*promote

Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Sunday, December 1st, 2013 12:48pm PST - promote requested by original submitter Grimm.

Taken from "The God Debate II: Harris vs. Craig" at Notre Dame University(@59:30)
Full debate here http://youtu.be/yqaHXKLRKzg

Obviously he never learned to understand the Bible or GOD!

"understand" = pick and choose.

Here's another mash up of the same talk.

FYI - On that link "WARNING: Contains horrific images of natural disaster aftermath that may be offensive or hard for some people"

Yes, why doesn't he understand Gods need to kill tens of thousands of babies just to prove himself. See, some call it Passover, I like to call it Dead Baby Day.

*quality

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by Lendl.

The pictures of children dying are rather overboard but I digress. Also, the argument about God not being able to stop suffering or death is a false argument. And here is why.

You know children that cannot feel any pain sensation at all? They scratch their own eyeballs out or rip holes into their flesh. They also don't feel pleasure. Why shouldn't God take away pain? Because survival says that's fucking stupid.

Also, sadness or happiness or anything MUST have a counterpart to even exist. Tragedy brings happiness. We miss our children only because we loved them and we loved them only because we know we might not always have that chance. However, mankind brings more tragedy than naturally balancing and we bring far more than God will ever bring. (I don't believe in God so I believe we are all the root for excessive suffering.)

And something this guy doesn't seem to get--there is more than one Christian denomination. Like Bob, many Christians pick and choose their material and adapt the bible to their own principles. Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in hell at all, and many denominations feel that those who did not have a chance, ie. people in India, will be just fine... So yeah, he's an ass. He needs to pick up a book besides the bible and read it to learn, not to hate.

This argument is certainly dumber by far. On this logic, we should never have invented vaccines or penicillin, after all, these medical advances, and countless others, means we are bereaved of thousands of opportunities to fuel our happiness with tragedy every day.. Trying to justify tragedy by Gods pragmatism is nonsensical on so many levels.

And yeah, there is more than one Christian denomination, and many of them contradict each other, I'm pretty sure Harris is aware of this fact. However, he is arguing against a common or at least widespread interpretation, and the logical consequences of such an interpretation. I believe this video is from a debate with William Lane Craig, who is a catholic, which may explain why it seems to be focused on classic catholic themes (Suffering of Jesus, threat of hell etc.) If you don't believe in hell, then obviously many of the arguments in this video does not apply. Fine. Many believe in hell, thus the arguments applies to those people.

Well, we both agree on the non-existence of god, I am glad to say, but your point here is still nonsense, the idea that humans are the culprit of most human suffering is just wrong. Sure, there are some dreadful examples, but by far, most suffering comes from non-human controlled factors like disease, disasters, random accidents etc. Humans have actually done quite a bit to reduce the "naturally" occurring death and suffering visited upon us (like medicine or early warning systems for bad weather etc) We have also raised the living standards from a fearful, ignorant, dangerous habitat for at least some parts of the world.

Honestly, this is a settled question at this point.

No reasonable moral person believes you get your morality from god.

If you genuinely believe that, you are mentally ill.

*controversy

Adding video to channels (Controversy) - requested by MrFisk.

Interesting bit on how Jesus was invented...

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm

Not following the advice of the Bible: never argue with an idiot, it is hard to tell who the idiot is: hoping there is someone here who is more interested in the truth than an ideology, (yeah agnosticism and atheism are ideologies), as well as Christianity. I wise man will hear council and rebuke.
Seriously, I hesitate to say this because it screams out so obviously: this is such a ridiculous argument based on probably an underlying wound from Christianity, or more likely a poor Christian role model. It is designed and constructed on emotion and inflammatory to Christians, so we get so mad we cannot think straight and give a good answer. So let me explain why his founding presumptions are wrong:
He states: Any God that allows such suffering of Children and parents is either impotent or evil.
Really? You can’t think of any other possibilities? How about freedom is more important than suffering? Foremost in the Bible we are all free moral agents. God will not step over this except in exceptionally rare instances. I have the freedom to do good or evil. If I choose to pull out a gun and kill a person, good or evil, that person will die. There are consequences of actions and mitigating consequences frequently leads to a reoccurrence of the action. I am not saying a baby dyeing of malaria is a result of someone’s action but how we (human race) grows is by learning most often by mistakes and pain and suffering. Pain and suffering is what life is all about.
How about looking at the long term consequences over the short term? This is a common mistake made among liberals. It should have been written in scripture no pain no gain. Are you going to say you should avoid the short term pain of a needle to inoculate malaria? The short term pain nets a good result in the end. I know this is a stretch but nobody knows the results of all the suffering going on in the world but as for me I trust God does and is working on us the best way. I like to look at the whole planet and all the living organisms as one thing God is working on. He is out for our best. I can tell you this, there is a purpose for everything, despite the fact that we can perceive it, comprehend it or like it.
You should read the whole series Dune by Frank Herbert, I won’t spoil it for you but the series looks at the Human race in a similar perspective.
I could go on and on but I have to work. I hope this offends.

I've always thought of it this way: Humans who go to hell are the true sacrifice to God. So pray to the damned or you're an asshole.

At least, that's what I would believe if I believed in THIS god.

Why did we make penicillin? Because we all have unlimited happiness and no sickness or death? Or because of my argument? We learn such happiness through successes such as medicine. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just the way life is. We see colors by the contrasts.

Also, you argue that you are "pretty sure Harris is aware" which means "I am just bullshitting and have nothing more to add." Does he? He hates Christianity so much I doubt it; also, and would it matter? I mean all blacks, I mean Christians, are alike. When we hate all blacks, I mean Christians, the exceptions don't matter. They all like fried chicken, have big lips and have little education.

I have to point this distinction out because Harris hunts ALL Christians with his argument, and so spreads out the batshit arguments against them as applying to ALL of them.

Whoa...death is not a tragedy or suffering, it is natural and for the love of, sorry the pun, I hope not to live forever. That punishment would be unbearable. Who the fuck would be stupid enough to want that?

And we raised the standard of living off the suffering of others. Slavery, colonialism, racial oppression, for fuck sake we made the holocaust and nukes to prove we like to taste suffering. Now being showered to death by gas and being melted but alive by radiation--that's fucked up.

Capitalism isn't much better. And we are only able to sit at our tables with smiles and a good life because we have abundance (At others' suffering.) What happens when that lifestyle runs out? I mean really runs out. Will we still be so civil? I say fuck no...