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I kinda expected him to yell "Broccoli Bitches!" at the end of the speech.

No major piece of legislation gets passed these days without tipping the balance in favor of corporate interests over those of the people, especially in the Citizens United age. For every one thing in a law that favors the people, the insanely powerful and wealthy interests at play get the same plus some.

The Political Football season just opened. Now the real fight can begin.

This is a step in the right direction.

Not complete. But it's the right direction.

Well good thing we can finally afford this kind of stuff now that the economy is fixed.

haha bobknight... yea, the real fight .. the fight to keep a straight face pretending Obama isnt a shoe-in ... good luck with that

While I agree that business holds much more sway over our current government than I am comfortable with, they are still a legitimate constituency. Passing this bill, in spite of all the concessions Obama had to make to business, is still a major accomplishment that will expand care to a large number of people that could not otherwise not afford it. It may be a far cry from superior health care systems in Canada or the UK, but it's still a huge step in the right direction for a country that has allowed the private sector to put healthcare out of reach to so many for so long. We've got our foot in the door. Savor the moment.

>> ^criticalthud:

No major piece of legislation gets passed these days without tipping the balance in favor of corporate interests over those of the people, especially in the Citizens United age. For every one thing in a law that favors the people, the insanely powerful and wealthy interests at play get the same plus some.

ceo bonuses correction.. thank god! ---- wait, what about the bank bail out where the ceo's just kept the money for themselves. unfortunately they did loose there job, or they didn't. obama's admin just hired them.

I'm as giddy as the next fella about, gasp, Roberts putting his stamp on this. I'm still left wondering, when did Barack lose the ability to give an inspiring speech? I mean, it happened so slowly, but over the course of 4 years he went from JFK to John Kerry.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

While I agree that business holds much more sway over our current government than I am comfortable with, they are still a legitimate constituency. Passing this bill, in spite of all the concessions Obama had to make to business, is still a major accomplishment that will expand care to a large number of people that could not otherwise not afford it. It may be a far cry from superior health care systems in Canada or the UK, but it's still a huge step in the right direction for a country that has allowed the private sector to put healthcare out of reach to so many for so long. We've got our foot in the door. Savor the moment.
>> ^criticalthud:
No major piece of legislation gets passed these days without tipping the balance in favor of corporate interests over those of the people, especially in the Citizens United age. For every one thing in a law that favors the people, the insanely powerful and wealthy interests at play get the same plus some.



I'd love to agree with you. but did anyone notice insurance companies taking a bath yesterday on wall street? - i think we can safely say that the drafters of this law (largely, insurance companies) wrote in language that will protect their profit margin.

and even if insurance companies are losing profit in the short run, they are gaining a significant amount of power over the people, one that gives them, their paid-for-government, and whatever private security corps they choose buckets of reasons to finish trampling on any privacy notions we might have.

and all the elements that makes american "health" care suck are still firmly in place.

the first and most important job of an insurance company is to convince you that you need them.
the second is price fixing.

2nd let's not forget that there has been giant problems and debate on this for 40 years. the only reason it came to a head was because the astronomical rise in health care (insurance) costs were biting into the profits of all industries that were NOT in healthcare. For the people, there has been a necessity there for 40 years. but that's not what spurred actual action on it.

Now I'd really like to believe that our corporate bought government decided to do the right thing rather than shift the burden of cost to the public, but our past history and current situation dictates otherwise.

and i'm not saying the public didn't get anything, i'm just saying it is quite in proportion to what we just lost.

and i'll say this too before shutting the hell up,

did anyone notice how "electronic records" have been emphasized over and over again as a way to cut costs?

surely there is some eventual cost cutting there, but electronic records are just as much about data-basing and information gathering, ie: data mining. This, along with heightened access to your financial and tax records, will allow insurance companies to price fix at a degree previously unheard of.

there is always another layer

Who's moving to Canada to avoid socialized medicine?

what a paradox to deal with people pretending we all wont need what we already know we will need ... insurance ... and pretending we need to pay CEO's and pay administrative overhead for obstructionist paperwork that is in between YOU and your DOCTOR, which is currently the system.

What happened in peoples lives that makes them have the stockholm syndrome for corporations?? do they not know about cannabis? shrug, its all getting a little much.

You're running out of time to find things to blame on Obama. And things to blame on him, in general...

Look how fast Bush Jr got out of the scene... while Cheney still runs his fuckin mouth. Guess how things went when they were in office? Gimme a break.

Bush was a puppet and his attitude was, as long as you can breathe things will work out. How else is the rich son of an ex-CIA chief supposed to feel? empathy for poor people? LOL

and here we have one of the most successful sitting presidents in history, who has ended discrimination in the military, the war in iraq, killed bin laden, and saved the economy (remember, either a bailout wasnt enough or it was... and it wasn't... meaning it HAD to happen, sorry you lose)

its my own mental illness that i want to gloat that we are all going to be better off... HAHA IN YOUR FACE WE ALL GET A FAIRER SYSTEM .. what's your mental illness in wanting everything you've been told to want, and your willingness to kill for it? Who is really sick here... *tokes*

I haven;t watched this yet... how many times does he say "look"?

>> ^MrFisk:

Who's moving to Canada to avoid socialized medicine?


That'll work actually, we've stopped paying for immigrants' medical expenses.

I'll throw this out there since The Sift tends to have some pretty insightful folks on it, and I'm trying to get a better perspective on this issue.

I'm a small business owner. We're a new business, and we're growing. Things are still pretty lean.
I would love to be able to provide health insurance coverage for my employees that aren't covered through their spouses. I hate seeing them avoid going to the doctor because they don't think they can afford it, or avoiding prescriptions because they're too expensive. It's not good for them, and it isn't good for our business if they're not healthy.
I've looked into group health insurance, including a couple of state-subsidized plans that pay half of the premium for eligible employees. I can't afford to pay the entire premiums on those, and even half would be a stretch, and my employees can't (or don't think they can) afford to pay even half themselves.
They don't have health insurance because they can't afford a policy that's worth having.

The way I've understood the ACA is that, come 2014, they'll have no choice but to buy a policy they haven't been able to afford, or buy a limited-benefits or high-deductible plan that isn't of any practical use to them to avoid paying a tax for not having insurance.
(But there's no penalty for not paying the tax?)

Is there more to the ACA that gives employees like mine (and employers like me) better options?

@ReverendTed You're incorrect about what happens in 2014. Here's a good overview of what the mandate actually means: http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2012/06/affordable_care_acts_mandate_d.html

>> ^KnivesOut:

@ReverendTed You're incorrect about what happens in 2014. Here's a good overview of what the mandate actually means: http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2012/06/a
ffordable_care_acts_mandate_d.html
Thanks for the link, KO. That's an excellent synopsis of the individual mandate provisions that I hadn't seen or read elsewhere.



That said, I'm not convinced it makes my statement incorrect.
My employees are not American Indians, prisoners, Old Order Amish, covered by Medicare\Medicaid or undocumented immigrants. They will be required to purchase insurance or pay the penalty tax.
Depending on their salary, even with taxpayer subsidies they will be responsible for devoting (probably) 6.3% or 9.5% of their income to insurance, or be taxed at or around 1%-2.5% of their income.
As I mentioned, we've investigated state-subsidized policies before (which weren't terrible, but weren't "Cadillac" policies by any stretch) and my employees determined it wasn't feasible for them.

One provision I don't understand is the exclusion of "those who earn so little that health insurance premiums, after federal subsidies and employer contributions, would total more than 8 percent of their income." How is it determined that premiums would total more than 8% of income? Doesn't that depend on the type of policy?

(Yes, I appreciate that my comments come across as biased against ACA. I'll admit that I am skeptical and that it runs counter to my personal ideology, but I am genuinely interested in learning more about what it means from a practical standpoint.)

@ReverendTed I guess it depends on how much they make. People making up to %400 of the poverty line will get subsidized help buying their insurance, in the form of reduced and/or capped premiums. %400 poverty is up to $92000 a year for a family, so it seems like they're directly targeting the middle class for aide.

>> ^KnivesOut:

@ReverendTed I guess it depends on how much they make. People making up to %400 of the poverty line will get subsidized help buying their insurance, in the form of reduced and/or capped premiums. %400 poverty is up to $92000 a year for a family, so it seems like they're directly targeting the middle class for aide.
Most if not all of my employees will fall between 200% and 400%, I suspect, so it's true that they'll get help, but "subsidy" doesn't mean they're getting it for free.


They still have to pay for it, up to no more than 6.3% of their income, which probably means "exactly 6.3% of their income" because insurance is expensive, especially if you want a policy worth paying for.
This is money they've been spending on other things. Money that so far they've chosen not (or haven't been able) to spend on insurance. I'll have to do the calculations for a couple of my employees to see how the mandate compares to the options we've seen previously.

Putting aside the tortured "logic" of this horrible Court decision, here's the straight dope:

People who couldn't or wouldn't pay for health insurance are now forced at gunpoint to pay for it.

Boy that's new, before there were limits to federal power. Now for the first time, the federal mafia can force you to buy a product, and if you refuse, they illegally penalize you under the guise of a "tax", an argument so warped even His Earness didn't use it.

If the formerly uninsured don't have the money or refuse to pay for health insurance, someone else pays the tab anyway (you can't easily put 30 million people in prison).

In other words, nothing has changed, except for expanded unconstitutional government powers and huge, economy-destroying tax hikes with 19,000 new IRS agent/enforcers to collect.

If there's one constant in life, it's whenever government gets involved in business, everything gets cheaper and more efficient.

1) Vote taxocrat
2) watch sh1t gets worse
3) Blame Bush
4) repeat until revolution