"I was 28 yrs old" ... "with a young woman nearly half my age".
Now, I'm no mathematician but I'm pretty sure that "nearly half" of 28 is somewhere beneath 14. Maybe it's 10. I don't know. But the most it could be is 13. So a 28 yr old man and a 13 yr old girl are having a supposedly "non-sexual" experience, naked, in a hot tub. Yet, somehow, he is the victim. He decides to run for congress and his ugly secret comes back to haunt him, so he tries to pay off the woman. "She agreed to keep this 25 yr old secret confidential." And apparently, since he wrote the check, that seemed like money well spent to him. Now the payment is a "mistake" because his pedophilia is being exposed anyway. So, having no other choice, he comes out and admits it, and receives applause and hugs all around.

I'm not here to advocate anything here...,
But I find it interesting lately that Pedophilia is becoming the new "Buzz Word."

A word that contains the ultimate stigma of the most despicable of crimes. A word that can end a person's career, destroy so many lives and leave people on the brink of suicide. Crimes against children are considered the worst crime a person can commit, even in prison by the most hardened of convicts and killers. It is a term that drudges up slimy characters, sneaking kids into secluded places, taking photos, and worse.

This word is being thrown around like a hot potato in a witch hunt lately. It is one of the crimes I keep hearing over and over lately, and I'm not sure many who use this term, use it in the same/correct context.

1). First - Letter of the law. Having "dealings" with Minor is illegal. Many countries have different definitions of minor so the term is used loosely.

2). Pedophilia is a a psychological disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children.

3). Again, I do not condone anything here but this term doesn't reside here.
This girl was not prepubescent. There is no proof of the existence of pedophilia. Yes, she was a minor, Yes that makes it illegal.

4). What this girl did was in itself extortion. Extortion is a federal criminal offense which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion.

This girl was 15-years-old at the time, a minor but not a child. She made herself guilty of an offense when she began blackmailing him after knowing that he was running for U.S congress.

Sorry @burdturgler , this wasn't purely aimed at you, but I've been hearing it so much lately and often out of context. We wouldn't want the term to become common place and loose it's impact when dealing with the Truly Disturbed!

>> ^burdturgler:
Now the payment is a "mistake" because his pedophilia is being exposed anyway.

Well, it wasn't put in the tags or my comment as a "buzzword". Last I heard, when a man of 28 years old seduces a 13 year old girl to join him naked in a hot tub, he has committed an act of pedophilia. Maybe she was 15. Like I said, I am only going by his own words as far as the age. Either way, this was a crime against a child. You say this girl committed "extortion" but this alleged extortion did not occur until long after this woman was an adult. Regardless, her acts do not reconcile his acts. You say a 15 year old girl is a minor but not a child. You think that somehow it is ok? You think a 15 year old girl is capable of handling herself and making the best decision when faced with an adult professional politician twice her age who is out to sway her sexually?

oh its sad how the pedophile word gets thrown around like this.

I saw a blog containing an interview with the girl about the incident. She claimed that she was 15. At least she wasn't prepubesent I guess, I think it was a disgusting act regardless. She also cliamed that his account of the night was dishonest and that it was sexual. Claiming that; 'he really loves to massage'.

I don't know. These guys make a pretty good argument. Teenage girl versus guy running for congress. It was probably her fault right?

bah i wanted to spam my opinion but this is already explosive discussion

>> ^marinara:
bah i wanted to spam my opinion but this is already explosive discussion


I hope nothing I said discouraged you from voicing your opinion. Maybe I'll agree, maybe I won't but I'm interested to hear what you have to say.

The woman is unscrupulous for extorting him. The man is a creep and possibility a criminal (and not just because he's a politician). The girl was a victim. I'm not saying she had no responsibility, but the onus of responsibility was on the adult.

No one knows that she "extorted" him. Extortion is a crime. Blackmail is a crime. No one has proven any of that. What we do know is that he was running for congress and tried to pay her off.

Nearly goes both ways. She could just as easily have been 15 as 13. In the states, however, both are illegal. <18 is illegal unless within a few years (17-19) and that's completely unofficial common sense, in rules lawyer talk a person 1 day under 18 with a person 1 day over would still be "pedophelia" by those standards, or statutory rape in any case, which is ridiculous.
A 28 year old with a 15 year old is a bit on the iffy side though. I, as a 26 year old, certainly wouldn't be with anyone that young - and I'm pretty depraved.

Boooo for this guy ! wonder what type of politics he will do now.

This is probably being overblown, I often invite the neighborhood teens to share a bath with me and if things seem "iffy" then I offer a stack of 20 dollar bills and everyone is happy. No big deal. Right? Now where's my hug?

Fair is fair though....there have been people who have been put on the sex offender list for less. He needs the same accountability just show there isn't a double standard.

There have been people killed by politicians for less too. But ok, the burden of proof is on her. Fortunately, now he admits to it. What's the problem? In what way does a 28 yr old man "hot tub" with a teenage girl and then writes a check for 150 grand? Simple extortion? She isn't guilty of it, no one has even dared to charge her with it.

OK, well, first of all..., I'm not defending him!
I agree that what he did was illegal. She was clearly a minor.
It doesn't matter what happened and passing the blame around in a case like this is mute. He was the adult and the responsibility for whatever transpired was his. He "IS" guilty for that offense.

And yes, as it is being reported, she came to him as an adult, claiming she would go public and wanting a payment to deal with "the Pain". She was not charged, in fact, he paid her and he did hope to move past the issue.

She has now come back a second time, $150,000 must not have been enough for her to get counseling. Hmmm....
It makes me wonder what her actual motives were. (again, yes she was the victim) but what does it take? Will she only be satisfied once he is destroyed? I don't know, I don't have those answers.

My only beef was really with the terminology. (Pedophile vs. Minor.)

I was only bringing up the extortion part as another fact in this story. It shows that this is not a one time incident, it is a continuing saga between the two of them.

Wait, you mean an old white man with wealth and power wasn't held accountable for his transgressions?

If only we lived in a country that believed it was self-evident that all men are created equal...

Oh, I get it. Big loophole there. It only says they're created equal, after that they're free to be successful, and therefore insulated from the pesky laws that bind us little people.

This whole story clearly shows that he did something stupid.
Should he pay for what he has done? It sounds like he already is and will continue to.

I'm a firm believer that this should have been solved behind closed doors and not as a public spectacle, the first time she came back. Yes, with professional counseling and law officials as necessary. I'm sure he was in panic mode at the time he made the payment (for whatever reasons). I also believe he should have gone into counseling as well - personally, with his own family. His family are also suffering from this and are also victims here. He has them to think about them as well. Crap like this always comes back to bite you in the ass (emotionally.)

But to what point does one go on suffering and making the other pay. No act of revenge, monetary or emotional will ever begin Cheryl's healing until she decides she wants to heal. The grieving process is a strong one and should be nurtured with professional counseling. Only once she decides to forgive and move-on can her healing begin. Until then, it will only continue to fester in her. I'm hoping she used some of the money towards personal counseling, though it doesn't sound like it. Which makes me question (without the facts and in my own opinion), whether she is in it for healing, personal vendetta or spotlight.

I hope both sides take the time to heal. I hope he takes a more emotional role in helping her heal, and I hope she can learn to move past. "Not forget, just forgive" because that's the only way the healing can begin. and in the end, that's what everyone needs here. Twenty-five years is long time to hold on to this.

Sagemind you are a kind and honest person and I'm not going to argue with you. I think he should be thrown out of office. I found it offensive that he received an ovation and hugs for this. That's my opinion on the matter. I'll leave it at that.

All I can say to this is, if he had not been a man of influence at this period in his life...he would probably be looking at an investigation and probably a court case. More than likely he would have other "questionable" acts that we know nothing about looked at in a different light, the lawyers would spin him into a monster and he would be in prison for 10 years or more. And since his crime was against a minor, he would probably be enjoying the company of other men in prison as we've seen in other videos sifted through here.

If she had brought this forward immediately, when he was 28 or 29...even 30. He would not have the influence he has now to protect himself from at least the stigma of it. And he probably wouldn't have went on to be what he is now. Yet it happens all the time to people just accused of crimes, guilty or not.

All I see a nice double standard, and suspect that the only reason he is getting applause is because everyone else there probably has some criminal secret they hope they bring up like he did and keep their careers/wealth/power. If they can make it happen for him, why not for themselves?

Even if the girl were a day after her 18th birthday and it was completely legal, there would be a stigma any normal person would have from even that bit of info being known with an age gap of 10 years. Her being 15, being that there's a chance that the girl hadn't hit puberty yet since it can happen at 16 or even later, it's not a question of him thinking he was in her age range. Him being 19 or 20 and thinking she's 17-18.

Sad truth is, if it does come to being him being busted....his punishment in the early 80s probably wouldn't have even been a fraction of what it would be now. He has the power of his office now, and he'll probably get cheered for it for awhile and the woman who he paid money to will probably get charged with something.

Can't overlook the fact that he's hidden it for nearly 30 years and is only coming forward because the girl he attempted to sex up is hitting him up for money he can't/won't pay. Same guy who if some schlub off the street admitted the same thing, he'd probably be crucifying him in any opinion the news asked for from him.

Gotta love those double standards.

It's not illegal, in general, for an adult to have a relationship with 'a minor'. The 'age of consent' in most states in the US is 16. The age of consent in Utah is 18, in general, though. If the older person is within ten years of the younger person's age, though, the age of consent can be 16 or 17

15's still off-limits everywhere in the US, though.

It's late and I'm tired, so I haven't read all the links.

And let me get this straight right now -I'm in no way defending this man-

However, everybody seems to have instantly taken one side of this. 28 year old man, 15 year old girl, hot tub.
That's ALL the information we've been given. Now, as to weather or not it was sexual, I don't truly know. But unless this man gave her a roofie and slept with her while she was out.. 15 is enough to make a decision of what you want to do. For all we know the hot tub was her idea. Now, suddenly she comes forth and needs money to get past what happened when she finds out he's running for congress.. That's a bit convienient.

When I was in highschool I knew a couple girls who "hung out" with guys 20+ when they were 14, and to this day, I think those 20+ year old guys are the scum of the bloody earth because they were so desperate to get sex they hit on girls that young. Thing is.. my friends wanted it too. Now, to this day none of them are messed up, or need counceling.. and they saw these guys for months.. not just a single night in a hot tub.

Now, no, not everybody is the same, maybe she looked back on it and regretted her decision.. but not a single word more about it over the years until he was about to run for congress.

I'll close by saying again -I do not agree with what he did- I'm heartily against that kind of thing. However, people are making accusations on word of mouth and baseless information. He was in a hot tub with her? yes. they had their clothes off? yes. Do we know exactly what happened in the hot tub? no. Do we know whose idea it was to get in the tub like that in the first place? no.

The man is a sleeze for getting in the tub with a girl that young, yes, but don't hate him on behalf of the girl, we don't know what role she played in any of this.

Of course, he willing got into the tub...naked....with what had to have been an obviously much younger girl whether he knew her exact age or not ( I suspect he did since he didn't try to deny it in his speech).

Maybe she tried to set him up, maybe she liked him.....maybe she's the devil walking the earth. Unless she held him at gun point or something similar, the guy got into a hot tub while naked with an underage girl who was also naked.

I mean I could see he's in a hot tub minding his own business took his trunks off, sitting in his backyard and not expecting anyone. Girl gets dared to strip down and jump in with him.... then he wouldn't really be guilty of anything in my mind if he got out, got covered and called the cops or her parents. But he would have claimed such a thing in his speech. So he willing did what was done, and now the only thing unclear were his objectives in doing so and I doubt they were anything innocent because that wouldn't have involved him or her being naked.

Dude got in with some intentions and maybe he didn't get his wishes fulfilled, but he had something in mind......and maybe she was willing even wanted it. But if he had "stopped" it, he would have said so in his speech because it would have only made him sound less deviant if he realized what he was doing was wrong. So either they got interrupted or the girl cut it short.


It's not even that I hate him on behalf of the girl. I hate that if he weren't a man of influence/wealth/power he would have been busted a long time ago, and if he hadn't been...if he were to admit it publicly like this years later. A politician much like the man in this video would have been calling for the guy's head on a plate, the dude would be locked up for the year or so it took to find all the dirt to make him look like a real creep. They'd be investigating his computers, video collections, rental histories, maybe even library book check outs...used it all as evidence that he's twisted.

Equal application of the law, if they would apply it to this guy like they would an average joe, the law might even be fixed by other whacko politicians who don't want to be burnt at the stake like their colleague.

I think he misspoke. He said "hottubbing with a girl nearly half my age" but meant "nearly half as young as I". If he meant under half his age, he would have said "less than half". The phrase he was probably looking for is "barely half my age" meaning just over half. Looking into the story, she was in fact 15.

I don't know much about the story, and I'm not defending his actions, but I feel this is important information no one has contributed (and info that has been contradicted in some comments).

The age of consent is defined on a state by state basis in the US. It ranges from 16-18, with the mode (most commonly occurring number) being 16. The breakdown (according to Wikipedia) is:

16 years old in 31 states + the District of Columbia
17 years old in 7 states
18 years old in 12 states

According to 4parents.gov, there are 32 states @16 years old (+DC). Nebraska is the discrepancy (list found here).

If you want to defend him, 15 is not a far cry from 16, which is overwhelmingly the age of consent by state (over 60% of states). If you want to admonish him, the age in the US is never below 16 and is 18 in Utah.

EDIT: Apparently I wandered off and finished writing this a long time after I started it. DirePickle did bring this up, all the while having an awesome handle.>> ^burdturgler:
"I was 28 yrs old" ... "with a young woman nearly half my age".
Now, I'm no mathematician but I'm pretty sure that "nearly half" of 28 is somewhere beneath 14. Maybe it's 10. I don't know. But the most it could be is 13. So a 28 yr old man and a 13 yr old girl are having a supposedly "non-sexual" experience, naked, in a hot tub. Yet, somehow, he is the victim. He decides to run for congress and his ugly secret comes back to haunt him, so he tries to pay off the woman. "She agreed to keep this 25 yr old secret confidential." And apparently, since he wrote the check, that seemed like money well spent to him. Now the payment is a "mistake" because his pedophilia is being exposed anyway. So, having no other choice, he comes out and admits it, and receives applause and hugs all around.

@Porksandwich

and upon what grounds do you base your accusation?

There's a saying, "Innocent until proven guilty."

We know he got in the tub, that he's guilty of.
Everything else, we have little to no information about. You can't just fill in the blanks with your own ideas, if you could that would be the most corrupt system of law imaginable. Yes, he's an ass for being in the tub with her, we've established that.

Questions we have no idea about:
Who was in the tub first?
Were they talking before getting into the tub?
Did they both agree to get in at the same time?
Were they alone, or at some party?
Had they been alone, how'd he get her there in the first place?
If they were at a party, who let a 15 year old girl in?
If they were at a party, what were her intentions upon showing up?
Did they start off naked in the tub?
If yes OR no, whose idea was it to be naked?
Who got out of the tub first?

Again, you're saying things like "So either they got interrupted or the girl cut it short" but you don't know that. For all we know his concience got the better of him and he got out first.

I think this man is a total ass for doing anything with the girl in the first place.. but for all we know, the entire thing could have been her doing, and I don't think everybody should be taking sides. Both parties could be to blame.

[edit] and one last thing, because you edited your original comment and added two paragraphs as I was typing mine. You say that if he hadn't attained his wealth and power, that he wouldn't be able to 'Get away' with what's going on, so to speak. You seem to be forgetting the part about her only approaching him for money when he started to run for congress. The only time she ever wanted to see him again for ANYTHING was when she would be able to get something out of it.

So, on the flip side, if he had never run for congress, she may never even have come forth, and the situation would still but long forgotten. Does that make it right? No, but he would still have 'Got away' with it, even if he wasn't a congressman.

In this story I referenced earlier, the girl claimed that she was in love with him at the time. obviously she was still way too young. It does make me think that whatever happened was consensual, and the girl had a fun night with a guy she was enamored with. On top of that she got paid a bunch of money. Guys still a creep, and he should be booted from any public office. Just don't think that she was a victim in anyway....Been searching for the interview with the woman so I can post a link. Google is now saturated with the story and not motivated enough to sift through all the crap to find it. maybe later. I did find that Maher told a Utah nespaper about the incident before Garn's 2002 primary election and the paper decided not to publish the story. Cover up?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700016111/Deseret-News-takes-own-lumps-on-story-of-Kevin-Garn-Cheryl-Maher.html

Here's a completly unrelated and possibly insensitive story that I happened to find during my search for my refrence:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/dorset/8563377.stm

@highdileeho

Thank you, that's exactly what I was trying to make a point about.

@Shepppard

Well he's already admitted to being naked in the presence of an underage person. So he's guilty of at least corruption of a minor which according to a quick google search shows it can range from activities such as discussions involving sex, showing them pornography or explicit images, teaching them destructive behavior, etc. So remaining in a hot tub, nude with someone underage I think would fall into the realm of corruption of a minor.

And since in recent years, the laws for child pornography have moved to include cartoons depicting underage characters, sexting related pictures/text, and various other new and confusing ways to interpret and punish people for them. I would say again that simply being nude in front of a minor, or being in the presence of a minor who is nude unless you're a medical doctor or police official conducting a search...you'd be guilty of a crime that may not be exactly child pornography but it would be more severe than corruption of a minor.

So......I think he admitted to at least corruption of a minor and possibly something more severe that would be more inline with punishments for child pornography charges. Is there a statute of limitations on these things? No idea, but I suspect not since they potentially have long standing psychological ramifications on the minor whether they were willing or not. If there was any sort of sexual contact, statutory rape would be in play and it doesn't even consider "willingness" of the minor to be convicted of it.


Let's assume that he knew this girl was underage because it would be silly of him to make a prepared speech admitting guilt and not stressing that at the time he had no idea of her age. Since that simple point would make him a lot less culpable, especially if she were in a situation where someone underage shouldn't have been able to gain access to. But he didn't, and it was a prepared speech...so he put thought into it to spin it in a light most flattering to himself.


Who was in the tub first?

Does it matter if he stayed and didn't attempt to cover up or leave?

Were they talking before getting into the tub?

Subject matter of this talk would only make his case worse, and wouldn't change it if it were innocent.

Did they both agree to in at the same time?

Really it doesn't matter, he wouldn't be confessing to it if it were innocent...and he wouldn't have paid her if it were innocent.

Were they alone, or at some party?

If alone, it's he said she said. But any normal guy in this situation would have a dim view taken on him being nude in front of a 15 year old girl who was also nude...party or alone. If in a party situation, probably more criminal charges to dole out.

Had they been alone, how'd he get her there in the first place?

Still doesn't change the wrongness of his acts, or what he has already admitted to. It would only potentially weaken his case in my opinion, I can't think of anything where this would make his case stronger given what he already admitted to.

If they were at a party, who let a 15 year old girl in?

This goes to the assumption that he would have claimed he didn't know her age when he admitted to the crime, because otherwise he's implying he knew at the time of the act. If he hadn't known, he would have put it into his speech since it was prepared before hand.....silly to do otherwise. And he wouldn't have paid blackmail money if he was tricked into the initial act that kicked it all off.

If they were at a party, what were her intentions upon showing up?

It doesn't really matter in the case of a minor, maybe her intentions were to get laid by the oldest guy at the party. If she succeeded it'd still be statutory rape since willingness does not let them off the hook. It might help his case, but it wouldn't alleviate his guilt much if her were a normal joe.

Did they start off naked in the tub?

I think that it's been hidden for 30 years, had one payment already paid.....and now him coming forward....I'd say they were naked long enough for this not to matter. If it were innocent, the hush money never would have been paid. Since if he had 150k to give away freely, he could have crushed her in court.



I think if he had done anything that was morally responsible that night, he would have included it in his prepared speech. I say he knew her age. It wasn't an innocent non-sexual situation, otherwise the hush money wouldn't have been paid. The only reason he made the speech was to get out in front of it and try to spin it more positively for himself before she got the media coverage to burn him.

Anyway I looked up an article from the girl involved in the thing, and she says a few things that confirm my suspicions..but I didn't read it until this point and not going to go back and restate what I've written. I think the lack of him not addressing certain things is his way of avoiding the damning parts, because if it were good for his case.......he would have said it.


Either way, after his speech they got ahold of her. Here's a link:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700016074/Cheryl-Maher-says-Kevin-Garn-lied-about-hot-tub-contact.html

A few choice comments:

Utah House Majority Leader Kevin Garn is lying about having no physical contact with her when they went hot-tubbing in the nude when she was 15 years old.

She also says they had a long-term relationship at that time and contends that he had affairs with others.

"Then there was a day when he took me to Salt Lake, and he stopped and got alcohol, and we ended up at this hot-tub place on State Street. I was scared. I said, 'I don't have a suit.' He said, 'You don't need one,' " Maher wrote.

Forgive me if somebody has already made this point, but I couldn't wade through all the comments implying this man was sick for his attraction to an underage girl.

Let us speak for a moment about nature. In the wild, female mammals will often mate and bear children the very first season they are able to do so. The fact that they have grown old enough to bear children is good enough for nature. If an 8 year old male animal was to mate with a 2 year old female, we would not call that male sick, depraved, and in need of treatment. We consider it natural, even though the male in this case is four times the female's age.

Human beings are animals. Granted, society has established extra terms of proper behavior that we have superimposed upon our animal nature, but the animal is there regardless. People tend to forget this. In regards to this discussion, it is perfectly natural for a male human to begin finding a female human attractive sexually when she begins to show secondary sexual characteristics. These include a widening of the hips, and enlargement of the breasts. The starts normally between age 8 and 13, usually around 10.

We can assume that this young woman had for five years been developing the traits that are specifically designed by evolution to arouse males' sexual interest.

Historically speaking, most of human history has seen young women married and starting families by their mid teens, the exact same age as the woman in this story. It is only for the past few decades that anybody has started seeing this practice as unconscionable or depraved. Remember the 1957 "scandal" when Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old third cousin. That was a scandal in the cities, but still fairly common in the country where the two were raised. If that had happened a few decades earlier, it wouldn't even have been a scandal in the cities.

Now our standards are different. For better or worse, we have decided that girls should have a few more years to mature before getting married. Of course everybody knows they are still having sex for the first time around 14-16 on average; but now they are not married, they are experimenting. And it is only appropriate, for some reason, for them to experiment with other kids near their own age.

I would heartily agree that Representative Garn may have broken laws here, and may be prosecuted for that without objection. However, I object to anyone who would imply that he needs psychological treatment, or that we can assume he has had other encounters with underage women. I would submit that any healthy male would be attracted to a pretty 15 year old girl, and that a little alcohol and some persuasion by the girl would easily get any man into this situation. And if you are going to use the word pedophile to describe a man who might be aroused by any female under the legal age of consent, then every heterosexual male on the planet is a pedophile.

But that is simply not the case. Pedophilia is defined as the persistent intense attraction to pre-pubescent children, or early pubescent children. And while we as a society have decided over the last hundred years or so to give women a few more years to mature before being "legal", nature takes a little longer to adapt.

Sorry for the length of this comment, but this is a pet peeve. Even though I would never touch a woman under 18 for a variety of legal and moral reasons, I find no purpose to denying the fact that some women under 18 are hella sexy. And dress and makeup styles are becoming more and more enticing at younger ages. It actually scares me a bit that one day I might theoretically be seduced by an underage girl and have my life ruined. A couple years ago I met a 16 year old girl who looked 22, and that was a shock. Men have been put on the sexual predator list for lesser offenses, and that pisses me off.

I'm not witch hunting him, but ASIDE FROM the extortion later on, there's the original crime where this guy willingly got into a hot tub with a minor. Seems like he knew she was a minor.

That's not cool.

If you ask me, this touches perfectly on a knife edge that i've always thought about when i think of "paedophilia".

I once watched a program where louis theroux visited a centre for paedophiles. They stayed inside this purgatorial estate until they were "re-habilitated" and there was no time limit on their incarceration. The only people who had EVER been released (i think? hazy memory) were people who had voluntarily gone through chemical castration.

I was in a state of pure shock after watching the video. My utter disgust and contempt for their dispicable act was met with my utter vexation that these people would be held indefinitely until some people who claimed themselves experts decided that they were "cured". And usually only when they'd metaphorically chopped their gonads off.

I didn't know what to think. Did i feel sorry for these people who now had no presence in the world, who had no rights and literally a purgatorial non-existance? Or did i feel glad that they'd been taken out of the world for something that is unthinkable to any normal person?

And to be honest, i still don't know. But i think this discussion is fuelled by that uncertainty. Some people may also not know what they feel. Some people think "This guy shouldn't have his life ruined by getting into a hot tub with a minor and not doing anything," some people think "Holy shit this guy knowingly got into a hot tub with a minor."

Do you think if chris hansen got a guy to sit in a hot tub with a 15 year old girl and then the guy said "but i wasn't going to do anything!" that we'd believe him? No, of course we wouldn't.

So what if chris hansen had popped up when this guy had been getting into the hot tub, and said "hi, i'm chris hansen from dateline nbc?" His life would have been terribly terribly different.

So exactly how many future lawmakers and "citizens of good standing and public service" has chris hansen put behind bars for non-crimes similar to this man? Should the crowd in this video be applauding the people we've seen on "to catch a predator"...?

15 is jailbait at worst. sure it's illegal, but she's starting to look like a woman.

It's not pedo by far, but definitely taking advantage of an easily manipulated minor.

>> ^rgroom1:
15 is jailbait at worst. sure it's illegal, but she's starting to look like a woman.
It's not pedo by far, but definitely taking advantage of an easily manipulated minor.


Then he should be in jail, not getting a round of applause from his fellow lawmakers.

So, does anybody wanna come in the sift hut tub...? I mean "lounge".

The argument is, we would've all been locked up for it, how come he is being praised?>> ^rgroom1:
15 is jailbait at worst. sure it's illegal, but she's starting to look like a woman.
It's not pedo by far, but definitely taking advantage of an easily manipulated minor.

He is being praised by a group of politicians who live on the knife edge. Things like this never come back to haunt normal people. Imagine if every tiny bit of your life was scrutinized, and incidents like this could end your career even if untrue! Everybody who was there when he spoke knew he would be resigning within days. They were applauding his decision to go out with a little dignity.

Again, he's not being accused of having sex with a kindergartner a year or two ago. She was only a couple years underage, it was not sex, and it was 25 years ago! Sure, what he did was wrong, but how many of us can say we have nothing in our pasts that we are not proud of? You've never done anything that you looked back on and thought, "Oh, crap, I shouldn't have done that, but I just wasn't thinking straight."

Of course he needs to pay the price for mistakes he made. That's how life works. But this holier-than-thou attitude some of you people have makes me sick. I wouldn't even even be defending him if it wasn't for some of the self-righteous bullshit I see in this thread.