I read books about serial killers and psychopaths, but I don't want to kill people. I'm also not a compulsive liar. And I didn't just steal your wallet.

^I think I just caught 'Internet AIDS' reading another one of thinker247's self-masturbatory comments. His subtext: "me, I'm funny, me, aren't I clever, me."

Bull. I'm a parent and I'm more concerned about our kids made to look and behave sexually mature waaaay before they're mature for it. The clothes, music, tv shows all promote sexuality.

Let kids be kids damnit. Do you know how hard it is to buy jeans for my 12 year old daughter that doesn't show butt crack when they bend over? Damn low riders.

"To some parents, video games are full of unknowable dangers. While researching for Grand Theft Childhood, parents we spoke with in focus groups often bemoaned the fact that they didn’t know how to use game controls - and felt unequipped to supervise or limit video game play. Of course, parents don’t want their children drinking alcohol, but that’s a more familiar risk."

And extant. Alcohol can damage children. No amount or type of porn or videogame could ever harm a child of any age in any way. Censors are enemies of mankind and must be executed for their crimes.

You just caught Internet AIDS? I'd assume by now you'd be in the last stage of the disease, with your interneT-cells almost obliterated, open sores covering your body and Internet cum still dripping from your gaping Internet asshole.

Jealousy will get you nowhere. Now worship me, mortal pile of junk DNA!

>> ^blankfist:
^I think I just caught 'Internet AIDS' reading another one of thinker247's self-masturbatory comments. his subtext: "me, I'm funny, me, aren't I clever, me."

But when it comes to Movies its the reverse, violence is okay but OH MY GOD NO SEX EVAR.

To all of you gamers who waste countless hours blowing away virtual space aliens, terrorists and the undead, I have one question for you:

When is the last time you've killed a REAL person? When is the last time you've felt the spray of warm blood on your arms from a freshly severed jugular vain? Or smelled the subtle blend of lye and rotting flesh from that dead hobo in the garage? Or heard the muffled, useless cries for pity from that kidnapped heiress in your basement dungeon? Or seen the gentle artistic drip, drip, drip of blood off the side of a boxcar? Or tasted the tender succulence of a fresh human ear, seasoned with olive oil and oregano?

If you can't remember any of these sensations, then gaming is interfering with your life and you have a serious problem. So put down that Atari joystick controller pad and get back into the 'game' of life.

Two cents worth considering-The time wasted by children, teens, and fucking adults, sitting in front of a television (other people's programming) is dwarfed only by the time wasted in front of a Telescreen attached to a fucking X Box, Playstation, or a goddamn computer mmorpg....socialization is the issue for me, and modern society's creating some Fuuuuucked up personality disorders and functionally bereft addditions.....cloistered in small huddles in dingy fucking living rooms, dysfunctional children from dysfunctional parents, feed their minds this craptacular, ocular and aural shit, in unhealthy amounts.....notwithstanding, the subject of the hours of meditation on images of carnage or of planting seeds in fairy-land fer crissakes, is a mind-numbing, and counter-productive romp for a mind already running at a limited capacity, unexercized and inna modus of atrophy and abandonment......So yeah, fucking video games, are fucking toxic, in the amounts most of the fans, proponents, and defenders of the things tend to absorb....fer crissakes, get creative ya cretins.....

If you think my assessment s wrong, yer a fucking idiot, and your pathetic arguments fall like a limp dick onna geriatric.....

as a parent i think i would be more worried about the bullshit statistics and pseudoscience my kids will be exposed to.

Gorillaman did you actually say that porn doesn't harm children?? I must have misunderstood.

---------

Why is everyone ok with kids (and yes, teenagers count as KIDS) having sex? Let them be children for christs sake! They have a hard enough time dealing with their bodies after puberty, why help complicate their young lives further? Help mature their minds with education and wisdom first.


Promiscuity is not healthy for a child for obvious reasons. Don't rob their childhoods.

Once they have become adults and left home and they are capable of taking responsibility for their lives is when it's time for them to have sex.

teenagers are still children

Sorry Choggie, I let my kids play videogames on the weekends if they've done their studies first. Guess I'm a fucking idiot.

>> ^swampgirl:
Gorillaman did you actually say that porn doesn't harm children?? I must have misunderstood.

I didn't only say that it doesn't, I said it couldn't. The only possible result of a child viewing pornography is a broadening of their understanding of the world and themselves, and the growth of their mind.

btw, 12 is more than old enough for the level of sexual behavior you're describing in your daughter.

Everything in moderation SG, I am speaking of the extremes, I play the damn things ever once inna while, too.....How about playing a MMORPG for 3-6 hrs daily, when not watching television, or using it to drive the X-box?? Combined with a palrty fat and sodium rich diet, and the limited physical activity that accompanies this lifestyle, and about 8 hrs in a public school???...Then you end up with an adult that is worth fuck-all.....unhealthy, insectoid if their lucky, able to leap from paycheck to paycheck, in a spirit bound......I suggest more teens go camping, get naked, and eat mushrooms, and that young adults who find themselves out in their own for the first time, completely divorce themselves from any forms of media that they do not program themselves, and for crissakes, read some esoteric literature or reference.....Bone up on the planetary experience ya cretins, make some waves!!

Fucking team fortress, fucking GTA, fucking imbeciles.......Stretch Yer Brains OUT...these "skills" you have are useless indulgences in hind-brain tunnels, and deleterious to the very nature of being....

>> The only possible result of a child viewing pornography is a broadening of their understanding of the world and themselves, and the growth of their mind.

that is fucking ridiculous. You are advocating compulsory viewing of pornography in schools. I realise you might be serious, but that doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

Kids get freaked out and get deep pathways burned into their brains even from one brief image. If you think we should start showing porn to kids, my question is "which film, and at what age do we start?"
Interested to know your answer. Please link to the film and when you have your own kids, please post a clip of you all watching porn together so we can see how we should be broadening our kids' minds.

HAWT. I think I need to change my underwear.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
To all of you gamers who waste countless hours blowing away virtual space aliens, terrorists and the undead, I have one question for you:
When is the last time you've killed a REAL person? When is the last time you've felt the spray of warm blood on your arms from a freshly severed jugular vain? Or smelled the subtle blend of lye and rotting flesh from that dead hobo in the garage? Or heard the muffled, useless cries for pity from that kidnapped heiress in your basement dungeon? Or seen the gentle artistic drip, drip, drip of blood off the side of a boxcar? Or tasted the tender succulence of a fresh human ear, seasoned with olive oil and oregano?
If you can't remember any of these sensations, then gaming is interfering with your life and you have a serious problem. So put down that Atari joystick controller pad and get back into the 'game' of life.

>> ^MINK:
You are advocating compulsory viewing of pornography in schools.

I don't remember suggesting that every positive childhood experience should be part of already bloated curricula. Do you have fond memories of your first kiss? Do you think schools should enforce compulsory make-out sessions? Video games also improve children's minds in any number of ways, but need not appear in the classroom. Would both porn and games make a fine addition to any school's library? Yes.

Statistically the more video games a kid plays the less likely they are to be having sex

I think everything needs to be done in moderation. Spend your life with your nose in the books and you're missing out on a lot in life, spend it in the middle of the woods, playing sports, on the internet etc etc, you limit your exposure to different things in life. My favorite are the bar flies, who think they have a life, yet they don't know how to have a good time outside of being drunk, smoking and reminiscing with their friends about the last time they were at a bar smoking and getting drunk.

Porn in a children's library... along with Dr. Seuss, The Railway Children and the Little House series?

Gorillaman that is sick. I'm sorry, but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. In what possible way could that edify the mind of a child other than to make them curious into experimenting in ways they are not ready for?

There's nothing bad about the naked human body being displayed tastefully in works of art.. but porn???

You are a fool. I'm not insulting you, I'm sorry.. I'm just plainly saying you're a foolish man.

This isn't even worth debating (the poll in question) as it's YET ANOTHER of the endless slew of horrendously biased 'polls' that are sent to publications these days.

This one's slant? It's a poll conducted by the website http://www.whattheyplay.com, and article on the very site... and what is that site? Well, a site purely for parents who are concerned about what video games their kids play.

Hence the sample population is already that sort of person AND the sort who is prone to looking for 3rd party help (such as this website), RATHER than just enforcing rules on what their kids can and can't play.

It has No baring on reality AT ALL.

This goes in the bin with "85% of singles say that online dating is perfectly acceptable... says poll conducted by online dating site 'youpayustodate.com'", and '79% of people think that cosmetic surgery is fine in today's age... says poll conducted by one of the largest plastic surgeons around".

It's all fluff, all meaningless, all drivel.

Pay of no mind and use your own common sense.

>> ^gorillaman: No amount or type of porn or videogame could ever harm a child of any age in any way. Censors are enemies of mankind and must be executed for their crimes.


What deranged world do you live in where you believe that nothing a child sees can do any harm to them?

A child seeing hardcore sex involving the sort of degrading shit that goes on in so much mainstream porn these days WILL cause the child to start having very poor ideas of a woman's place in the world.

Violent video games and movies etc. DO cause kids to act out more violently in their play (I know, I see it in our kids and others when they've seen something moderately violent), and therefore has had an effect on how they see things.

KIDS ARE affected by these things.

This should never mean that adults should be banned from partaking in any of them, but KIDS have not yet learned to contextualize these things and do not know how to properly understand what they're seeing.

You sir, should never raise a child, ever.

Unless you someday come to understand that we are formed so very much by our very early years and our experiences and treatment during this time. If we are exposed to constant images of violence and degrading treatment of women, how the fuck do you think we're going to act when we grow up?

Your thoughts are that seeing or interacting with ANYTHING does NOTHING to you then?

Riiight.

>> ^swampgirl:
Porn in a children's library... along with Dr. Seuss, The Railway Children and the Little House series?
Gorillaman that is sick. I'm sorry, but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. In what possible way could that edify the mind of a child other than to make them curious into experimenting in ways they are not ready for?


I've never seen a single piece of evidence to suggest porn might be bad for children. It's rare for anyone to even specify the kind of damage they believe it would do. All of my experiences with pornography, childhood and otherwise, have been entirely positive and as far as I can tell so have everybody else's.

Seeing porn at an early age would educate children about their bodies and their function; if the child is old enough to feel sexual desire it would identify and perhaps relieve that urge; and by providing explicit knowledge of sex at an early age it might immunise the child against some of the bullshit with which our society has surrounded that simple act. Your concerns for the child's safety are misguided - it's always safer to be enlightened than ignorant.

I believe you are ignorant of the maturation process of your own species. For example you are astonished and indignant that twelve year-olds engage in sexual display behaviour, which is wholly normal and healthy at that age. Children have an ever-developing sexuality, and they both enjoy and benefit from the opportunity to understand and address it.

>> ^gorillaman:
I've never seen a single piece of evidence to suggest porn might be bad for children. It's rare for anyone to even specify the kind of damage they believe it would do. All of my experiences with pornography, childhood and otherwise, have been entirely positive and as far as I can tell so have everybody else's.

Really? You haven't even bothered to look into anything have you. An example of the severe harm it can cause can be read here

Melbourne , 1991: a 6-year-old girl met a 10-year-old boy after school and was by him led - without coercion or violence - to “the back of a vacant flat”. She later explained to police that the boy had “rooted” her, inserted his “dick” into her mouth, and then sodomized her. The boy did not contest her account. Police gave evidence that in his home were “about 50 pornographic magazines”. (An education comes in many guises.) The Crown Prosecutor commented: “Each of the sexual acts the boy inflicted on his tiny victim were graphically depicted in close-up color ... in those magazines.”

So let me get this straight.... You are either saying you were shown porn as a child with no ill effects or you have been involved somehow in sharing porn with children and they seem fine to you. This is what you have to go on?

One sharing porn with children and encouraging them to explore their sexuality however they see fit makes he or she a child molester plain and simple. Hell, child molesters are doing us a public service then.

"ignorant of the maturation process of your own species" How pretentious

No GM, a wise parent is very aware that their child is curious about their own bodies and others bodies.. a wise parent teaches them appropriate boundaries. They never shame a child but encourages them to ask questions. But we frame those answers to fit the child's maturity level.

And when that child reaches puberty, they are TOLD about sex from their parents.... not shown porn! They are taught to be proud and respectful of their bodies (and OTHERS), that masturbation is fine (and private) and sexual experimentation should wait until they are much MUCH older.

Yes, teenagers want to have sex but that doesn't mean they should! Sex is not just recreation...it's procreating and kids are not prepared for that responsibility.

I can't believe I'm actually having to explain this to another adult.

spoco,

To the entirety of your first post I need only say that kids get all kind of stupid ideas, they're transient and part of the learning process, while adults are responsible for their own actions.

Your second post does not account for the frequent quasi-sexual encounters, both coercive and otherwise that occur between children of that age. The type of incident described in your linked article, is, while not typical nevertheless relatively common without exposure to pornography. I doubt it was particularly deleterious to the development of either child. The obvious over-reaction of the police probably was.

I commend your attitude to nudity in the way you raise your children. Have they seen you get erections, engage in intercourse and ejeculate? Then they remain ignorant of some of the functions of their body.

edit: I realise I assumed you were a dude, if you're not you can still get the point.

argh, you're tag-teaming me.

>> ^swampgirl:
I can't believe I'm actually having to explain this to another adult.


That's because you've never questioned it. You have no idea why you believe the things that you do.

No, it's just I'm floored. I've never once came across an opinion such as yours that didn't belong to a pervert.

Consider it questioned. My opinions stand. And why? I have two very good reasons why I believe the things that I do. (and they both are asleep)

GM, I don't know if you have children (I hope you don't, sorry) but it's been my experience being responsible for them has made me revise my values time and time again, cause I only get one shot at raising them and I want to do the best I can. It's all anyone can do.



In reply to this comment by gorillaman:
argh, you're tag-teaming me.

>> ^swampgirl:
I can't believe I'm actually having to explain this to another adult.


That's because you've never questioned it. You have no idea why you believe the things that you do.

>> ^gorillaman:
spoco,
To the entirety of your first post I need only say that kids get all kind of stupid ideas, they're transient and part of the learning process, while adults are responsible for their own actions.

You just don't GET IT. The things that kids see and do when they're young are not all 'fleeting' and transient, it all accumulates, it all forms who you are for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. Please, do tell us all your wealth of experience that allows you to make your insanely ill thought out claims? Do you have first hand experience of children being exposed to porn that has lead to them being rounded individuals. Do you have children of your own? (Not trying to say that only people with children can discuss child rearing, but you're making some pretty damn ridiculous assertions as to how kids should be reared.) Have you actually had sex?


Your second post does not account for the frequent quasi-sexual encounters, both coercive and otherwise that occur between children of that age. The type of incident described in your linked article, is, while not typical nevertheless relatively common without exposure to pornography. I doubt it was particularly deleterious to the development of either child. The obvious over-reaction of the police probably was.
Oh for fuck's sake. You don't think a SIX YEAR OLD being fucked, giving head and having anal sex is going to do NOTHING TO HER? Fucking hell you are warped. I'm telling you it is NOT relatively common, please do provide us with facts and figures to back up ANY of your wild claims. I'm sorry but you are just spouting UTTER, UTTER garbage. To think that a child being fucked in a disused building is going to have no long term affects is... my god, you are truly oblivious to so much in life.

You are not worth talking to any further on this topic as you have zero, zero, ZERO idea of how sex affects people.

I commend your attitude to nudity in the way you raise your children. Have they seen you get erections, engage in intercourse and ejeculate? Then they remain ignorant of some of the functions of their body.


What is your fucking obsession with kids having to know EVERYTHING right now? Right, out of the womb... here's dad fucking your mum again... here's dad beating a few people up, here's a porn collection for nighttime reading.

Seriously.

You have zero idea how kids see the world, or should. ZERO.

Are you asking me questions that you want me to answer, or are you serious that you don't want to continue the discussion?

>> ^gorillaman:
Are you asking me questions that you want me to answer, or are you serious that you don't want to continue the discussion?


Yeah, ok, I wrote mutually exclusive things there, but that's because your views are so insanely non backed up with anything I couldn't think you would have anything else to say that would make me want to write anything else.

But, no, do, please answer them, I am intrigued as to how you have come to your views on child raising.

Sure, but it'll have to wait as I'm going to bed.

edit: and I'm back.

>> ^spoco2:
You just don't GET IT. The things that kids see and do when they're young are not all 'fleeting' and transient, it all accumulates, it all forms who you are for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. Please, do tell us all your wealth of experience that allows you to make your insanely ill thought out claims? Do you have first hand experience of children being exposed to porn that has lead to them being rounded individuals. Do you have children of your own? (Not trying to say that only people with children can discuss child rearing, but you're making some pretty damn ridiculous assertions as to how kids should be reared.) Have you actually had sex?

I won't be swayed from the belief that adults are responsible for themselves. This is not only a fundamental fact of our existence, that we make frequent conscious decisions about how to act, it's also the essential foundation of every possible functioning society.
I have first-hand experience of being a child, which is sufficient. I saw my first porn mag when I was pretty young, before I'd learned to masturbate certainly. I enjoyed reading it and put it away when I was done. I didn't freak out or suffer deep psychological scarring.
I don't have children. I have had sex.

>> ^spoco2:
Oh for fuck's sake. You don't think a SIX YEAR OLD being fucked, giving head and having anal sex is going to do NOTHING TO HER? Fucking hell you are warped. I'm telling you it is NOT relatively common, please do provide us with facts and figures to back up ANY of your wild claims. I'm sorry but you are just spouting UTTER, UTTER garbage. To think that a child being fucked in a disused building is going to have no long term affects is... my god, you are truly oblivious to so much in life.

A little imprecision in my wording there. By common I mean relative to its perceived frequency. I'm talking single digit percentages reporting each of penetrative and coercive sexual play. If you give it a moment's consideration you shouldn't find that too surprising - probably everyone here has participated in sexual play as a child, of course the level of that play will vary. Hell, even just by chance you can expect some dicks to make it into some mouths.

I think you're gigantically exaggerating what actually happened in your example. This girl didn't 'give head', she had a little boy's dick in her mouth. She didn't get fucked or have anal sex, she had a little boy's dick in her vagina and anus, probably briefly and ineffectually. As I've been saying, it's on the extreme end of the natural discovery process.

>> ^spoco2:
What is your fucking obsession with kids having to know EVERYTHING right now? Right, out of the womb... here's dad fucking your mum again... here's dad beating a few people up, here's a porn collection for nighttime reading.

My comments have displayed no such attitude. Kids don't have to learn about sex at an early age any more than they have to, say, learn chess, but they would be improved by either education.

"tag teaming".. damnit if you're not baiting me. This isn't a light little debate topic.

Your "opinions" are depraved. You do not cherish the welfare of innocent life that does not ask for your brand of education and will not thank you for it when they are grown.

We all may not be religious, but if there is anything that is universally sacred, our children is.

I've made the mistake of attempting to persuade a fool to reason. I'm done.

err... did i just read that the best way to raise your children is to ejaculate in front of them?

gorillaman you either made an exaggerated comment which you are now trying to dig yourself out of, or you are actually fucking insane.

you've seen no evidence that porn harms kids? oh boy. i guess there's no underage pregnancy ever resulting from exposure to porn. I guess you think if we all ejaculated in front of our kids, the problem of teenage pregnancy would disappear? Fucking hell. I am beginning to think we should find your address and call the police... but i guess you are just playing around and a little embarassed at your clumsy exaggeration. Right?

-

I stand by every word.

Wow. If GM thinks that nutting in front of your kids is beneficial, I bet GM will nut on them.

Well, that's it... your views are completely insane, and you will either learn that in the future by discovering that you were grossly wrong in your thinking, or hopefully not, by putting them into practice and discovering the deep damage you do to children by acting in that way.


And man... to try and make little of a couple of kids, of ages 6 and 10 engaging in sex is just.... WOW. You are really, and truly misguided.

And now I really have finished with this topic, there's no talking you around as you are obviously somewhat deranged.

kids definitely should learn about sex from an early age, rather than find out for themselves when they get an std at 13.

but the lesson probably shouldn't be "daddy ejaculates like this! watch!"

can we agree on that? can we? huh?

Replace "shouldn't" with "needn't" and we agree.