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As much as I support Bradley Manning I have to say this. Shut the Fuck Up Celebrities!

Being a soldier is a bloody hard job.

On one hand, you are trained to follow orders without question and yes, sometimes you are asked to perform morally questionable actions for the "greater good". (One might argue that the whole profession of soldiery is morally questionable acts for the greater good)

That said, it has been well established that "I was only following orders" is not an excuse.

So what do you do when you see something that you cannot justify? Are you a disobedient traitor or a willing accomplice to criminal acts?

And just in case, there's any doubt, I believe he did the right thing.

Manning did the absolute wrong thing. If he didn't believe in what he was doing, he should have gotten the fuck out.

So...the gov't are terrorists, terrorists are freedom-fighters. These people are so confused I'm surprised they can get out of bed in the morning.

I am bradley manning.....reminiscent of Spartacus.

You know what happened to that guy?

Yeah....maybe you guys should reconsider all callin yourselves Bradley Manning

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Why? Because of their role model status for many people? So the government, biased media and other corrupt people can indoctrinate people by spewing out bullshit for decades, effectively producing blind drones, but celebrities are not allowed to act as a (albeit very weak) counterweight?

I think it's pathetic that they have a role model status for anyone. I didn't say that the government and media should be able to do what they want, why the fuck would you think if the celebrities don't stand up to them we're doomed?

The people should and are standing up to them and their bullshit, celebrities we don't need them and their distractions.

If you're in the army and they are killing people, children just because they're on the streets do you just shut up and leave? Not only can you not just leave you're forced to be there, but if you just leave and do nothing, nothing changes.

You witness horrific crimes it's your moral responsibility to stand up and do something about it. Manning did that, I don't see how that is wrong.

Also most governments terrorize and I know you'll never accept this but the largest terrorist operations ever have come right out of Washington.

@lantern53

i think the only thing manning did that could be considered "wrong" is the pure data dump he performed.

unlike snowden,who sifted and vetted the information and then forwarded the information to a journalist (glenn greenwald at the gaurdian),manning just dumped massive amounts of information to wikileaks.

but manning is also paying a high price and he is willing to pay that price.
so while i may disagree with his methodology i admire his courage to face the full force of the united states federal government.

its interesting that you find people who criticize the federal governments practices as being confused.
let us look at the definition of terrorism shall we?

from the FBI:“the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).

now the key word here is "unlawful".
which can be translated as being "when THEY perform acts of violence against a population it is "terrorism" but when WE perform acts of violence against a population it is "counter-terrorism" because WE made it lawful".

the arguments is about distinctions and it is flimsy when you question the validity coming from a government which performs drone strikes on a daily basis on brown people.

when a person straps a bomb to their chest and walks into a cafe and detonates themselves in a crowd they are a terrorist.
when the US government sends drone strikes and bombing runs to a village in yemen they are terrorists.

there is no distinction.
just because the government proclaims otherwise or your desire for the US to be standing on moral ground are irrelevant.

they are,by definition,both terrorists.

and when you consider the guidelines put forth by the nuremberg trials after WW2,in which it was the UNITED STATES government which implemented the majority of those guidelines both bush and obama and consequent participatory members of those administrations should be (and ARE in the international court of law) war criminals.

but the united states government conveniently ignores just about everything outside their own interest.even if that interest after the second world war was to diminish the practices our very own government engages in on a global scale every day.

it is the height of hypocrisy and reveals a moral bankruptcy that is staggering.
when they do it =terrorism
when we do it=counter-terrorism

i call bullshit.

Those calling him, and Snowden for that matter, a traitor are holding onto the old vestiges of "American Exceptionalism." These are the truly scary people in our world, not the whistleblowers.

What shatterdrose said.
All of it.

Role model status is irrelevant here. They are using their fame to spread a message. If it gets a few celebrity watching idiots to sit up and think about this issue (even if it's for the wrong reasons, "ooh such and such told me to care about this"), that's still a positive outcome.

As much as the cult of the vapid celebrity offends me, I don't have a problem with this. At least most of the people I recognise in this video have actually done things (Stone, Morello, etc)

who is john galt?

I just can't stand hearing it so I'll tell them to shut the fuck up. You of course make an obvious point, that the more people that talk about this or even use their fame to bring attention to it is a good thing.

I just don't like these fucking morons doing it.

No one important that's for damn sure. I would actually LOVE it if the CEOs and owners of really huge companies and corporations fucked off to live in their own little enclave.

We've got very smart people who can take their place, such as the workers that can run their own factories. There is no such thing as these genius CEOs that understand things better than the rest of us. There is definitely no such fucking thing as a Magic Metal that saves all of society!

Manning is no hero.
No matter what you think of the government its just your opinion.
Make all the excuses you want.
He took an oath. He betrayed the oath.
If he did not like what the government was going doing. This was not the way to show it. He gave information to a a group of people that used it to lie and put people at risk for nothing.
I Am NOT Bradley Manning

I take it you are not familiar with the Oath of Office for the US government?

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."

So when the government breaks it's oath, breaks faith to the people and demands of it's soldiers, those men and women who are ready to pay the ultimate price, that they commit atrocious crimes, what worth is there honouring your oath to them?

More importantly, Nuremberg proved that "just following orders" ie. adhering to your oath as a soldier, was not a defense. In the recent debacle in the Australian Defense Force, the chief of armies has explicitly said that people who received the illicit emails and deleted them rather than reporting would also be held responsible because they didn't blow the whistle...

You can waffle on about honour and adhering to ones oath, but the truth is you're advocating the path of the coward. Stay quiet, don't speak out, be a good little lap dog to the establishment. Allow evil to happen because you don't have the cojones to do anything about it. Take cold comfort in the fact that you "honoured" your oath.

What secret did he give away that was damning to the US government? Oh thats right Nothing Other than information that gave away procedures on how informants were handled and oh! some of their names. But don't let that get in the way of your oh so holy rambling of utter bullshit. You go on about how the government broke its oath so thats your excuse for someone breaking theirs. Good to know that you'll use any excuse not to keep one. I find it takes far more courage to keep an oath when everyone else is tossing theirs aside.

So keeping a promise is more important than preventing war crimes; preventing the corruption of a government; upholding the freedom and morality of an entire civilisation; habeus corpus; magna carta (which is now been successfully rendered obselete in the US and many other countries); the bill of rights; and the US constitution?

More important than preventing the deaths of thousands of innocent people; allowing you to avoid an ignorant election of despots; preventing one government from unjustly interfering with the political process of another; more important than allowing a man to speak the truth?

And so I'm going to push this button; even when I have learned that it will destroy the Earth and everything on it, for I made a promise.

What war crimes? Name them. What secrets did he reveal that show corruption in the government? Really? Nothing? Wait, So no war crimes, No corruption. So what did he do that makes him a hero? He broke his oath.... right....

@skinnydaddy1
the ignorance of your commentary is staggering.
it reveals a total lack of understanding in regards to:history,the fourth estate and the importance of whistleblowers.

you state that he betrayed an oath.
but what was that oath in regards to?
the government? or the citizens and constitution of the united states?

manning has stated quite clearly he felt the american people needed to know what was being perpetrated in their names.

he honored his oath.

as for HOW he released that information i disagree with as well.he should not have just dumped massive amounts of data,unlike snowden who vetted the information,manning just dumped it.

he gave this information to wikileaks.
a notorious and well-known site for whistleblowers to retain anonymity.
your accusation that this site "lies" is unfounded and has no basis in truth.

maybe in your mind wikileaks lies but that is speculation and conjecture.better known as "wishful thinking".

which brings me to my next point in regards to your willfully ignorant commentary.
you state:
"He gave information to a a group of people that used it to lie and put people at risk for nothing."

and yet in your ad hominem swipe at @Asmo you state:
"What secret did he give away that was damning to the US government? Oh thats right Nothing Other than information that gave away procedures on how informants were handled and oh! some of their names."

well?
which one is it?
were people put at risk or werent they?

you make an argument in one comment where manning is a traitor and had put people lives at risk and in your very NEXT commentary you state that nothing of value was revealed.

you literally negated your first position by YOUR OWN COMMENTARY.

you postulated the our opinion of our government is irrelevant.
i totally agree.
our opinion of our government is irrelevant in these matters.

the fourth estate was put in place to be the watchdog of the powerful.
it is VITAL to this estate that they be able to glean information on the inner workings of governmental processes.for this to work whistleblowers who uncover government malfeasance be allowed to reveal the glitches in the system.

a government by the people for the people should be informed on the goings on of a government enacting policies in THEIR name.

manning saw a glitch in the system and revealed some of the working of our government and by YOUR OWN COMMENTARY,did not reveal anything of significant value.

manning stood up to the most powerful institution on the planet and has suffered three years in prison (wheres the speedy trial?).has been sleep deprived,forced nudity and been subjected to loud music for hours on end (all forms of torture).

he has suffered all this because he felt the american people had the right to know.

manning has shown a courage and a set of balls that has become painfully obvious you do not own.

manning is not only a hero but has a brass set.

Wow so much and nothing answered. Not one thing you said answered a single question. Nice attempt at redirect. Lets try again.

What Corruption did he show?

What war crime did he show?

What did he do that made him your hero?

For there to be whistleblower should there not be something wrong that he has knowledge of?

He stated he did not like what was being done in the United States citizens names. What exactly? And what gave him the right to claim anything in my name? anyone's name?

You and the rest of your little group keep saying the same thing and yet never manager to answer a single question. What makes him a hero?

He has shown no war crimes, No corruption. Nothing.

Your not worshiping him as a hero your worshiping the IDEA of him.

So can someone answer the questions with out the dogma?

@skinnydaddy1
seriously dude?

redirect? are you even aware of the meaning of that term?
i have been very clear on my position.
i was just addressing your apparent cognitive dissonance which you just solidified in your last comment.

so i gather you are going to stick with your SECOND position and have decided to abandon your FIRST position.

ok..fine.
this is starting to bore me anyways.

1.what war crimes did he show?
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/16731-bradley-mannings-legal-duty-to-expose-war-crimes

http://pakistan.shafaqna.com/shafaq/item/10102-bradley-manning-exposed-us-%E2%80%98war-crimes%E2%80%99.html

2.what corruption did he show?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/22/iraq-war-logs-military-leaks

3.what did he do that made him your hero?
already answered.multiple times.

4.For there to be whistleblower should there not be something wrong that he has knowledge of?
see:links above

5.He stated he did not like what was being done in the United States citizens names. What exactly? And what gave him the right to claim anything in my name? anyone's name?

again,see:links above.
your consequent follow up questions deal with a subjective morality.the answer will be different for everyone and manning has already explained quite clearly his reasons.

i presume those reasons are not adequate for you and you would have chosen a different path and hold manning in contempt.
it appears you put your oath above all else.
even at the detriment of others.

on this we fundamentally disagree.

6.You and the rest of your little group keep saying the same thing and yet never manager to answer a single question. What makes him a hero?

me and my little group like to "read".

i suggest you do the same.

i am now done with this.i can already see where this is going.your desire to be "right" will over-power your ability to listen to dissenting voices contradicting your internal narrative.

any and all new information with be dealt with as somehow being inherently "wrong" for the simple fact of being in conflict with your opinion.
which will devolve any productive discussion into a quagmire of red herrings and straw man arguments.

and all of it predicated on the assumption that i wish to change your mind in regards to this particular incident.

which of course i dont.
because i dont really care what you think.

your ignorance is obvious.
your arguments are flimsy and disjointed and in direct conflict with each other.
but most of all....
you are boring.

I'm boring? It took you the equivalent of a book to answer a few simple questions. Did I as for a lecture on the oath of office? No. Did I ask for a lecture on the forth estate? No.

You used one as an excuse the other as a reason but nether answered the questions.

Finely after all the dogma I get an answer. A piss poor answer but its better than you rehashing the same thing for a forth time.

So Lets look at what you provided.

First Article.
Shit.. An article repeating the same dogma again for a forth time.....

Second Article.
FINELY! Examples! was that so hard? Really?
and it shows. Nothing that was not already known. (My Opinion)

"A Pentagon spokesman told the New York Times this week that under its procedure, when reports of Iraqi abuse were received the US military "notifies the responsible government of Iraq agency or ministry for investigation and follow-up".

If you know a better way?


So what did his leaks really do?

Retired Air Force Lt. Col. Martin Nehring, a classification expert who submitted written testimony, said that upon reviewing the information Manning released, he discovered that it included techniques for neutralizing improvised explosives, names of enemy targets, names of criminal suspects and troop movements, according to The Guardian.

Navy Reserve Lt. Cmdr. Thomas Hoskins also reviewed the documents and found potentially damaging information, including codewords, tactics and techniques for responding to roadside bombings, weapon capabilities, and assistance the U.S. military had received in tracking down suspects from foreign nationals, The Guardian reported.

These are just some of the reasons I consider him a traitor. This put people at risk.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/11/bradley-manning-wikileaks-trial-prosecution


He should of just released documentation on what he thought were the crimes or corruption. Not all of it and defiantly not that information.

If he made his oath to the US government, they broke faith first. All bets are off.

If he made his oath to the US people, which I believe he did, he has kept his word. Defending them against threats both foreign and DOMESTIC. The government is a threat.

Which doesn't bother me one way or another as an Australian. Strip away your bullshit diversions re: oaths, I see a very small man bravely standing up to a very big bully (the US government) and the cowards that support it (you...).

And if you do need more specifics...

http://southerncrossreview.org/78/madar-manning.html

Well referenced, although I doubt you'll give the reasoning the fair hearing it deserves. You've already made up your mind and decided to defend your stance no matter what.

I AM SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM!