How about I arm myself with a rifle, then you come at me with a taser?

Really, you don't understand that phrase? It means what you do may be done back to you, and you can't complain. That's not good when part of what you do is kill people.

Which nutcase do you mean, the actually violent nutcase with a gun, or the suspect?

Yes, they had that information because 30 seconds before he had the gun to his own head, and they broadcast that info on the radio.

There were no people near where he was walking, the cops had the block surrounded. He had already walked by a number of people in the area without incident, and none can bee seen on either video in the direction he was going.

No surprise you have to be informed that there is a middle, rational ground between walking right up to the armed suspect and running him over at over 40mph with enough force to blast through a cement wall.
You know those things called Tasers...there's a reason cops have them...same with bean bag bullets. Those are tools meant to be used, or at least TRIED, not ignored or dismissed because they don't work 100% of the time...if that's the standard, bullets don't work 100% of the time either so why ever use them?

And update to the news is that the video shows the officer planting the taser near the body.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/04/07/3644139/sc-cop-charged-with-murder/

*promote

'Does not necessarily mean they should die'. Wow, this is some serious PR work. They're going to Ferguson with it first. Hmmm? No one's ever going to use that. It's not practical for one. If they wanted non-lethal, I believe there's already rubber bullets, batons, and tasers.

Yes, I understand they are taught to shoot to kill, I just think it's wrong to do so.
If it was an unavoidable situation of a single officer against a single offender, I would agree. Since there were 3, one of them could have safely moved to trying non-lethal force, with a double helping of deadly force instantly backing him up if it doesn't work. If not taser, bean bags, sticky foam, flash bang, etc. They have many means of non-lethal force that work almost every time. That should be the normal, daily way of doing it. That's why they call for backup. If they're just going to all shoot to kill anyway, why not just save time and money and do it alone? If they're only going to try lethal force, can we stop paying for all that non-lethal equipment we give them?
Shooting rapid fire and randomly in the direction of a 'perp' puts the public at risk. The first 5+ shots all missed him and flew down the street, I'm curious if anyone was hit.
If they don't even attempt non-lethal means of halting the criminal, there WAS a much better alternative. If lethal force is acceptable in any unknown situation, it's become a war of 'us vs them' where any police stop may end in one or both parties being killed because the cop wasn't sure he was safe, that's not a good outcome. When there are multiple officers, at least one should always TRY non-lethal force. If it's appropriate to have multiple guns drawn and pointed at a human's head, it's appropriate to try to taser them or bean bag them before shooting a full clip of live rounds.

If 'potential threat' is the only metric needed to justify homicide, every cop on the beat could be legally shot. They are all armed, and known to shoot to kill at the slightest provocation. Killing them would be self defense in every case if that was the only thing needed to make it acceptable, as they are all not just 'potential threats', but actual deadly threats known to be armed and homicidal.
That's why that theory doesn't work in my eyes. It leads to more killings, which leads to more fear, which leads to more killings, which leads to more fear.... Cops are trained and armed and given bullet proof vests, cut proof gloves/sleeves, and have massive backup. If they intentionally put themselves in a position where they are alone against an unknown threat, then kill out of fear of the situation they put themselves in, how is that not inappropriate? I really don't get it.
(I do get that sometimes (rarely) it's unavoidable, but most times a little patience and a little less 'contempt of cop- punishable by death' would diffuse situations that police instead often escalate into homicide because of a complete lack of patience or empathy, or out of anger because they were 'disrespected' by not having their commands followed instantly)

That would seem to be common sense except that same textbook instructs officers to only shoot to kill; if they fire, they are only supposed to do so to kill because doing otherwise may result in the perp still being able to harm them or others. (That's why I'm always bumped in movies and TV shows when a cop shoots a bad guy just once.)

Any other non-lethal uses of force could not be used in this kind of situation for that same reason. If they are approaching an unknown subject who is acting erratically and on the move and may be armed (meaning they are not proven to be unarmed), it's understandable [to me] they can't risk just attempting to disable him when doing so could put themselves or bystanders in danger if the guy pulls a gun and starts shooting.

Non-lethal means of disablement don't always disable a person. I've seen suspects get hooks directly and fully into the skin for a tasering, but be completely unaffected. Adrenaline and PCP work wonders in making you impervious to pain.

It's always easiest after the fact to assume there was a much better alternative, but in those precious few moments where you're concerned for the safety of yourself and everyone around you, the options that will guarantee that safety are limited.

Of course these kinds of things are debatable and always subject to ideas about what the cops could have or should have done and what the suspect did and could have or should have done, but the only certainty is that there was a potential threat and they took the only action that could guarantee that that threat was neutralized.

I could go along with that, but I don't think all 3 cops needed to empty their clips (or close to it) shooting to kill, especially when NO one saw a weapon, just arms flailing. That's text book definition of 'excessive use of force' in my eyes.

It's outrageous to me that not one of them had a taser, baton, or pepper spray out, and instead they all had their guns out ready to kill. It's inhuman to me that they always seem to think it's proper to kill rather than disable, and worse that they are supported in that contention by fellow officers AND the law (in many cases).

It's also outrageous and quite telling to me that they initially shoot at him 5 times as he's running/walking away with his hands completely visible. Apparently all those rounds missed the target and flew down the street where there were many bystanders. Absolutely no excuse for that part. That alone should get all 3 fired, or at least on desk duty until they all 3 pass a gun safety class.

All that said, I expect you are correct and this will be seen as 'justified' because...he had hands that might have had a gun in them? Sad but true.

I'm really starting to think we need to do what England did and stop allowing street beat cops to carry guns and only special weapon and tactics guys should have them, and they should be trained to not use them unless needed. These terrified bullies running around our country armed to the teeth with an immunity shield protecting them from consequence is not working.

From my point of view, your argument is asinine.
He (Lantern) made a definitive statement based on some witnesses and evidence by saying 'credible evidence' (which strongly implys that only the witness and evidence/interpretations that agreed with the police version is credible, and all others are not), I pointed out that far more witnesses had disputed that version of events, and the evidence is up for interpretation, not definitive.
You also discount (nearly) all local witnesses (and go on to insult them for no reason, or is it just racism that makes you label them 'low intelligence'?), then you try to make a point about group impressions using a group that absolutely DOES lie, in the performance of their duties they are TRAINED to lie to get information and/or compliance, and some are just natural liars to boot, and also a group that's historically well known as being incredibly over-defensive of their own, even when it's insanely obvious their own are in the wrong. I can't fathom how you think that makes a good point. (also not sure why you bring race into it again)

Another interpretation of the head shot evidence is that he was falling, having been shot multiple times already, and was shot in the top of the head on the way down. That was what more than one eye witness said happened. Are you implying that they were (low intelligence) criminalist masterminds that instantly knew what false story could still be born out by evidence, colluded, and gave that version? There was no gun shot residue on him, so he was not within arms length to grab anyone. That's fairly certain.

Yes, the DA certainly seemed to throw the case away. He did not act as prosecutor, (giving only evidence and interpretation that implies guilt,) but instead gave the jury all 'evidence' (including that which implied innocence, and allowed the jury to interpret it), allowed 'defense testimony' (without question, cross, or dispute), and gave insane legal instructions in order to confuse (like giving them the long invalidated law, then last minute telling them it might or might not apply, but don't worry why, it's not a law class). That's all totally abnormal, so the grand jury process was clearly abused by the DA with an aim to not get a trial. I'm fairly certain that's how most people see it too. It seemed fairly blatant.

I would agree that the more officers the better seems logical, but no longer holds true if ALL the officers over react (like 8 people on top of one man for an infraction, or never trying tasers because they 'might not stop the aggressor', even when there's already 10 officers with guns drawn). If officers tried the least amount of force required FIRST, rather than jump to the maximum allowed instantly, everyone would be happier. Sadly they do not.

If the feeling in the community (local and at large) was that this was an isolated incident, no amount of cajoling by a single distraught parent would cause rallies or riots. Instead they're happening across the country, and yet you blame a grieving father rather than the aggrieved's stated issue(s)/targets.

I'm glad that at least in the Garner case, you can see the injustice of killing an unarmed man (or even 'just' brutally attacking him) over such a minor infraction.

That's absolutely not what's been reported. The reports have repeatedly said his hyoid was severely injured and he asphyxiated.
Also, we can not take the word of the public coroner when it comes to officer involved death. Like the DA, they work with the cops daily, and bend over backwards to 'help' them repeatedly. Independent prosecutors and coroners are needed on EVERY officer involved death, without them we'll see you all as members of a deadly, powerful gang of thugs.
Cops should have TALKED to him instead of deciding 'he's not complying fast enough, get him fellas' and dog piling on him, starting from behind with a hold specifically disallowed by the department. (I'm glad you didn't try to say he wasn't choked, because that would just be ridiculous). That's really overboard for someone selling loosies, and was really, obviously about contempt of cop.

It might be a good idea for them to not laugh and joke about it while the body is still lying on the sidewalk and the family is filming them too, btw. (I've seen the extended video)

Perhaps he should have cooperated, but in no way would that ensure he'd be alive. The 77 year old man cooperated fully, (when a cop just nastily grabs at your papers for no reason and without saying a thing, pulling away is expected and acceptable) and was beaten and tasered for his trouble. Cooperation simply means the cops won't be hurt, not the citizen. Many many people are injured and killed cooperating with police and in full custody yearly. You somehow put the blame 100% on them and 0% on the police that have them under their control and have the duty to protect them. The rest of us have lost all trust in cops lately, and we feel if you have a duty you should perform it.

EDIT: How did 'cooperating' work out for this guy?
http://videosift.com/video/South-Carolina-cop-shoots-man-for-getting-license

Intro (Sage Francis):
Right about now, the SFR court is in full effect!
Judge Sage presiding in the case of the People vs. The Police Department.
Prosecuting attorneys are: Toki Wright, Jasiri X and B motherfuckin’ Dolan.
Order! Order! Order! B. Dolan, take the motherfuckin’ stand.
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
(Dolan: You goddamn right.)
Then why don’t you tell everyone what the fuck they have the right to do?

Verse 1 
(B. Dolan):
Film the Police. Run a tape for the underclass!
Get the face, name and number on the badge.
They flash, we flash back when they act disorderly.
React accordingly and capture all that we see…
Nightstick, Zip-ties, and Tasers.
Think they’re licensed for type vicious behavior.
Make a tight fist with a video trained toward the Pigs,
Like this. They trip & you make ‘em famous.
Explain to a Judge the bounds you oversteppin’.
2011 time to the change our method.
We aim lenses at the State’s weapon,
‘Til they remember whose goddamn streets they’re protecting.
They’d rather see me in a cell
Than me and my cell with a different story to tell.
Camcorder by the dash. Next time you get stopped,
Reach for the celly if you wanna shoot a cop.
On a public sidewalk, you can tape what you see,
Or film from your window with a view of the street!
Neighborhood Crime Watch, we police the Police.
They can’t arrest the whole community.
Because the streets clock. These cops occupying blocks,
Harassing the homeless with batons, pulling glocks.
They stop lawful protests and let off shots…
Abuse prostitutes and misuse power they got.
In memory of the victims who are never forgot,
We’ve gotta’ exercise our right to shed light in the dark.
There is an army on the march that doesn’t want you to watch.
You’ve got a weapon in your pocket whether you know it or not.
We, the people, are the only real media we got.
Let’s protect one another from the fucking goon squad.
Fascism’s coming to the U.S.A.
Eyo, Sage, I got something to say!
Verse 2 (Toki Wright):
Film the police! It’s time to make it our priority.
You see these fools are in abuse of their authority.
Crack a fist or you crack a whip.
But that ain’t power you coward, you beat a man with two shackled wrists.
So put their names up on a list next to an asterisk.
Next time you see ‘em blast a clip, then you flash a flick.
Attach a video and pic to your master list.
Be on the news at 6. YouTube views legit.
The cops watch us, so we gotta have the Cop Watchers.
Been in fear of law so long, so now it’s not awkward.
But what is law when it’s wrong. When you slam us on the floor.
Naw, this ain’t World Wrestling Entertainment Raw.
This is Edutainment, y’all. Got a call from B. Dolan.
You try to squabble with Johnny Law and get your meat swollen.
Why you think Bobby and Huey P. were heat holding?
You better load the footage up and get to key stroking.
And while you at it, send one off to the administration,
It’s indicating, all the physical intimidation.
It’s been too long they said to “bear with us.”
That’s when I run up on your caravan and rip off all your D.A.R.E. stickers.
This here is near Hitler’s; weirder than some mere tickets…
You feel privileged ’til your wife get her brassiere lifted.
You disappear quick as Hoffa if you piss a copper,
Off ya’ til you get a Channel 7 News helicopter.
Violence hides in a code of silence, tyrants hide in an alliance,
Quiet or be left somewhere, or get swept inside it.
It’s Goliath vs. a bigger giant.
Got us pulling over so far we ran a curb and hit a hydrant.
It’s systematic how the system has its symptoms,
Of the democratic law that’s been flawed since the pilgrims landed.
So now tell me what you wanna do? Next time you see the boys in blue,
You cock your camera back and point and shoot.

Verse 3 (Jasiri X):
Film the police! I got the Cannon 7D.
Highest definition for when they try to arrest and lynch ‘em,
Then lie and protest the whippin’, not serve and protect the victims.
Their murders, threats and hitmen…observe ‘em and let the witness be
The iphone. Never let bygones be bygones.
Get your flip cam before they get in the whip and ride on.
It’s vital ’cause our survival could depend on a video going viral,
With more viewers than American Idol.
Instead of having to bury a child who…
The cops shot ’cause they thought they carried a rifle.
Then the same cops will go to court and swear on a bible,
And smile to show the teeth that they’re preparing to lie through.
Whether Crips or Piru ,Vice Lords or Gangsta Disciples,
Make sure your camera lens gets an eyeful.
And they liable to try and confiscate it.
Better hold on to that shit like you’re constipated.
‘Cause they’ll pretend them injuries are not related,
Like, “When we arrived we saw him dive head first off the pavement.”
So keep the mini cam stashed in the dash of your mini van.
They’ll crash and smash on any man.
Pull out your Blackberry ’cause cops will take a shot at your black berry,
‘Til we see another black buried.
Don’t act scary, ’cause they’ll empty the gat on ya’,
Stand over your body just to sprinkle the crack on ya’.
Police attacking ya’. Don’t want to see they reflections like Dracula.
But camera’s capture ya’.
Too busy using your flashlight to batter us,
To notice John Singleton was my passenger.
So point, click and shoot they asses,
It’s the only way to get the real truth to the masses.
Jasiri X, I’m making movies like Spike Lee.
I won’t be a law and order special victim like Ice T.

It's hard to say from the angle of the video, but it looked like he was going to walk away, then a cop called out something and he moved back towards the officers. At that moment someone opens fire. You only hear like one or two shots and then suddenly all the police are firing.

Just based on this video, I would guess that the shooting was ruled as justified because he walked towards the officers (although it's unclear if that was because the officers ordered him to do so). My guess is everyone is tense, and when the first shot is fired everyone kind of just piles on and opens fire too.

It's a tough situation. It really looked to me like the cops were trying to de-escalate before things got out of hand. They called the dog back and some of them lowered their weapons and moved out of a firing stance. I think it was the fact that the guy moved erratically (suddenly stepping back two or three steps like he was going to leave and then suddenly moving back towards the cops a couple of steps) that caused them to open fire.

Dunno, this doesn't look like an open and shut abuse case to me. He had a knife, he wasn't acting in a rational manner, and he moved towards the cops. Legally, they were within their rights to shoot (if I'm perceiving the situation correctly).

Now, should they all have just backed off? I dunno. If they back up too far he could make a run for it and possibly reach an innocent bystander before they could catch up.

Should they use a taser? Again, I dunno. The range on those things isn't great, meaning someone would have had to get close to the knife-wielding dude. And if you don't get a precise hit, then knife-wielding dude is not only in range to counter-attack, but is probably royally pissed as well.

Tough situation. I feel for the family. It's unfortunate it went down like it did. I don't see how the cops could have won here. Sending the dog in to take him down seems inhumane to both him and the dog. Trying to down him with rubber bullets or beanbag shotgun rounds could have severely injured and killed him and probably weren't available to the officers anyway.

Damn shame.

(Also, amazed this video hasn't sparked a snuff debate in discussions yet. This isn't a news video of the event, it's the raw footage of a man being gunned down. I'll leave it to others to decide if that's against Sift guidelines or not).

WTF?!? This is one of the most obvious cases of police brutality and just down right murder. I love how cops somehow never seem to know how or WHEN to use tasers. How much of an idiot do you have to be?

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Needs little tasers.