LOL Your not allowed to Criticize stuff that the English criticize.


Its so funny how English have been like NHS is shit its shit ITS SHIT then USA says it shit and the same people in england are like HOW DARE They lol

Fact is NHS could be allot better but its already infinatly better than what's going in the USA. Its also a fact that English people are so pesamistic about national stuff its ridiculous.

We often criticise the execution, but rarely the underlying principle. When someone complains about the weather it doesn't mean they want to live on a planet without an atmosphere.

I think she'll find it's called "dupeoffed"

It would be really sad if America could no longer support the swollen parasitic insurance industry!

Fact is NHS could be allot better but its already infinatly better than what's going in the USA

Analysis: Assertion that lacks substantive, factual evidenciary support. Conclusion: Opinion. Status: Discarded.

I think it's sad we rely on insurance so heavily. There's nothing wrong with insurance to be used as a means to "insure" you in case something catastrophic happens, but we look at insurance nowadays as a health plan where we require routine services to be covered.

Imagine if your auto insurance paid for oil changes every three months.

>> ^blankfist:
Imagine if your auto insurance paid for oil changes every three months.

I'd really want that, if oil changes cost hundreds of dollars, and my engine seizing up meant I would die.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
Analysis: Assertion that lacks substantive, factual evidenciary support. Conclusion: Opinion. Status: Discarded.


Analysis: This guy won't crack a book or do any research. Conclusion: Full of crap. Status: ignored, as usual.

How can we be spending so much more money with worse results than the UK and still justify using them as a whipping boy in this debate? Here are some more facts for you to ignore. http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

>> ^NetRunner:


Well if auto insurance covered oil changes and all kinds of other preventative maintenance services, then you would see oil changes costing hundreds of dollars.

Jiffy Lube wouldn't post prices, but instead when they come to you asking if you want to "flush your radiator and replace your timing belt" you wouldn't ask "How much? And is it necessary?" You'd just say "sure" and the auto insurance company would front the bill.

That's what drives up costs.

It's easy to point fingers at the big, evil corporate insurance companies. No one ever criticizes the little guy for stacking the system so he can have a free lunch.

>> ^blankfist:
No one ever criticizes the little guy for stacking the system so he can have a free lunch.


Hey, he's just following the precepts of the free market.

He's just being selfish, and selfishness is good, right?

This piece of shit country will never change.

People can't afford preventative medicine, that's why so many people don't go and see a doctor until it's too late.

Most bankruptcies are due to medical events, and most of those people were insured. Yeah, great fucking country. The free market wins again.

But let's bitch and moan about preventative care. Ron Paul would be proud.

Eat the rich.

No other advanced modern democracy has such an extent of disinformation and encouragement of ignorance in a debate of such importance. Healthcare is a perfect case study of the decline of the American era.

>> ^rougy:
>> ^blankfist:
No one ever criticizes the little guy for stacking the system so he can have a free lunch.

Hey, he's just following the precepts of the free market.
He's just being selfish, and selfishness is good, right?
This piece of shit country will never change.
People can't afford preventative medicine, that's why so many people don't go and see a doctor until it's too late.
Most bankruptcies are due to medical events, and most of those people were insured. Yeah, great fucking country. The free market wins again.
But let's bitch and moan about preventative care. Ron Paul would be proud.
Eat the rich.


Epic fucking fail, rougy. People have been trying to teach you this point countless times on this website. Libertarians draw a major distinction between wanting to do something with what you own, and wanting to do something with what someone else owns against their will. That's why a constitution and courts to enforce it is necessary, and ours ultimately failed. Everybody knows that true democracy is just people trying to vote themselves other people's shit, even shit that doesn't even exist yet. One generation could borrow from Chinese savers at interest well in excess of productive capacity and leave future generations holding the interest burden. That is THEFT. And unless you can somehow vendor finance trillion dollar deficits in perpetuity at 1% interest rates, we are going to have to raise interest rates to 30% or devalue the living shit out of the dollar and inflate the debt away.

You should be kissing Ron Paul's ass. Here's a fucking guy who has wasted 30 years trying to keep SPENDING in this dipshit country constrained to what it could PRODUCE by tying the dollar to something which always takes labor and material to produce. Instead, we now have a currency whose scarcity can be diminished at will by its issuer and is given a government-mandated monopoly. Instead, we went from the richest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation because we allowed the government to sell us the idea that it needs no discipline. If it wasn't for brainwashed foreigners too scared to stop giving us money to buy their products, and a dickless American populace willing to go along with anything to keep the party going, we wouldn't have deferred the inevitable collapse again last year.

>> ^rougy:
Hey, he's just following the precepts of the free market.

The "free market" is a mutually beneficial private agreement between two parties without coercion. It's not intrinsically a selfish concept, but it is free of strong-arm tactics and intimidation. I think you meant "corporatism".

All this talk about free enterprise, capitalism etc is just great but misses the point. Your politicians (in this case read republicans) are lying to you. As a Canadian I don't really care what type of health system you have but it's really irritating to turn on CNN and see people like Virginia Foxx standing in Congress and telling gross blatant f**king lies about other countries health care systems in an attempt to scare (the favourite tactic of the right wing everywhere) and nobody other than John Stewart calls them on it. Our system is far from perfect, and we criticize it with an aim to get improvements not to trash it.

And by the way for those Americans who aren't aware of it the US is a socialist country, maybe less socialist than most others, but socialist nonetheless.

>> ^westy:
LOL Your not allowed to Criticize stuff that the English criticize.

Its so funny how English have been like NHS is shit its shit ITS SHIT then USA says it shit and the same people in england are like HOW DARE They lol
Fact is NHS could be allot better but its already infinatly better than what's going in the USA. Its also a fact that English people are so pesamistic about national stuff its ridiculous.


I think you pretty much answered your own criticism there, or whatever. NHS isnt a perfect system, of course, nor does any country possess a perfect healthcare system, so there will always be room for complaints, but just because you criticize a system, or parts of a system, doesnt mean people should use you in propaganda for a completely different system that's even more broken. If you worked at Walmart or McDonalds and complain how they cynically push your wages down in the name of profit, you probably wouldnt be happy to be used in communist propaganda movies about how capitalism is the devil. I would bet that the overwhelming majority of UK complaints about the NHS is from people who would never dream of privatizing their healthcare.

People also seem to miss that some British also have separate private health insurance.

The health insurance business doesn't need to vanish, it just becomes less important while the whole population still has access to affordable healthcare.

nobody other than John Stewart calls them on it

If that's where you get your information then you'll never want for moonshine. Stewart's a comedian - nothing more. If you want to go ahead and stake out the position that you get your talking points from a comedy show then go ahead. Just don't act all surprised when you join a serious discussion and people point at you and laugh.

As far as 'lying' about things - that's what politicians do. I don't like it, but it happens. But I note with dry, distant amusement that you confine your 'lying' accusation only to Republicans. Fact of the matter is, that the bulk of the actual lies in this discussion are coming from the liberal Democrat side of the aisle. "If you like your plan, you can keep it" indeed. Even the most cursory reading of the house bill clearly shows that is deceptive. The bill would kneecap private plans down to under 10% of the market within 5 years, and the Democrats know it.

facts to ignore

The NCHC is a fronted neolib pro-government group. It's easy to ignore crap that sluices out that particular trough. Follow the money. NCHC is run by the AARP, the AFL/CIO (unions), GE, and a bunch of other groups that want a public health care option for political reasons. This bunch of clowns doesn't care what stillborn plan flops out of the government's womb as long as it has the word 'reform' stuck on it.

>> ^gorillaman:
We often criticise the execution, but rarely the underlying principle. When someone complains about the weather it doesn't mean they want to live on a planet without an atmosphere.


Can we triple upvote that please? Just triple the votes, because it's the most epic piece of pwnage in such a short comment that we've ever seen.

EXCELLENT work gorilla.

>> ^blankfist:
>> ^NetRunner:

Well if auto insurance covered oil changes and all kinds of other preventative maintenance services, then you would see oil changes costing hundreds of dollars.
Jiffy Lube wouldn't post prices, but instead when they come to you asking if you want to "flush your radiator and replace your timing belt" you wouldn't ask "How much? And is it necessary?" You'd just say "sure" and the auto insurance company would front the bill.
That's what drives up costs.


Mark this day on your calendar. You're 100% correct.

Problem is, with a car repair, I'm never in a hurry. If the mechanic recommends something that's too expensive, I can comparison shop. If no one can fix the problem at a price I can afford, I'll have to take the bus.

If on the other hand, some dickhead starts spraying gunfire at a health care town hall, and I get hit with a bullet, I'm not going to shop around. Chances are, I'll tell the doctor "do whatever you have to, just save me!" My insurance company may later decide that the bullet-wound was a preexisting condition, or more likely that they won't cover me because I didn't call my GP before calling 911. The doctor won't worry about costs, he'll save me anyways, but the bill will likely bankrupt me.

So where does that leave us?

You say I need more opportunity to comparison shop for bullet-wound repair, and that if I can't afford the service, I should just go without it and die.

I'm saying that stopping my insurance company from playing games is as important as controlling costs. So first, let's stop the insurance company from wiggling out on me.

Second, let's stop people from waiting until they're sick to start paying for insurance, since the companies now must cover people who're paid up on premiums, even if they're sick.

Third, let's realize that there are lots of people who will have trouble paying premiums, so let's set up a subsidy to help them out.

Fourth, let's make sure people are taking advantage of preventive care, since it's much cheaper to treat someone for high blood pressure than it is to treat them for a heart attack.

Fifth, let's set up programs for doing comparative effectiveness research, so we can get some objective science on what we're paying for, to make sure that people know if certain types of treatments are a good value.

Sixth, let's set up a standard format for electronically exchanging medical records and test results so specialists aren't re-doing tests that have already been performed by ER or GP physicians.

Seventh, let's set up a national marketplace for individual insurance, and ensure that customers are given clear, standardized information for comparing between the insurance offerings.

Eighth, let's set up a public, non-profit insurance plan to provide a basic level of care, and to help drive down the cost of the private offerings.

There's more detail in the full plan, but that's a lot of the big elements of the plan.

WP - Jon Stewart is a comedian?????? OMG WTF why didn't somebody tell me?? Of course he's a f**king comedian. Only a moron wouldn't know that. And only a moron would jump to the conclusion that a casual pop culture reference is an admission of that being one's only media source. After reading a number of your comments and the responses of others I have to conclude that you are probably an expert on joining serious discussions and having people point at you and laugh.

Even the most cursory reading of the house bill clearly shows that is deceptive. The bill would kneecap private plans down to under 10% of the market within 5 years, and the Democrats know it.

Analysis: Assertion that lacks substantive, factual evidenciary support. Conclusion: Opinion. Status: Discarded.

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