MaxWilder - If you want to discuss it with me at any time, feel free to send me a message.

>> ^MaxWilder:

>> ^Toshley:
I don't even know where to begin with this.
I never said that atheists don't know the literature and I honestly don't appreciate you trying to turn what I said into a attack on the atheist community.
Let me break it down for you so you can understand it better:
"You're misinformed about the Bible. If you're going to criticize a religion, it might be best to read the literature, in this case... know the reasoning for the Old and New Testament."
Notice that I used "You're" at the beginning of the sentence, meaning you are. You, being a single person. Notice again that I began my next sentence the same way, clearly stating it was directed at the author of the comment, I was kind enough to quote so people didn't take it out of context (oddly wasn't enough).
I don't feel the need to respond to the rest of your message because you seem like the type of person to just twist what I say and try and use it against me.
If you want to be civil and talk with an open-mind, you're more than welcome to talk with me.
>> ^MaxWilder:
Toshley - Please explain Exodus 31:12-15. Although Jesus made a few exceptions for reasons of "compassion" in Matthew 12:1-14, but I don't see how that is a total rejection of the law.
I would advise you not to assume that atheists do not know the literature. Most of us in the US were raised Christian and became atheists because we learned too much about Christianity, and had the capacity for critical thought, which is anathema to religion.
If you feel that the Bible contradicts or invalidates a statement made by an atheist, please state the quote rather than telling somebody that they don't know the literature. Otherwise you will likely find that it is you that don't know it.



Sigh. I know you were talking to a specific person. I'm not an idiot.
You said to Drachen_Jager "You're misinformed about the Bible." And that was the entire thrust of your refutation of his point. But what do you know about his Biblical understanding? That is an assumption you are making because you disagree with him. Rather than dismiss his knowledge on the subject, it would be more helpful if you could support your opinion with facts.
I am simply trying to encourage you to be more specific. If you offer nothing more than vague "You're wrong" responses, you are not contributing to the discussion. As you can see by the other responses in this thread, you will also be barraged by replies questioning your intelligence. Around here people respect two things: humor and rational debate. Rational debate includes supporting evidence and logical reasoning.
I apologize if I seemed uncivil. That was not intended.
I would also welcome a civil conversation, where people do not make assumptions like "... you seem like the type of person to just twist what I say and try and use it against me." No, I will use exactly what you say and use it against you.


Thank you, MaxWilder.

This is the kind of constructive criticism that's useful without being insulting. I know this site if filled with extremely intellectual and open-minded people, I've been coming to this site for a long time and didn't sign up until recently.

You're right that I shouldn't have said "You're misinformed about the Bible.", I should have elaborated. I will be the first to admit that I am not the most intellectual person I know and at times, I don't know how to word something appropriately, that's why I sent him the video that explained what I couldn't put into words. He didn't watch it and that's his decision.

This is going to be the last time I reply to a religious video on Videosift, I don't like arguing about religion because I honestly don't care about the beliefs of others. I respect their decision to choose, we all have the right to say what we want and believe in what we want.

I apologize about my previous statement about you turning my words around, when I read:
"I would advise you not to assume that atheists do not know the literature."

I thought you were implying that I was addressing every atheist. I can tell you as a Christian that most atheists I know, know more about the Bible than some Christians. It's sad but true.

Again, thank you for the reply and I won't be commenting on religion any further.

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

Tell me the timecode where he provides the brilliant argument that makes your point then. I don't have time to waste on stupid Christian videos that seem to be only tangentially related to the argument at hand and don't even appear to support your side.
>> ^Toshley:
>> ^Drachen_Jager:
Umm, he says repeatedly in the video that morality is subjective. I got as far as the point where he said he wasn't going to talk about using the bible as on objective standard. The rest just seems to be excusing all the wicked behaviour in the Old Testament on a variety of thin pretexts. I'm not going to waste my time with the whole thing. He certainly seems to be backing my side of this argument.
See this page for moral problems in the New Testament. Obviously even the new/old testament argument doesn't really hold much water. Humans make their own morality, 2,000 year old books are out of date and any idiot who thinks a modern person can safely determine moral issues using no human judgement, only the Bible as a source is utterly hopeless.
>> ^Toshley:
At this point, I am going to go ahead and assume you're a troll.
If you're honestly confused, I suggest you watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PrZeqhsdqE


There's no point in continuing this conversation.
I am looking for intellectual and rational discussion here. You've admitted that you didn't watch the entire video and then expect me to follow some link you provided?
Feel free to continue calling me an idiot, I personally don't care.



You don't have time to waste on a stupid Christian video but yet you had time to watch this one, comment on it, and defend your lack of belief militantly.

Congratulations on time management.

Please stop replying to my messages unless you want to talk in a civil manner. The video was directly related to the discussion at hand, you would have known that if you had watched the entire video.

Of course it "Do not even appear" to support my side because the video touches on multiple subjects.

Troll somewhere else. I am done.

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

Umm, he says repeatedly in the video that morality is subjective. I got as far as the point where he said he wasn't going to talk about using the bible as on objective standard. The rest just seems to be excusing all the wicked behaviour in the Old Testament on a variety of thin pretexts. I'm not going to waste my time with the whole thing. He certainly seems to be backing my side of this argument.
See this page for moral problems in the New Testament. Obviously even the new/old testament argument doesn't really hold much water. Humans make their own morality, 2,000 year old books are out of date and any idiot who thinks a modern person can safely determine moral issues using no human judgement, only the Bible as a source is utterly hopeless.
>> ^Toshley:
At this point, I am going to go ahead and assume you're a troll.
If you're honestly confused, I suggest you watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PrZeqhsdqE



There's no point in continuing this conversation.

I am looking for intellectual and rational discussion here. You've admitted that you didn't watch the entire video and then expect me to follow some link you provided?

Feel free to continue calling me an idiot, I personally don't care.

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

So you get to choose between new and old testaments? If humans have a choice in their morality then it is people, not God who decide upon correct moral behaviour.
Thank you for supporting my argument.
>> ^Mcboinkens:
The Old Testament. He was telling his people how to live by his law. Then the new testament came and that rule is no longer a standard. That should help clear some things up.



At this point, I am going to go ahead and assume you're a troll.

If you're honestly confused, I suggest you watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PrZeqhsdqE

>> ^MaxWilder:

@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/Toshley" title="member since February 6th, 2011" class="profilelink">Toshley - Please explain Exodus 31:12-15. Although Jesus made a few exceptions for reasons of "compassion" in Matthew 12:1-14, but I don't see how that is a total rejection of the law.
I would advise you not to assume that atheists do not know the literature. Most of us in the US were raised Christian and became atheists because we learned too much about Christianity, and had the capacity for critical thought, which is anathema to religion.
If you feel that the Bible contradicts or invalidates a statement made by an atheist, please state the quote rather than telling somebody that they don't know the literature. Otherwise you will likely find that it is you that don't know it.


I don't even know where to begin with this.

I never said that atheists don't know the literature and I honestly don't appreciate you trying to turn what I said into a attack on the atheist community.

Let me break it down for you so you can understand it better:
"You're misinformed about the Bible. If you're going to criticize a religion, it might be best to read the literature, in this case... know the reasoning for the Old and New Testament."

Notice that I used "You're" at the beginning of the sentence, meaning you are. You, being a single person. Notice again that I began my next sentence the same way, clearly stating it was directed at the author of the comment, I was kind enough to quote so people didn't take it out of context (oddly wasn't enough).

I don't feel the need to respond to the rest of your message because you seem like the type of person to just twist what I say and try and use it against me.

If you want to be civil and talk with an open-mind, you're more than welcome to talk with me.

Thank you for the reply.

I agree with you completely, this site has some of the most intellectual and well-spoken people of any other site I have browsed. I look forward to conversing with new people and have a broader understanding of the world I live in and the people around me.

Religion is a sensitive subject, the most you can hope for is civility and honest discourse.

>> ^jonny:

I'm sorry that you were disappointed. As you may or may not have noticed, the very first comment was my own acknowledgement that it was not something I would typically post. That said, it seemed fairly obvious to myself and others that it was intended as parody by the original author (youtube user tamtampamela), and as such was pretty harmless.
I can appreciate your discontent with the level of discourse on religion, faith, and spirituality here at VideoSift. I gave up trying honestly to engage people in such subjects quite a long time ago. It's particularly disappointing given the otherwise high level of intellect found here.
Now that you are a fully signed up member, though, I urge you to engage when and where you will.
In reply to this comment by Toshley:
I've been using Videosift for a while now, never felt compelled to comment until I watched this video and read the comments. I've watched every atheist video that's been uploaded and watched it with an open-mind, I was ashamed to see this had been posted merely for comedic purposes.
It's a bit "Fox News" to only promote one side of an argument and then show the worst of the opposing view. I know that it's a long standing debate whether there is or isn't a God but let's try and be mature about how we discuss it.

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

If all of your morality comes from the bible, why aren't you out stoning the cashiers who work at Wal-Mart on Sundays? That's what the bible tells you to do after all.
If you question it, or make up your own mind then your morality doesn't really come from the bible at all does it?


You're misinformed about the Bible. If you're going to criticize a religion, it might be best to read the literature, in this case... know the reasoning for the Old and New Testament.

I've been using Videosift for a while now, never felt compelled to comment until I watched this video and read the comments. I've watched every atheist video that's been uploaded and watched it with an open-mind, I was ashamed to see this had been posted merely for comedic purposes.

It's a bit "Fox News" to only promote one side of an argument and then show the worst of the opposing view. I know that it's a long standing debate whether there is or isn't a God but let's try and be mature about how we discuss it.