Animals.

You don't have to be Muslim to get your clit cut off nor is it a practice exclusive to Sunni Islam.

Video titling implies this is directly related to all Muslims - but female circumcision touches a wide range of cultures and religions.

I'm a dude and I have scarring from my foreskin circumcision... but i digress.

interesting to note they make the relevant connection between urges and how satisfaction is sought, and what happens re: decision making when genitals are/aren't involved..

I do appreciate her, "they walk it off", attitude.

hehe, touches.

also, it's spelled "Circumcision".

Here are more enlightening things for people:

http://www.circumcision.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMSQPDd1B2g

"This is the most southerly of the tribes who live in Ethiopia's Omo Valley. In this harsh world, there are times when members of the Dassanech tribe lose their cattle and goats, and with them their livelihood. The way they deal with this, by switching to an alternative means of support by the shores of Lake Turkana, is an example of how life has to adapt in fundamental ways in the face of some of the most inhospitable conditions in the world."

*nochannel *femme *worldaffairs *news

Let me clarify a few common misconceptions.

1. Female circumcision predates the rise of Christianity and Islam.

2. There is no requirement for female circumcision in the Qu'ran nor in any Hadithas.

3. In Egypt, mufti Sheikh Ali Gomaa stated: "The traditional form of excision is a practice totally banned by Islam because of the compelling evidence of the extensive damage it causes to women's bodies and minds."

In March 2005, Dr Ahmed Talib, Dean of the Faculty of Sharia at Al-Azhar University, stated: "All practices of female circumcision and mutilation are crimes and have no relationship with Islam. Whether it involves the removal of the skin or the cutting of the flesh of the female genital organs... it is not an obligation in Islam." Both Christian and Muslim leaders have publicly denounced the practice of FGC since 1998.

4. However this is an old regional and cultural practice that seeps into societies, sometimes under the guise of Islam. Like many other stupid practices that somehow become Islamic because some idiot mullah or imam says so. On Wiki: "Despite laws forbidding the practice, FGC remains an enduring tradition in many societies and cultural groups. Political leaders have found FGC difficult to eliminate on the local level because of its cultural and sometimes political importance"

5. Most Islamic scholars or advocates of this practice are woefully ignorant and refuse to abide by the clear evidence that FGM is not obligatory or required in the Islamic faith.

This video has been removed from all channels (Islam, Worldaffairs, Femme, News) due to invalid channel assignment - nochannel invoked by Farhad2000. Please review the FAQ to learn about appropriate channel assignments.

Adding video to channels (Femme, News, Worldaffairs) - requested by Farhad2000.

heyyyyy that's a real nice no true scotsman argument you've got going there for yourself but unfortunately it's total bullshit. terribly sorry that your particular chosen brand of nutty belief system happens to be associated with this specific barbaric practice but that's the way it is. you can selectively quote wikipedia articles till the camels come home but the fact remains that FGM IS associated with some branches of islam and you Dr. internetnobody aren't the arbiter of which branches are "true" or "false". I'll get you started by giving you a little hint though......they're ALL FALSE. the islam tag is not only appropriate it's requisite.

hey stephen fry ftw. you brits butchered half of the world... so sorry dude, it is you who fail. and miserably, I might ad, since you are now the backwater of the also failing American empire..

jolly good show, pip, pip, and all that...

I am not British. I've lived in upstate NY since I was born here 27 years ago. twat.

half-british swine

in an effort to be still more inclusive...

the jewish falashas also practice fgc:

"FGC is practiced by the minority Ethiopian Jewish community (Beta Israel), formerly known as Falasha, most of whom now live in Israel. The operation may only be performed by a Jewish female."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting

i realize this is not a practice exclusive to islam. i was actually looking at videos of this practice in africa when i found this, i posted this is one because i think its interesting from the pov of women and how tied they feel it is to their culture, how they feel they must do it to remain in their particular community. this was not meant to single out muslims as clit destorying monsters. ill change the title so theres no confusion.

Talk to men in any big city in the US, and you will find and almost identical response to MGC.

What this shows is that when a society decides to ritually abuse their children they rationalizing it as normal and necessary, which is the reason my parents had my junk cut into, and my GF's parents conditioned her to wallow in gilt.

This has nothing to do with religion, this is all cultural. Just because this particular form of abuse is alien to you does not make it any worse than what your society does on a daily basis.

This is really fascinating. It reminds me of fraternity hazing or the like where the people who've gone through it feel compelled to subject new "recruits" to the same treatment, kind of a way of legitimizing their own experience.

you bring up an interesting topic, male circumsicion... i have a son, his dad and i argued through my whole pregnancy about whether or not to have cicumsicized. i did not want it done. as it is mutilation and if you werent supposed to have a foreskin, you wouldnt be born with one. the turning point came when i had to do a bladder study on 2 boys 2 weeks in a row, both were under 7, both had not been circumsized and both had chronic bladder and kidney infections. when i went to cath both of them their foreskins were filthy and crusted on, i dont think their parents have EVER pulled that stuff back and cleaned it properly. i interviewed all my male friends both circumsized and uncircumsized, and one friend that had not been circumsized as a baby, but chose to be later on in life, everyone says circumsicion. so we did it. he was 6 hours old, they numbed him and gave him a chocolate sucker to suck on. nowadays they circumsize babies by putting this plastic bell over their penis, it cuts off circulation to the foreskin and it falls off in about a week. we had no problems and he doesnt seem to miss it and i dont feel bad about it now. foreskins have been shown to carry disease and a contributing factor the aids epidemic in africa, but still as nature intended. its also interesting since ive grown up in a culture of male circumsicion, im intimidated by foreskins and prefer that stuff cut off if im gonna have sex with it, all my female friends feel the same way. how do the men feel about their foreskins, or lack there of?


also, to this day the smell of chocolate dumdums reminds me of the day my son was born.
>> ^dgandhi:
Talk to men in any big city in the US, and you will find and almost identical response to MGC.
What this shows is that when a society decides to ritually abuse their children they rationalizing it as normal and necessary, which is the reason my parents had my junk cut into, and my GF's parents conditioned her to wallow in gilt.
This has nothing to do with religion, this is all cultural. Just because this particular form of abuse is alien to you does not make it any worse than what your society does on a daily basis.

>> ^stephenfryftw:
I am not British. I've lived in upstate NY since I was born here 27 years ago. twat.

If you're 27, what do you act like you're 14?

Female genital mutilation is practiced by Muslims, Christians, Jews, and various tribal religions. Some religious leaders endorse it, some condone it, so although religion may play a role, it's really not the main issue. The truth is that it's more of a cultural problem. In the regional areas in which it is commonly practiced it is often considered a prerequisite for marriage. And many of these girls do not have economic alternatives to marriage (such as the ability to provide a living for themselves as adults). Thus, many parents opt for FGM for their girls thinking they are doing the right thing.

Understanding the cultural context is the best way to help prevent this practice. Which is why blaming it on the Muslim faith is counterproductive and oversimplified. Organizations trying to end FGM try to convince both parents to refuse FGM and to convince bachelors to marry uncut women. Also, they have created new coming of age rituals for girls in order to start a new tradition.

I think it's interesting the reporter doesn't ask similar questions about the boys being circumcised. Also, even tho these women seem to think that their faith is in agreement with the practice they also say that the practice makes girls "calm" and one says it makes them "grow tall and beautiful". So, I would say that these ideas along with the insistence that it's a religious practice are all just part of the rationalization and justification of the act.

A muslim they interviewed said it is required by Islam, and a bit of research shows that this view is held by a significant minority of muslims, so that makes it an *islam thing regardless of whether the Koran actually commands or forbids it.

Adding video to channels (Islam) - requested by jwray.

they mention the word Sunna. You know there is not just ONE kind of islam people follow, eh??

PLEASE NOT TO BE TOUCHING OF THE FEMALE GOODIES!

I'm against all circumcision and I think anyone who supports MGC but denounces FGC is a complete hypocrite. You're destroying the same piece of tissue with the same function. In my experience it's always the mother that insists on getting her son cut, usually because "it's hard to keep clean" otherwise. Oh, God forbid you have to make an effort to take care of your son! Kids are notorious for having dirt behind their ears; maybe you should cut those off too.

How would you feel if your mother hacked off half of your sexual organ because she didn't feel like cleaning it?

>> ^peggedbea:
you bring up an interesting topic, male circumsicion... i have a son, his dad and i argued through my whole pregnancy about whether or not to have cicumsicized. i did not want it done. as it is mutilation and if you werent supposed to have a foreskin, you wouldnt be born with one. the turning point came when i had to do a bladder study on 2 boys 2 weeks in a row, both were under 7, both had not been circumsized and both had chronic bladder and kidney infections. when i went to cath both of them their foreskins were filthy and crusted on, i dont think their parents have EVER pulled that stuff back and cleaned it properly. i interviewed all my male friends both circumsized and uncircumsized, and one friend that had not been circumsized as a baby, but chose to be later on in life, everyone says circumsicion. so we did it. he was 6 hours old, they numbed him and gave him a chocolate sucker to suck on. nowadays they circumsize babies by putting this plastic bell over their penis, it cuts off circulation to the foreskin and it falls off in about a week. we had no problems and he doesnt seem to miss it and i dont feel bad about it now. foreskins have been shown to carry disease and a contributing factor the aids epidemic in africa, but still as nature intended. its also interesting since ive grown up in a culture of male circumsicion, im intimidated by foreskins and prefer that stuff cut off if im gonna have sex with it, all my female friends feel the same way. how do the men feel about their foreskins, or lack there of?

Tags for this video have been changed from 'mutilation, circumsicion, women, ouch' to 'mutilation, circumcision, women, ouch' - edited by xxovercastxx

hmm... this is an extremely interesting cultural discussion/argument whatever. i disagree that the way male circumcision is performed in my cultural is quite on the same level as the way female circumcision is performed elsewhere, in regards to brutality. are both still mutilation? absolutely. but quietly slipping a bell over the thin tissue of a barely conscious infant and holding down a screaming child while you slice off large pieces of meat and sew it closed are not the same. i did not choose to have my son circumcisized strictly because other boys parents couldnt keep their sons clean. i also realized there will come a time when i can not be in control of how clean my son keeps his penis. the possibility of disease and infection definitely had an impact. and its a prevailing and persuasive theme for why it could be the right thing to do. though, it doesnt necessarily make it right. all parents are certainly influenced by cultural norms when it comes to how they raise their children. in either case, it seemingly does little harm in the long run as long as it is established and called for within your culture. interesting. imma go look up more on the health benefits/consequences of female and male circumcision. i also spell poorly.

why anyone would want to ruin a perfectly good pussy is beyond me

>> ^stephenfryftw:
the islam tag is not only appropriate it's requisite.


Sigh. How many times must I see this misconception? The words under the vote counts are not tags, they are channel names. Each channel has its specific rules (made by the channel owner) for what kind of videos are to be included. THAT is what decides if it is an appropriate channel assignment, not that the name of the channel somehow is related with the contents of the video.

I will however concur that this video belongs in islam due to this part in the channel description:
Finally, it is a place for discussing the key theological, social, and political issues which dominate the Islamic world: (...) women's rights,(...).

Regardless of the origins of circumcision, Islam is used in some areas to justify FGM. And the video certainly has sparked discussion as intended by the channel creator. Let it stay.

>> ^kulpims:
why anyone would want to ruin a perfectly good pussy is beyond me


well not that i like circumcision, but some pussies are dangerous. they gobble you up and then you can't find your way home anymore.

^im down with vulgarity and loving vaginas, not sure that this is thread for you two to be pigs however.

It's easy to judge one's own culture as superior to others. Personally, I think female circumcision is the primary means of female oppression, in most cases.

As far as male circumcision is concerned: On the positive side, I can fuck Jewish girls. On the negative side, I've lost 25% nerve pleasure...

Tags for this video have been changed from 'mutilation, circumcision, women, ouch' to 'mutilation, circumcision, women, ouch, gentials' - edited by Zonbie

>> ^peggedbea:
the turning point came when i had to do a bladder study on 2 boys 2 weeks in a row, both were under 7, both had not been circumsized and both had chronic bladder and kidney infections. when i went to cath both of them their foreskins were filthy and crusted on, i dont think their parents have EVER pulled that stuff back and cleaned it properly.

WTF, are you an idiot? This only shows the mental damage American society (or whatever society you're in) has had from years of unwarranted circumcision : bad genital hygiene. The Chinese/Japanese/Indian/Latino-American/European are for the majority uncircumcised and lo, they wash their foreskin and don't get any more infections than the circumcised. And why would what other parents can't do influence your choice? Because they're so dumb they can't wash their child's foreskin you're going to lower yourself to their level and not wash your child's foreskin too? What if they jumped off a bridge, would you jump off too?

The generalized correct reasoning here is this: don't wash foreskin = infection. Wash foreskin = no infection. Everything else is pure bullshit (because as we all know bovine feces is sterile).

i interviewed all my male friends both circumsized and uncircumsized, and one friend that had not been circumsized as a baby, but chose to be later on in life, everyone says circumsicion. so we did it.

And so you're a hypocrite and a sheeple. Not surprising coming from an idiot. Ask a Sunni if Shiites are bad, of course he'll say yes. Ask an evangelical church-goer if atheists are bad, of course he'll say yes. It still doesn't mean their opinion has any value outside of their little micro-society.

he was 6 hours old, they numbed him and gave him a chocolate sucker to suck on. nowadays they circumsize babies by putting this plastic bell over their penis, it cuts off circulation to the foreskin and it falls off in about a week. we had no problems and he doesnt seem to miss it and i dont feel bad about it now.

Glad the experience didn't give you PTSD.

foreskins have been shown to carry disease and a contributing factor the aids epidemic in africa, but still as nature intended.

False, false, false, and you're an idiot. The "study" that "proved" a "link" between foreskin and AIDS was a "study" that looked at the prevalence of AIDS vs the prevalence of circumcision, and ONLY in some regions of South Africa. More that 30% of South Africans have HIV. Correlation is NOT causation, not even link. Do some statistics: you'll be scared by how easy it is to find correlations between non random normally distributed sets, which includes nearly everything that has to do with human life.

its also interesting since ive grown up in a culture of male circumsicion, im intimidated by foreskins and prefer that stuff cut off if im gonna have sex with it, all my female friends feel the same way.

Yes it's interesting, but not the way you think it is. It's interesting in the same way the neurotic women Freud psychoanalyzed were interesting : they were mentally ill.

how do the men feel about their foreskins, or lack there of?

Coming from a now mostly circumcision free society, we do not feel much of anything about our foreskins unless they give us trouble, like any other part of our body.

also, to this day the smell of chocolate dumdums reminds me of the day my son was born.

Proof of your neurosis? You tell me.

Finally, I think the Ancient Greeks had it right : a man is not naked until his foreskin is fully retracted. Maybe circumcision is why so many Americans are still so prudish regarding nudity?