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A Very Realistic Military Game - Amy Schumer

Huckabee is Not a Homophobe, but...

Hanover_Phist says...

Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't suggest the Muslim men were not discriminating. I simply stated that the Canadian woman who wanted to force devout Muslim men to cut her hair, for her to use her basic human right to not be discriminated against as a woman to leverage those men into a difficult position, sounds like a crappy thing to do. Just as if a mixed race couple were to find Archie Bunker to ask him to cater their wedding solely for the purpose of crying foul when they get discriminated against by the well known racist.

But that's not what's going on with the wedding couple, the photographer or the bakers. You are insisting that discrimination should be protected as a fundamental human right if someone calls it their “religion” and I find that idea abhorrent. So does the State of Oregon.

The bakers can't discriminate against a gay couple on religious grounds just as Archie Bunker can't deny blacks from drinking from the same water fountain as him. The difference between these two analogies is Archie Bunker wouldn't then turn around and suggest that his right to be a bigot is a fundamental human right that is on par with black's rights to not be discriminated against.

“what is to stop the members of Westboro Baptist Church from showing up at a bakery run by gays and demand they cater an anti-gay event?” answer; Anti-discrimination laws.

As stated many times above, your right to religion extends to the tip of your nose. That's how and why physical rights trump religious rights.

silvercord said:

I guess I am having difficulty squaring two of the things you've mentioned. If a devout Muslim barber can refuse to serve women and this is not seen as discrimination why can't a devout Christian refuse to participate in a gay wedding and get the same respect from you?

As to the idea that religious rights, or rights of conscience are subservient to rights of physical attributes or genetic predisposition I need more convincing. The Civil Rights Act doesn't favor one over the other. Religion ranks as an equal with race, color, sex and national origin. How are physical rights "more protected?"

An instance comes to mind where someone's religious rights are actually weighed as more important that your physical rights. Members of the Native American Church may legally use peyote. You and I will be arrested.

I see the argument of conscience vs. genetics upside down from where you've landed. So does the State of Oregon. Did you know, that if there is no reconciliation between the bakery and the State then State will move to 'rehabilitate?' Because something must be defective in the bakery owner's mind they need to be 'rehabilitated.' That is chilling. The very idea that your thoughts could be somehow suspect indicates that the State has concluded that thoughts are incredibly important. Because thoughts lead to behavior. Not only do they not want you behaving in a certain manner, they don't even want you thinking it. I reference 1984 and Animal Farm.

I am not sure that people know what they are asking for when they back this kind of intrusion. It might seem right to them at this moment, but when their counterparts are are in charge (because the pendulum swings), it makes one wonder what thoughts will be in the dock then. How will that law be used to root out contrary thinking then? I want to be free to think what I want to think. I want the privilege of being right and the privilege of being wrong. I also want you to have that privilege, as well.

As I have mentioned before, I think these laws are blunt. While I agree that people should not be discriminated against and I practice that in my own life, what is to stop the members of Westboro Baptist Church from showing up at a bakery run by gays and demand they cater an anti-gay event? How can they refuse since they already cater other events? We have opened the proverbial can of worms

Huckabee is Not a Homophobe, but...

Hanover_Phist says...

First of all, I believe the Canadian woman who wanted to force devout Muslim men to cut her hair is a jerk. I think that's kind of obvious. Outside of human rights, I think there should be laws to protect you from jerks. Depending on the area, municipal or provincial legislatures could address these kinds of issues in a more sensitive, localized, one on one basis.

But when it comes to basic, universal, human rights; your life, the colour of your skin, the sex you were born as and your sexual orientation are more protected than the thoughts in your head.

So when you say “People on both sides have rights” You leave me with the impression that you think these rights are equal, and they are not.

Huckabee is Not a Homophobe, but...

A genetic algorithm learns how to fight!

Huckabee is Not a Homophobe, but...

Hanover_Phist says...

Just so you know, and it would appear some people on this thread don't, anti-discrimination law is not legislation designed to punish bigots or to teach people tolerance, they are there to protect people from discrimination. Protection from discrimination is something everyone needs. These are good laws that do good things. I find people's lack of faith in laws that protect people rather disturbing.

Huckabee is Not a Homophobe, but...

Hanover_Phist says...

My analogy has nothing to do with accepting the job and backing out, it has everything to do with WHY they refused these clients service. These people were turned away because of their sexual orientation. That was the photographers own words, it's not contested. 'We don't want to shoot your wedding because same sex marriage is against our beliefs.' That's discrimination. It's really quite simple. If you turn down customers on the basis of sexual orientation you are discriminating. You pay a fine.

Huckabee is Not a Homophobe, but...

Hanover_Phist says...

The key difference that you are ignoring is that this photographer told the client the reason they refused them service was because of their sexual orientation. If the photographer told the client that they had different artistic views, that would be different, but they didn't. New Mexico's anti-discrimination law forbids for-profit businesses from turning down customers on the basis of sexual orientation. I believe that's a good law because I believe discrimination is bad.
I don't have hate in my heart "dude", it's indignation.

Darkhand said:

If a wedding photographer said YES I will do your photoshoot and then showed up to the wedding they still have to do the shoot. Its their job to perform the shoot because it's not fair to the couple to have NO photographer once the wedding starts.

I have creative pursuits. If someone told me to make a song about hating cats I'd be like "sorry I can't I love cats".

It's not about hiding behind religion for me it applies to anything I don't believe in or like or whatever. As an artist I shouldn't be forced to do something with my pen, camera, note, paper, whatever I don't like or agree with.

You seem to have a lot of hate in your heart dude.

Huckabee is Not a Homophobe, but...

Hanover_Phist says...

Really? Lets say a wedding photographer was hired to shoot a wedding, but then refused to do so once the they found out it was going to be a wedding of a mixed race couple. And they said; "We're not going to shoot your wedding because interracial marriage is against our beliefs."

You don't think that sort of discrimination is worthy of the state human rights commission to fine that business?

Personally, I'm sick of bigots using religion as an excuse to treat fellow human beings like trash and getting away with it.

Maybe if you're a piece of shit bigot, you shouldn't own a business that deals with the public, or run for office.

Darkhand said:

This is probably the only time I'll ever agree with Mike Hucabee.

Gay people should not be turned away from like a best buy, applebees, whatever. But people who take photos, make videos, design clothes, they should be allowed to say I can't do this for you because my heart would not be in it.

Comedian Hari Kondabolu on Race and Math Misconceptions

Things like this make me scared of driving on Highways

Hanover_Phist says...

RIGHT! Thailand. My bad.
Still, it seems like no one was passing on the right side... er correct side consistently.

Raveni said:

Either I'm missing the sarcasm tag, or you're missing that the lanes are flipped. When driving on the left, you pass on the right. The passing lane is always closest to oncoming traffic.

Mass Incarceration in the US - Vlogbrothers

Hanover_Phist says...

Hank and John have an immense influence to educate via the internet. It always makes me glad to see them tackle the big issues. (See Hanks video on climate change)
Unfortunately, these big problems are real and are big and that makes me sad.
Keep up the good work Brothers Vlog.

Things like this make me scared of driving on Highways

42 lb Flywheel Above Head One Handed

Minuscule Valley Of The Lost Ants - Official Trailer



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