I don't care if you grew up with this from day one, at one point in you're life you have to realize that you're living like an idiot.

Yeah I don't give a shit what else they've got going for them, the way they treat women makes me fucking sick. The weird thing is most people here in Canada grew up with one or two muslim girls who are still willing to accept arranged marriages... there's a couple girls from my high school who are now married to fat greasy guys from the UAE and Dubai. One of them used to pass out blowjobs in the trunk of her car lol.

Religious tradition aside, this is like watching some California dingbat giving us a guided-flakes tour, and explaining her arcane affectations....

Realizing you are living in a despotic system requires free thought.

Free thought is dangerous and discouraged thoroughly in Saudia Arabia, not because of religion, but mostly because it would make the population realize that the royal family holds none of their interests in mind as they gallop around the world in the private jets.

Ya know the attitude of "they don't do what we do so they must be wrong" is exactly the same attitude that got us in to a mess of a war that we can't possibly win.

Oh noes! someone has a culture that we don't understand!!!

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Very interesting

At some point, though, GoogTube, political correctness and respecting others' cultures is just no longer relevant. The extent of inequality between the sexes shown in this very clip cannot be justified by recognizing that it is out of a different context; I can't conscience things like female circumcision or the restriction of human life to this extent on the basis of cultural difference. Just because something is a part of a culture different from ours doesn't mean it can't be wrong or unjust or sickening.

" Ya know the attitude of "they don't do what we do so they must be wrong" is exactly the same attitude that got us in to a mess of a war that we can't possibly win."

They (the Saudi Royals) aren't wrong because they don't do what we do. They are wrong because they are despotic and sexist.

Are you a cultural relativist or something?

Oh.... her eyes... so hot.... SO HOT!!!


BTW, I just gotta say this... Sometimes the people in videosift become so psycho-liberal that they are willing to say whatever, and don't know what they're actually saying.

You know in some places the people walk around naked. Are we living in a country of inequality because we have laws forcing us to wear clothes? We are bound by laws which reflect our culture the same as the arabs are. Men can walk around topless, Women can't, Simply because we see the exposed female chest as something not to be shown in public.

We also send women off to different rooms, We have pictures of men and women on toilet doors and changing rooms. It's highly inappropriate for a man to share a toilet or changing room with a woman.

It's called a cultural difference, get over it and stop being so arrogant in the assumption that our laws regarding clothes and segregation are ok, But theirs are not..

Wow. Talk about faux equivalences and false analogies.

At least I have my answer about the cultural relativism, though.

You only see them as false analogies because you don't like them. One culture prefers being naked, One prefers it if women keep thier shirts on and one prefers it if women cover thier hair.

What IS the difference? The only difference is we do it one way, And they do it another way, So it's natural that people whos cultural influences have forced him/her in to dressing a certain way will see what others do as being "incorrect".

I'm sure the cultures that walk around naked would see us as being as oppressed and repressed as most westerners seem to think arabs are.

it seems the only alternative to being a cultural relativist is to be intolerant to the fact that some times some people may do things a little different than we do, Whether that be to walk around naked or to wear a hijab or veil. We can't assume that we are correct and they are incorrect just because they are different.

I don't care if you grew up with this from day one, at one point in you're life you have to realize that you're living like an idiot.

I know. When will we in the western world realize that growing up to become consumer slaves, with our gas guzzling automobiles and endless appetites for material goods, will result in our eventual destruction. Idiots, we are.

Googtube is talking out of his ass.

Just because an activity varies by ethnicity or geographic location and thus can be labeled as a part of one's 'culture' does not mean it must be on equal ethical footing with any other ethnicity's/location's activities.

In the 1800s it was American culture to enslave and treat poorly people of African ancestry. These women are not treated appreciably better. And I imagine there were Americans born into slavery who were complacent with it; for many people, realizing their current situation is unacceptable first requires experiencing something better.

And yes, women not being allowed to go topless in public is discriminatory and unfair; restrooms and dressing rooms segregated by sex, while perhaps not discriminatory, is goofy and caters to a minority with a juvenile fear of the opposite sex. (To see the absurdity, imagine a point in the future when the momentum of homophobia has dwindled even further, causing a perhaps significantly larger portion of the population to be bisexual. There would need to be three more bathrooms in addition to a Men's and a Women's. Gay men and gay women, and bisexuals would all need their own facilities. And the gays' and bisexuals' bathrooms could only allow one occupant at a time. All this just so nobody is seen stepping into or out of a stall by another who might find him/her attractive.)

You guys need to take some culture class. Not everyone is the same and has to follow the same rules.

This was a great clip. Nice pad!

GoogTube -

I just want to make sure I am hearing what you're saying and that you accept the logical consequences of the position it appears you are espousing...

You would find it morally acceptable if another society (as sineral mentions) enslaved another group of people along ethnic/racial/religious/gender lines if this was their "culture'? If beating these slaves or even killing them for culturally recognized transgressions were their norm - you would be ok with that and take the attitude, "who are we to judge?"

You point up some interesting cultural biases in our own society but unfortunately these do not rise to the level of denying self-determination that is seen in Saudi culture. If the enforced wearing of veils, burkas, hajibs, etc were the only inequality in Saudi society (indeed many muslim cultures) between the sexes, I could maybe accept your point as valid.

But denying women education, independence, freedom or any approximation of equality in male-female relationships cannot possibly compare in any sort of rational way to having separate bathrooms, or having to wear clothes (please note that you can wear just about any damn thing you want - male or female).

I will agree that these are cultural conventions and may differ from society to society (with perhaps some relatively minor infringements on personal freedom) but if that's the best you got, I'd say this argument is over.

" You only see them as false analogies because you don't like them..."

No, I see them as false analogies because there are (rather obvious) morally relevant differences between them. I'm sorry you feel that "tolerance"--or whatever bastardization of it you are peddling--requires you to overlook them.

"The only difference is we do it one way, And they do it another way, So it's natural that people whos cultural influences have forced him/her in to dressing a certain way will see what others do as being "incorrect"."

No, that is not the only difference, and to say so indicates a profound misunderstanding of the way cultures view both themselves and their interactions with other cultures.

Moreover, you know very little about what it is "natural" for me to do. I was raised a Muslim. My father is Pakistani. My mother (a convert to Islam) wore a hijab every time we left the house for most of my childhood. In other words, I speak from a place on the border between 2 cultures. I have experience with what might be considered a broader Islamic culture, but also with the current "American" culture.

It's reasoning and research rooted in that dual perspective which has lead me to the conclusion that many Muslim countries treat their women poorly. So, don't condescend to tell me how I'm thinking. You simply don't know enough about me, or the cultures you are attempting to defend, for that matter.

"I'm sure the cultures that walk around naked would see us as being as oppressed and repressed as most westerners seem to think arabs are."

Maybe. But that's irrelevant. The question is whether or not that opinion could be supported by the evidence.

"it seems the only alternative to being a cultural relativist is to be intolerant to the fact that some times some people may do things a little different than we do. . .We can't assume that we are correct and they are incorrect just because they are different."

That's a false dichotomy, unless you think toleration is synonomous with "agreement" or "endorsement." What's more, even a cultural relativist cannot be completely "tolerant" in that sense, since they are committed to the idea that THEIR culture is entitled to its own practices and beliefs, and these will--given the amount of diversity in the world--inevitably conflict with the cultural mandates of another group. And, for the last time, I'm not assuming that others are incorrect "just because" they are different. You can keep repeating that all you like, but I won't be duped by your sophistry.

I suggest you read the chapter on cultural relativism from "The Elements of Moral Philosophy, 4th Ed," by James Rachels. It might help you think more clearly on this matter.

Tofumar, I think you're veering off from the main argument.

What you're arguing now is 'you don't have enough knowledge to defend my culture', which is a totally different ballpark. And I got no opinion on that.

For the record, I support GoogTube's 'Stance'. Who are we to tell them how to do things in their home? In fact, that's the attitude we Americans have that makes us the most hated country in the world.

We all have different idea of how to do things. I mean, I think dog eating is wrong, but when your country has been colonized and and your family is starving, who am I to say 'Ay, dogs are a man's best friend!' to their face?

Plus, it's the friggin desert. You Americans every been to the middle east? The sun is friggin hot. You gotta cover up or otherwise you'll dehydrate. There's a reason why both women AND men wear long thin fabrics to cover their entire body to maximize airflow and minimize exposure to sun.

It's an old tradition stemming from practicality. They didn't invent the hijab just to make women miserable. Yeah, they've urbanized rapidly, especially after World War 2. So it may not fit your urban lifestyle. But saying hijab is some device of the devil created 'just' to hinder women's lifestyle is just stupid.

Your concept of beauty also comes into play here. Women of Asia find pale skin beautiful. Obviously you've seen girls of Asia with umbrellas in sunshiny days. They don't want tans, they wanna stay pale. But what do you do when you're in the desert and the sun is always shiny? You wear a hijab to not get tanned.

Over time it no longer became a choice to wear hijab, but obligatory to wear one. Yea, that's fucked up, and that kind of oppressive society should change since middle east now has a pretty strong economy, and is no longer in need of such harsh ways to govern themselves. But again, wearing hijab itself isn't a sin, especially when you're out in the sun.

*islam

Adding video to channels (Islam) - requested by Zonbie.

Well Mid Class heh, in our country as RICH CLASS!!!
Hah, that's makes me sick!!! By the way want to swallow 8.000.000 barrels oil at once!!!
Then makes me full of SICK!!!
SALAM.

*dead

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