it take out city blocks of power like a power line going down?

What if a water main bursts under it or near it....will it support the weight if the foundation is washed away? Will it heave up in a big panel making the surface uneven? Will it breaks the other panels when it does this? Or cause some other damage due to the feed being broken?

How does it handle snow, ice, dust, fog, mist. Extreme temperatures. Can they be salted and plowed or do they self-clear snow somehow?

Most cracking and uneven-ness in road surfaces comes from the foundation below it, some people call them structural cracks..like the foundation of your house might get because of settling. It's also a telltale sign of problems below the surface of the road, masking that problem may not be a desirable quality even though it makes it a more convenient road surface in the meantime. It's like pothole versus sinkhole problems....I'd rather blow out a tire than have my car swallowed by the road.

If they keep this primarily to freeways they can avoid most issues with water mains, gas lines, sewer, etc. But they'll still have storm drains and the underground pipes associated with them, not as much of a big deal if they leak...but if they were to be plugged and a big rain came it can cause havoc with roadways above and below the surface...they don't plan for the water to start flowing up from beneath the roadway.

Finish grade asphalt and concrete work is pretty fast moving stuff when everything else is ready. It's all the sub grade work that takes months and even years.

Be great if it worked, but maybe they should start with sidewalks or bike paths...military base applications...they see some heavy equipment rolling through there, if it lasts through those....

They have crazy glass man. This ain't your bay windows. You are talking titanium level resistance to heat and cold, fracture and the like. Like he said, we know LOTS about glass. It is less about "can we", and more about "how we". 15 Years for a normal road is pretty unlikely in most of the country. Up north, it is about once a year because of the extreme ice and water damage. This on the other hand could power its own deicing system most likely (which he talks about in other videos, this is old news). It is great to see that he has a working model now. I don't know if I like the idea of wireless in there, hackers and what not. I would still keep tethered control to all that, which shouldn't be hard at all. I don't know that it is reasonable for it to act like a bridge and not a road. If the water washes away its support base...like a normal road, it collapsing is par for course, roads shouldn't be over-engineered to be bridges unless the cost is free. Also, if the road has power, you could have pressure sensors on it to feel for road imbalance issues which is much better than having to deal with potholes. I wonder about traction issues in rain. It could channel water much better than asphalt, but what if it is saturated? Then again, running my own hand against this glass surface with a lot of weight has a pretty high resistance.

I don't know if could work or not but I like the idea.

And here is a little something from wiki that I read about earlier on yahoo.



Gorilla™ Glass

Corning’s Gorilla™ Glass is a high-strength alkali-aluminosilicate thin sheet glass used as a protective cover glass for high-end display devices such as notebook PCs, televisions, and mobile phones.[2] Originally invented in 1962, it did not find commercial applications until 2008.[3]
In October 2009, Motion’s C5 and F5 line of Rugged Tablet PCs became the first to feature the Gorilla™ Glass.[4] Later in March 2010, Corning announced that Gorilla™ Glass' use in the Japanese cell phone market.[5] Corning's next leap was a few days later, March 15, 2010 was incorporating the Gorilla Glass into the LG x300 Ultra-thin Mobile PC; which unveiled at the 2010 CES Convention in Las Vegas, Nevada [6][7]
Corning attributes the choice of Gorilla™ Glass superiority not only for "unparalleled damage resistance and protection" but:
"Thinner form factor: Gorilla™ Glass retains its performance advantage over standard chemically strengthened substrates even when used in thin form factors. Currently, Gorilla™ Glass is available as-drawn in thicknesses ranging from .5 mm – 2.0 mm.
Pristine surface quality: Because it is formed using Corning’s proprietary fusion process, Gorilla™ Glass offers the same high-quality pristine surface available with all of our high-technology display substrates. This feature offers the ability to use the glass “as drawn,” eliminating lapping and polishing processes which can introduce surface damage.
Compliance with environmental standards: Gorilla™ Glass is compliant with the Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive (RoHS). It contains no heavy metals, making it an ideal component for devices engineered to meet environmental standards.
Compatibility with touch screen devices: Gorilla™ Glass can be used as a protective cover sheet for touch screen devices without impeding the functionality of the device. Reliable strength is important for these types of devices that function in response to pressure being applied to the glass.
Available with an easy-to-clean, wear-resistant coating: Customers can specify a version of Gorilla™ Glass with a special coating, making it easier to clean than other cover glasses. This is especially useful for devices that function by touch."[8]
In addition to its uses for mobile phones such as the Motorola Droidx[9], Corning expect increasing usage in television screens starting in 2011, with a projected market of $1 billion in 2011.[10][11]

I think they would be best suted to where u have a flat road alredy or some sort of foundation and this is esentualy a pavment on top , that u keep replacing every now and again.

If we spent 1% of the money we spend on oil on this project we'd be golden. Even if this was completely viable now Oil Companies would just use their lobbying power to stop it. We don't have a democracy, not in any real sense. Bolivia has a better Democracy than us.

Not sure where up north means to you. In Ohio they might redo a road (freeway/highway) every 5-7 years unless there is some sort of catastrophic problem like supports failing or someone striking the supports. Most of the roads go longer than that for full replacement. They obviously do pothole patching and small resurfacing on roads that need it at least once a year, although this has become more of a potluck thing with the economy. Lots and lots of side streets are going un-repaired while they redo entire neighborhoods using the stimulus money. Which...this is happening because they funnel all the money through 2-3 huge road crew companies like Kokosing and these guys aren't going to hire on 4x the crew to complete the jobs quick...they will stretch it out until the economy improves so they can keep who they have working.

I can't comment on how strong this glass may be, but a lot of those "unbreakable" screens break and those "unscratchable" screens scratch. So if all it takes is a focused amount of pressure, a screwdriver or big pointy rock being run over by a loaded semi might be all it takes.

Newer finish layer asphalt, when it's black or a really dark grey is pretty flexible. Especially if it's a hot day outside, it'll flex into nearly an L shape before breaking and folding in the size a man could carry. And in truth most roads freshly installed are made up of probably 3-4 layers of asphalt, 1 or 2 base layers (rockier than finish), and probably 2 finish layers..if not more. Depends on how many times they have to redo it to make the surfaces of all the lanes smooth.



>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

They have crazy glass man. This ain't your bay windows. You are talking titanium level resistance to heat and cold, fracture and the like. Like he said, we know LOTS about glass. It is less about "can we", and more about "how we". 15 Years for a normal road is pretty unlikely in most of the country. Up north, it is about once a year because of the extreme ice and water damage. This on the other hand could power its own deicing system most likely (which he talks about in other videos, this is old news). It is great to see that he has a working model now. I don't know if I like the idea of wireless in there, hackers and what not. I would still keep tethered control to all that, which shouldn't be hard at all. I don't know that it is reasonable for it to act like a bridge and not a road. If the water washes away its support base...like a normal road, it collapsing is par for course, roads shouldn't be over-engineered to be bridges unless the cost is free. Also, if the road has power, you could have pressure sensors on it to feel for road imbalance issues which is much better than having to deal with potholes. I wonder about traction issues in rain. It could channel water much better than asphalt, but what if it is saturated? Then again, running my own hand against this glass surface with a lot of weight has a pretty high resistance.

Most of you keep talking about how the road needs to be perfectly flat. Well, they don't. Otherwise the concrete pads of the interstates would need to be perfectly flat. These are 3x3 squares. Every video game character you play is made up of squares and triangles. A spiked ridge between the LED/P-V "pucks" would take care of any water caused splipping.

Just because you can find fault with the guy's "ultimate" roadway, a ton of the ideas could be implemented without full conversion.

How about using those LED/P-V pucks on highways to merely to show where the lanes are at night? They could "pave" the centre and shoulder areas to provide power for streetlights and not affect the traffic surface.

...then again, I'm sure some fool would go out onto the crosswalk and play Dance Dance Revolution and get hit by an ice cream truck.

>> ^Payback:

Most of you keep talking about how the road needs to be perfectly flat. Well, they don't. Otherwise the concrete pads of the interstates would need to be perfectly flat. These are 3x3 squares. Every video game character you play is made up of squares and triangles. A spiked ridge between the LED/P-V "pucks" would take care of any water caused splipping.
Just because you can find fault with the guy's "ultimate" roadway, a ton of the ideas could be implemented without full conversion.
How about using those LED/P-V pucks on highways to merely to show where the lanes are at night? They could "pave" the centre and shoulder areas to provide power for streetlights and not affect the traffic surface.


You could also have dynamic road deployment and redeployment. Need to rewire your entire highways system for an evacuation? No problem, reconfigure all signage and postings to make all available roads outgoing only, now, short of the likely bottlenecks, you have doubled your outbound traffic ability. Really, the sky is the limit. Any level of smartness to the roads brings with in untold innovation. The physical problems seem very manageable and knowable, but the benefits are easily hidden and largely unrealized. The potential is mind blowing though. Solar powered streets and buildings just makes to much since not to try and make work. So much free energy in these already used places, we just need the means to effectively harvest it, and this seems like a great idea, in any final form it takes. It is worth mentioning that glass is non-crystalline. Meaning it can flex and bend over time. Look at any old house and the windows are thicker on the bottom then the top. So it can deal with gradual gradient changes, how well is a matter of engineering.

Wow... If I had the money I would so invest in this guy... not sure he'll pull it off, but damn is he thinking outside the box...

>> ^ponceleon:

Wow... If I had the money I would so invest in this guy... not sure he'll pull it off, but damn is he thinking outside the box...


Yes, it's more like little squares! (ZING!)

one step closer to tron

If you look at most freeways, they gradually slope across the surface for water drainage. So no they are not perfectly flat, but the goal for people preparing subgrades is to make the surface as even as possible while maintaining the desired grade. If the surface is really even, that means there will be the minimum amount of overage on materials when it comes to asphalt. If they prepare it properly, the machine can be set at 2-3-4 inches thick and lay all day at that depth, and when they move over to the next lane, they can lay the same thickness and maintain the grade without having to adjust. That's the goal, it meets the specs of the job and doesn't cost them in overages on material....and if they are majorly over...someone screwed up.

Now....I'm pointing out flaws in this roadway because if they were to use his design and it failed miserably there would be less chance of them ever doing it again. So what's the fault in putting it in applications where it would see more extreme conditions in a lower traffic zone to get a proof of concept? Or hell even put it on a bike path or sidewalk, if it holds up superbly for a few years......move onto a military base to see how well it holds up to extreme abuse of their heavy machinery.

Just slapping it down on a highway because that would be cool is a sure fire way to kill this prospect dead in it's tracks for a long time to come. Prove it lasts, prove it provides savings, and prove it's as safe as or better than current materials under all possible road conditions. Highways may be the goal, but it isn't the first step on an unproven concept.

Personally I think if they did this on bike paths, they'd have more luck pushing it forward..because bike paths are all about the green initiative...so if they can also kick some energy savings back to the city while testing their product. No one loses there if the materials work, and if they don't.....at least it's just a bike path that needs re-surfaced.



>> ^Payback:

Most of you keep talking about how the road needs to be perfectly flat. Well, they don't. Otherwise the concrete pads of the interstates would need to be perfectly flat. These are 3x3 squares. Every video game character you play is made up of squares and triangles. A spiked ridge between the LED/P-V "pucks" would take care of any water caused splipping.
Just because you can find fault with the guy's "ultimate" roadway, a ton of the ideas could be implemented without full conversion.
How about using those LED/P-V pucks on highways to merely to show where the lanes are at night? They could "pave" the centre and shoulder areas to provide power for streetlights and not affect the traffic surface.

I wasn't even thinking about highways personally, I was thinking surface streets. I thought of another neat feature you could have! You could have emergency vehicles be in touch with the road. The road itself would broadcast a signal 300 yards ahead of him on the ground stating he was coming your way. It would be dynamic, so they warning would be scrolling along ahead of him. You could have smart car/road, relationships. The road itself would be aware of traffic. If the road knew average travel speeds of all the roads around you, and your car itself knew its destination they could negotiate on the best route given the data. Dynamic, flexible, detour routing could be done on the fly for accidents, or just routing of traffic in general. Really, the possibilities are as awesome as they are endless.

>> ^GeeSussFreeK: ...Dynamic, flexible, detour routing could be done on the fly for accidents...



Dynamic, flexible, speeding tickets too.

It's definitely an admirable effort. I agree however, there are probably logistical concerns that haven't been completely worked out yet. I also think he may have oversold the energy capture possibilities (what if I'm, say, parked in my photovoltaic driveway?).

Still, there is potential. Maybe it makes more sense to roll this out as a sidewalk material to start? You'd avoid many of the major concerns you all have pointed out (no semis, for instance), but you'd still get many advantages, like modular signing, material substitution, and energy collection.

This is definitely one of those ideas that could only work on paper. Is it "possible"? Sure - we could make a bunch of glass roads. Would they work as billed? A little yes but mostly no. Would it be affordable compared to asphalt or concrete? Definitely not..

Solar power is just one of those things that people refuse to admit is just a pipe dreams because the idea is so romantic. It conjures up mental images of the Jetsons where power is free and everyone is flying to work on their solar powered suitcase cars. The brutal reality of solar power is that it is incredibly expensive, terribly inefficient, and hobbled by battery technology which itself is about one step away from pointed sticks. The limitations make solar power unlikely to ever have any role except as a tiny niche of the energy market.

@Winstonfield_Pennypacker everytime I see you writing some of your opinions, things you state as fact are never backed up by any kind of source material. You just assume everything you talk about is common knowledge. So I'll just have to disagree with your way of presenting your thoughts(although I don't necessarily disagree with them).

I could write a wall of text providing detail on everything I've said about solar power. Is that what you want? Humans have been fiddling with batteries for centuries and with solar cells since the 1940s. Progress has been slow not because people haven't been trying or because there hasn't been money thrown at the issue. People have been trying to make solar work for decades, and have sunk billions into research. And yet - here we are - and solar power isn't good for squat except powering calculators and heating water. You can't change the laws of physics.

Until some genius discovers a brand new technology, solar power will remain unviable except for limited applications. Ma Bell made the first solar cell in 1954 and the basic design & technology is still the same. Batteries? New metals haven't changed the fact that they're localized, heavy, toxic, and expensive.

I know some folks wish otherwise. But solar just isn't a good alternative. If we're going to go to an electricity economy then it's going to need to be done with nuclear. This guy's road? A cute idea - but conspicuously absent in this video is any cost analysis or description of exactly how he's going to get the collected power from the road to your house or business. Energy doesn't just magically wait around for you to use it. It's got to be moved from point A to point B, and has to be stored somewhere until its accessed. Currently it costs around 10,000 dollars just to get enough solar paneling (ignoring the batteries, cables, fixtures & labor) to power one small house. Panelling the entire road system? Yeah, right... (b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b...)

I just found a TEDx event where he presented this (see here) and he makes an interesting point: these don't have to be roads. They can be parking lots, walkways or playgrounds. They're aiming for parking lots first so that, as he put it, they can learn from their mistakes at low speeds rather than throwing them into the fast lane and seeing what happens.

Solar cells have reached 40% effectiveness, which is far more than any conventional energy source. The tech has come leaps and bounds from what you refer to. Nuclear isn't the answer either as peak uranium is about as close away as peak oil. The fact is, free photos rain down with a total solar energy hitting Earth at around 10^17 Watts, and that is just on the earths surface. Tapping into just a portion of that is worth it. Extra planetary collectors would fetch nearly double of their earth bound brethren. Solar makes to much since to ignore. In other videos, he talks about the cost, and it was about as costly as a second of equivalently maintained asphalt, and that doesn't even factor in the energy they provide as an offset.

The ball has to start rolling. As others pointed out, replacing all sidewalks with something like this would be a great start. Smart sidewalks have whole other neat set of applications! Hey Mr. Smart phone, why don't you sync up with the side walk and point me in the direction of that bar I am going to...I shall follow the sidewalk arrows until I arrive!

If you are talking about technological costs, the always goes down fast with time. Problem is there are about 20 different sets of competing technologies that are still viaing for dominance. We are only about 10 years away from paper printing, high yield cells. With a modular system like the one proposed, outdated units could be phased out for newer ones very easily. In the end, it takes a doer to get this done, it is easy to be a naysayer and poke holes in the boat. I mean, the internet, surely that would never work. Hurdles can usually be overcome, doing nothing can't be.

I see 4 major problems with this...

I see is tires running on a wet glass road. The glass is a lot flatter than asphalt, and so hydroplaning will be far more prevalent unless specific tires were made to cope.

Further, the cost issue will be catastrophic. Solar panels are very, very expensive. Manufacturing solar cells these days is a fairly dirty process, with many very hazardous bi-products. Producing enough solar cells to cover even just major roads would be problematic.

There is also a huge issue of light pollution. Upward facing LEDs replacing road lines is going light up the night sky to absurd degrees, especially in the already light doused cities.

And finally, there is the issue of shifting roads. No matter where you are, soil is always moving. Look outside at the nearest street and see if you can't find a crack due to soil shearing. This will be especially bad in certain geographic locations. Breaking of the roads will require challenging repairs and custom peices to be made. Further, if the roads are replacing power lines as was suggested, power outages would occur as a result of these road breaks, and restoring power will take as long as it takes to fix the road, weeks probably, longer if there is severe damage from natural disasters, earthquakes, etc.

I love the ingenuity, but it is just not practical...

Roads shifting isn't a problem for glass, as long as the glass is made for that spec. Glass isn't a solid, it is more like a trapped liquid. As such, it shifts around depending on the structure of glass, it could be made to cope with different level tolerances for movement. So, it is more an application of engineering than some insurmountable problem.

The amount of light that WON'T be reflected back and instead harness would out shine any led I would suppose, though don't know.

There should be no doubt that solar cells aren't a clean tech in terms of it is an industrial process. But it is still much better than supporting the oil refining process for taring up the soil. However, the future of solar technology is moving away from large silicon sheets to small, cleaner applications.

Costs of technology are always high until they hit wide spread use. With that, comes innovation that you can't calculate for. Just look at food, or computers, technology is one of those things you can almost count on getting cheaper. And as the video points out, oil and oil based derivatives aren't cheap currently. If 2 things cost near the same, and one also pays for itself, then the math is in your favor

Glass isn't just made from silica nowadays. You can make mostly transparent glass for metals, salts, and other compounds. The result is, among other things, a blend of textures and groves, and other microscopic features. You could actually construct your glass to have microscopic barbs to yield you a greater net traction effect than most surfaces.

The point here is, like most technologies, it is just how you get it to work at what price point with how much functionality...not if. Going to the moon with a computer that is less powerful than your pocket calculator is hard, this is considerably easier problem