(p.s. - don't really care about things like gas, here, as I walk or bike everywhere and don't really mind it, but I get what you're saying. I do feel obliged to inquire to you what a weaker dollar will NOT drive up the price of - please keep in mind that very many domestic manufacturers have moved their manufacturing operations to other countries due to a strong dollar for so long, so unless the dollar's slide in value happens VERY VERY slowly, we're in for quite an increase in the cost of almost everything.

If you have an idea of how it would happen as slowly as would be needed [considering we're going to have to re-build factories, and re-train incredible amounts of people in things that we currently no longer know...probably by having people from other countries train them], please enlighten me.

Oh, and no I don't walk or bike everywhere because I'm super-concerned about my health or the environment - I do so because everything I need to do, I can walk or bike to quite easily, and car insurance/etc. prices suck .)

Thanks for the explanation of the caste system, mate.

From the date this country was founded, I'm sure you can find laws that were created that courts were obligated to abide by. If "order and justice" is so difficult to maintain that ANY given caste of people must remain outside of it, this country has been incredibly deceived for quite a long time.

I happen to believe it's time that ends. I do not believe that you or I are any more intelligent than "common people" due to the way we interpret the legal system...as a matter of fact, I find that there are many areas of study that I could simply not comprehend, but others are expert in, because of the differences in our lives. I believe we are "common people," and I have yet to meet any person that could claim they are not(yes, even the incredibly rich and/or educated).

Essentially, you're saying that facts are arbitrary to opinion, and while that's true in a philosophical sense, in the physical sense(which is the universe we live in), when I give a person one apple, even though they have the potential to grow a whole tree from it, they currently only have one physical apple. Their opinion of what they currently have does not change the fact that they are only holding one physical apple, and not an entire tree, at the moment.


To put it simply, my friend - to have a view of the human race as essentially master/slave the way you state above, that "common people tend to be uneducated, and shouldn't be trusted with such legal matters," I can only speculate that you do not take consideration into the technicalities of things you consider to be "common knowledge."

The Constitution was written with the intention that the common person could interpret it, and that the interpretation of it, by ANYBODY, would not be construed as to deny or disparage rights retained by the people. I understand that they screwed up on many things, like not giving women or blacks the right to vote, etc., but they did understand that it would be revised(and even created the Amendment process, to give it the ability to be revised). I believe their intention was that any revisions would not deny American citizens their rights, however, as is stated in the Bill of Rights.

Now, of course, you are addressing how the law is practiced right now, and I am addressing how the law should be practiced, but is that not what this documentary, and many others that we debate on the forums of, is about? - that somewhere along the line of American History, the system that was created to work in our interests started working against us, that we must now subscribe to systems that we neither believe to to benefit us, nor do we desire.

Like the Federal Income Tax. Surely you understand that almost every cent we pay toward the Federal Income Tax goes toward interest accrued on the national debt? How, then, does it benefit you to pay Federal Income Tax, when you neither receive service for it, nor is the government required(nor do they have a plan) to lower the national debt so we could use our Federal Income Tax dollars for something that would benefit us(unless, of course, you receive dividends from the Federal Reserve )?

I do understand, in incredible detail, how the system currently operates. How do you think it should operate, and more importantly - why do you think it should operate that way?

I miss my TRS-80 and Commodore PET sometimes.....

Yes, not commodore 64...commodore PET lol....

???....how the law should be practiced?

And why isn't it practiced like this?

The courts must recognize the jury's trial of the law as well as that of the supposed "offender," otherwise the courts are not following their own rules.

In absence of a law, you have nothing to try facts against.

Screw the religious shit and look at the tiny little bit of historical timeline it describes. I've expanded on it somewhat, below, as this video really focuses on religion too much.

It starts with 200 years ago, when England made usury legal.
As per Ben Franklin's own words, among others, the Revolutionary War had more to do with money than it did with independence.

1913 - Federal Income Tax and the Federal Reserve created.

1933 - USD no longer redeemable for gold for American citizens, but since it is still redeemable for gold for foreign citizens and foreign countries, it becomes the reserve currency of the world.

August 15, 1971 - USD no longer redeemable for Gold for foreign citizens/countries(even though foreign citizens/countries had tons of it). Essentially, Nixon defaulted the reserve currency of the world.

1972/1973 - Nixon and OPEC work out a deal where all OPEC countries would accept only USD as payment for oil.

November, 2000 - Iraq starts accepting Euro for oil. Since it is an OPEC country, they are directly threatening the global value of the USD by doing so, as demand for the USD would drop if oil could be purchased in something other than USD.

May, 2006 - Iran opens it's oil commodities exchange

Technically, this guy's right that if the Third World defaults, and we support it, the banking system would screech to a technical halt...but not for long - they've dealt with worse calamities than that in just some media play.

Peroxide: Proteins, lipids, and carbohydrates react naturally via well understood physical and chemical processes...in a similar way to how hydrogen reacts with oxygen to produce water.

Certain combinations of proteins, lipids, and carbohydrates have the ability to stay CONNECTED in various environments, more than other combinations do. Eventually(over maybe, I don't know - a couple million years maybe?), those combinations form what we now know as complex life...from certain combinations that stay together in certain environments further combining with other combinations...on and on, through time.

bluecliff: The clockmaker was hired by Wal-Mart to make molds of the parts he used to produce by hand, and work closely with a programmer to program robots to put together the parts to make a watch. The clockmaker mysteriously died six days after receiving his royalty check from Wal-Mart, and Wal-Mart shipped the entire factory they had sponsored the building of, and set of robots to China.

The humans working in the original factory that made the watches were offered a job in the Chinese factory provided they could relocate to China on their own. None having the ability to do so, their Union tried to make a deal with Wal-Mart Inc. and they were all offered jobs at the new Wal-Mart stores that would open up in their area within the next four to six weeks. Their cost is now $5.50 per hour and their vocabulary has improved from Engineering/Machining terms to "Welcome to Wal-Mart, Sir or Ma'am."

Wal-Mart looks forward to your assimilation, as well.

END TRANSMISSION

Good explanation of what I was trying to say above: http://www.videosift.com/video/Quick-explanation-of-Banking-in-the-US-and-Oil#leavecomment

(of course, I didn't use this video as the source of info for what I said in the previous post - I've known this stuff for quite a while by actually having read through history of Federal Reserve, etc. from past discussions)

As for the amount of people needed to carry off such an operation, well I don't see how it would be in the thousands.

Think about it - Dick Cheney orders a couple of different exercises to be carried out by the Nation's military on the day of the event, to keep them busy. Those exercises have the nicely added effect of putting false radar signals on various control tower's radar, etc - as they are taking part in the exercises, and thus NEED to be able to instruct various military personnel as to where the false planes are, all as part of normal military exercises(yes, former mil here, too - all of what I'm saying is actually well documented).

To get some form of explosive in the tower - well, I don't know where you heard the "proposed 26 hours" that you cite above, but the WTC towers were being worked on for about 2 weeks prior to 9/11. Various parts of the towers were having power turned on and off, and only during the last weekend, both building's power and security systems were shut down.

Now, the people to plant the explosives, etc - would they really have to have very little moral character? How did 9/11 benefit the American economy?

Well, prior to 9/11, Iraq's Saddam Hussein had announced that it would start accepting Euros as payment for Oil("In November 2000, Iraq became the first OPEC nation to begin selling its oil for Euros." - http://www.projectcensored.org/Publications/2004/19.html). Due to our embargo on Iraq, and the subsequent "Oil for Food" program that the UN announced, it made sense that, in order for them to get at least some funding to feed their economy in at least the slightest way...maybe to be able to afford weapons - maybe even just to be able to buy building materials for their own country - who knows?

Thing is, as part of a 1972-1973(can't remember which year) agreement between President Nixon and OPEC, OPEC agreed to accept only USD as payment for oil. This subsequent agreement occurred one or two years after Nixon stopped the backing of the USD by gold for foreign investors, on August 15, 1971. The USD hadn't been backed by gold for citizens of the U.S., but foreign investors could cash in their USD for gold up until that point.

What does this mean? Well, basically it means that the USD stopped being backed by gold in 1971 and OPEC started accepting ONLY USD for oil in 1972 or 73...essentially backing our currency by what?....oil!

So, as you can probably understand, it's quite a threat for Iraq to start accepting Euros for oil(and the USD has taken a hit because of it - around 17% loss in value, so far).

Now, however(and this might explain a lot to you), Iran has opened it's "Oil Bourse" - accepting what for oil?....Euro and Yen. What further complicates matters with Iran, however, is that China is now buying 50% of it's oil from Iran in Yen, because, of course, it's easier for them(easier than having to try to get USD to buy oil from OPEC with).

Well, that kindof complicates things on a global geopolitical stage. What it means is that, as more countries start buying oil with Euro and Yen, they will stop trying to get USD, and even use the last of their USD and not really have a need to get more(since they can now buy oil in Euro or Yen - or even diversify between Euro, Yen, and USD - either way, the demand for USD lowers).

On a global scale, this will most certainly disrupt the value of the USD like never seen before.

Had Iraq actually gotten clients for his "Oil for Euro/Yen" program, it would have been devastating for the USD back in 2001...but 9/11 happened, giving us a "reason"(even if only superficially and even a lie) to go into Iraq.

In effect, those that may have taken down the towers did us a favor - they stopped millions from being killed by what would be an ensuing recession/depression in the value of the USD(as is kindof happening now) by killing only 2000 people in the towers, and a couple thousand killed in a war to hold onto Iraq's oil as a type of backing for USD.

Don't believe me, though - look into it yourself. All of the above described events and places are well documented. Look into the "Iranian Oil Bourse" in particular.

I agree with you(and many many other people) on the skepticism you present concerning the buildings' destruction as a result of demolition. I do not believe that it is my place, or within the scope of my knowledge, to speculate as to WHO would be responsible for such an atrocious act(if indeed it was caused by some form of controlled demolition).

The reason I do not believe 500-600 mph is sufficient speed for the aircraft to go through more than a central column or 2, is basically this:

The engine itself has a mass of about 4,000 kg spread across what is basically a 2m x 2m x 3m soda can, with internal systems that ARE meant to detach from the engine upon impact at those speeds, lowering the mass of the engine significantly, and reducing it to basically the outside shell and some structural aluminum(most of the titanium alloys in an engine are spent on things that have to withstand TREMENDOUS force - fan, compressor, and turbine blades - blades which will fly off in an impact[as a matter of fact, I think you can buy a couple as collectibles on eBay these days]).

Good explanation/vid of basic structure of an engine: http://www.geae.com/engines/commercial/genx/index.html

The outside of the engine is basically an aluminum shell, and deforms pretty much just like a soda can does - since much of the engine's mass is removed from the engine upon first impact(granted, you have titanium alloy fan blades all over the place, but much of the mass IS gone, as a safety feature of the engines), the second impact usually just deforms the last structural sections of the engine.

It is not a "solid block of titanium," or even close - Titanium is expensive to buy, expensive to machine, and relatively massive compared to the materials in the rest of the engine, and even the rest of the plane. Plane and engine manufacturers like to go lightweight and strong, which is why aluminum and titanium alloys are often used.

(continued below)...

Doc_M: 500-600mph estimate is based on min/max from NIST report, and backed up by the book "Debunking 9/11 Myths."

Also, the engines are not "solid titanium" - most of the engine's components are an aluminum/titanium alloy, which further decreases the density of the titanium(which is why "the engines...could not have gone through (more than - your edit) a central column or two" - they would have been quite shredded after going through the steel OUTER columns first - the fan blades themselves would have already ejected from the engine[as they are designed to do], and all that would have been left, after the collision with the outer columns, would have been scraps of the casing, fuel system, and the internal rotor/cooling system).

This is actually one subject I have more extensive knowledge about, even, as I did quite a lot of work on GE's GEnx series of engines. Even though they are most certainly NOT the same series present on the planes that crashed into the WTC buildings, well, look at it this way: using solid titanium increases both the weight and the cost of the engines(just for starters - if you'd like, I can list multitudes of reasons that engine manufacturers do NOT use "solid titanium").

Call it a "wild guess" if you want - if you're interested, it's actually quite easy to test what I'm saying here using simple, proven, Newtonian Physics. Check the comments section of theo47's profile for a good creative commons book on that. Take a look, specifically, at the section on "Force and Motion."

Oh, and p.s. - I have spent 40-60 hours per week for the past couple of years "thinking about" and "calculating it." If you want to debunk me, please do so - Newtonian physics is most certainly NOT difficult in any sense of the term, and heck - you'll be able to prove just how much "guessing" I have done.

Again, I repeat - more fun stuff to keep us talking...

Agree with rougy on this one - the speed required to cause almost the entirety of the plane(composed primarily of carbon fiber and aluminum) to virtually slice the central columns, after having passed through the outer steel columns, would simply be astounding(quite greater than ~500-600mph).

Density of steel is ~7.8g/cm^3 - aluminum/aluminum alloys generally run ~2.8g/cm^3. I'm not even going to go into the density of carbon fiber.

That's not to say that the engines, composed primarily of titanium/aluminum, could not have gone through a center column or two - density of titanium is ~4.5g/cm^3.

Sure, the planes have a large amount of mass, but the WTC towers weren't exactly low mass themselves.

More fun stuff to keep us talking...

*dead

dead video

not a Hilldog fan, but amusing...

"You and I"....oich....

??? "Underlying belief systems" CAN'T "override" physics, as physics is comprised of a set of mathematical equations that describe the PHYSICAL world.(You don't agree with what I propose, you write up a whitepaper describing your opposing thesis, USING PHYSICAL LAW, and debate me with MATH - not a blind excuse. That's all I'm asking for here - PROVE me wrong USING the EQUATIONS THAT DESCRIBE THE PHYSICAL WORLD, oh mighty self-proclaimed "atheist" that for some reason has faith in TV and Movies enough to promote all of the mainstream concepts without question.)

You're really making no sense, Theo - why don't you try to run the equations yourself? Why won't you even make an attempt? Are you just not capable of high school physics?

You have an excuse for everything.

(p.s. - I don't advocate any "belief system" - and especially NOT "intelligent design" - however I am VERY honest about being an atheist, because I'm not going to hide it. Your excuses have no basis.)




In reply to your comment:
“There are Ph.D.'s who are advocates for intelligent design, too - and their underlying belief systems override their better judgment, just like with you.


In reply to your comment:
“Some life - arguing/voting down others about subjects you don't know anything about.

If I'm a science "amateur," who do you consider to be professionals? Please note - I am a physicist.

My challenge stands. Newtonian physics is 10th grade level physics at best. If it'd take too much of your glorious "life" in order to complete my challenge, then maybe you should go back to high school.

As for your challenge, here is where I spend 75% of my time: http://xxx.lanl.gov



In reply to your comment:
“Sorry, dude - I try to have a life.
Here's a challenge for you:
Read something other than crap on 9/11 conspiracy websites from science amateurs like yourself.

In reply to your comment:
“Here's a challenge for you: Prove that the WTC COULD have collapsed using Newtonian physics and provide your dissertation.

Here is a very good Creative Commons book on Newtonian physics. Use this or any other book on Newtonian physics you know, and tell me how the towers could have collapsed in the time they did. Use any video or written documentation you choose as a record of the time those towers took to fall.
””””