believe the idea is that all of us do or don't engage in things that we don't necessarily enjoy (or enjoy). either for legality or decency or the stir, it causes...

- breastfeeding
- pistol wearing in town
- hats at weddings/funerals/churches
- shutting off cells at the same and more
- wheels on busy sidewalks
- not heckling the priest's sermon ("YOU SUCK FATHER!")*

some of these are up to the person, some not as bad as others, but common sense SHOULD guide sane people.

'tho if COVID becomes a public health crisis (ala Black Death-esque) they'll find where their freedom meets real oppression (Thyphoid Mary on a large scale).

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/youraba/2020/youraba-april-2020/law-guides-legal-approach-to-pandemic/

personally, the idea that I could end up killing someone quickly replaced my health concerns. if found someone died because wasn't wearing a mask - would kill me.

so, in short, hope any/or all of these blunts find themselves in a situation where their car won't start. and no one will help them 'til them mask up.

"just need a part!"
"not until you observe our policy of public health! here's a mask...and if you'd put on shoes and a shirt..."

bet they'd do it for their f'n car. but for little bobby or old man Thorney?

...hope a camel w/a huge lip blister kisses them straight on the mouth.

reminds me of a song...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFRDimvVimw

testify.



* Bobcat gag

Hey there. Devil's advocate here.

Should we tell people who eat poorly to fuck off, too? What about any people who go off of their doctor's advice?

Don't get me wrong, I'm heavily in your corner. I would say the pandemic is a special case, not because it takes up hospital beds unnecessarily (which most of them do since heart disease, the #1 killer, is a disease of lifestyle), but because it immediately puts others in danger, outside the hospital.

The question of freedom vs. public health is easy in this case, but when does it become overreach? On the other (very far) end of the spectrum is eugenics.

You are so delusional…Trump policies lost jobs, the only president since WW2 to have lost jobs over their tenure.

When Trump took office in Jan. 2017, U.S. employment was at 145.6 million. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics released its final jobs report before the Jan. 20 inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden. It shows in December there were 142.6 million employed Americans, down 3 million from Trump's own inauguration. Overall Trump had a -.5% job growth per year….absolutely disastrous….worst ever in living memory.

https://fortune.com/2021/01/11/us-economy-jobs-numbers-trump-compared-past-presidents-worst-record-since-hoover/

Please stop believing idiotic liars and grow up.

My portfolio has gone up over 25% since Biden took office, it lost around 8% in 4 years under Trump. It’s going to dip thanks to idiots ignoring public health and refusing vaccination, extending the pandemic indefinitely.

D’oh! Numbers are out….from Trump’s first to last month in office, GDP raised 1.6% per year, the worst since Hover in the Great Depression. So much for being an economic genius, he’s literally the worst on the economy in living history.

How many more ways will he be determined to have been literally the worst? Already judged the worst by lack of leadership, abundance of division, worst economically, worst at public health, worst at trade deals, worst on the environment, worst at telling the truth, worst at civility, worst/most criminal convictions of any administration, …..what’s left?

The Delta variant is just as infectious from the vaccinated as from the not vaccinated, but +-90% fewer vaccinated seem to catch it and at least 98% fewer require hospitalization. It is far more transmissible, and in the unvaccinated seems to have higher mortality rates than previous variants. Vaccinated and non vaccinated may be totally infectious but have no symptoms.
That means wearing a mask after getting vaccinated is still good science and proper public policy based on current knowledge. Masks protect others from the wearer , they don’t protect wearers from the unmasked sneezing or coughing. They aren’t signs of fear or weakness, they are signs of recognizing a civic responsibility, something the Right wing called a virtue before following Trump into the darkness.

If more people had gotten vaccinated, the delta variant might not have been a problem. Just like if more people had masked up and distanced early, COVID might not have been 1/10 the problem it has been. Now, thanks to anti science conspiracy theorists who refuse public health orders we have Delta and likely have an epsilon variant coming by fall and get to go back to full quarantine with no vaccines.


You don’t attack using germ warfare by infecting your own country. 🤦‍♂️

It totally agree, @eric3579. Who can be trusted? It's harder to know every day.

My take....
Jones is right about the science, false negatives imply you've never been exposed when you have been, so people believe they cannot transmit the virus when they may in fact be infectious, which can lead to reckless nondistancing behavior and infections because they assume they're "safe"... also even a good (not false) positive antibody test does not mean they have meaningful immunity nor does it mean they aren't infectious as this woman claims. It only means you've developed some detectable antibodies to the virus. Period. Both misconceptions are big concerns. "Which is bigger?" seems like a silly fight.

The problem is, no matter what the test says, people think it means they're safe to be around. A negative test...."I never had it so I can't spread it, gimme a kiss"...a positive test..."I had it but beat it so I'm now immune and can't spread it, gimme a kiss". Neither is correct.

I had the chicken pox twice. If a chicken pox antibody test existed, I would have tested positive after the first round and assumed I couldn't get it or transmit it afterwards, but that would have been wrong even though the results weren't a false positive. Instead, because people suck, my parents and teachers just assumed I was "safe" and sent me to school sick and may have caused an outbreak.

Both of her claims here rely on most people completely misunderstanding what the results really mean, and people completely ignoring the possibility of false results. Sadly that's proper to assume.

Interesting how she puts it, she says Jones wasn't asked to fudge any data, just maybe present it in a way that made Florida's public covid numbers look better in the run up to the election....or another way to say that is she was asked to fudge the data....if I recall she claimed she was instructed to hide large numbers of cases in categories not included in the public presentations with the intent to create a false perception of a major downturn in cases under the "open up and unmask" plan.

Wasn't the "private data" she's accused of handing to the press the unadulterated anonymous covid numbers....not really private as it's public data collected by the government for public health reasons... and not personal data as she implied. That's what I recall the charge being....maybe there's more.

The rest is unverifiable and /or personal tabloid stuff....like did they point the gun at her kids or just menace them with the guns, did she get pregnant with her student, etc. Not germane to her claims about Florida's verified misrepresentations, and inappropriate attacks against the messenger instead of the message, imo. Distasteful to me, but besides the point.

“This family”?
This isn’t one case, Bob. It’s department policy and has been for a long time.

Agreed, it SHOULD be a big payday for these families… unfortunately that’s at taxpayer, not the police’s pension fund’s, expense….but so far in the years of this practice if the victims got anything it doesn’t seem to have payed enough to get the local government to stop it, or enough to excuse blatant and rampant abusive harassment of law abiding citizens as standard policy, even a revenue generator.

How much is the daily harassment of your children, wife, co workers, family, friends, and business contacts at their work and in their homes late at night for years by dozens of aggressive armed men trespassing and peeping in windows and threatening arrest and continued harassment if they can’t come inside to “talk” at 3 am, all because they know you….without you ever being convicted of a crime….worth?….guaranteed none of the victims of this policy have been paid that much.

It is nice to know you at least say you don’t support DeSantis style policing…so I guess you don’t support his candidacy?

Also interesting you love to dismiss constant violent civil rights violations like this by just claiming the victims will get a huge settlement and that makes it ok (most don’t, police have immunity from all but the absolute worst illegal violations, they don’t even pay to repair the doors they destroy breaking in homes with no warrant or the pets they kill while trespassing and spying on citizens….not even for the innocent people they murder when breaking into their homes at 3 am, and when they are brought to account, they often fight cases for decades first, forcing the victims to sue them over and over and over and over....expensive lawsuits against city hall that most victims can't afford to start)….but when it’s a public health issue where they’re considering forcing you to not become a biological viral lab, stopping you from mutating new viruses to release in America, suddenly your rights to be dangerously idiotic and anti science are sacrosanct, no amount of money could make up for a little ouchie, fuck those other people you kill and disable.
Anti vaxers should not only be denied insurance, but also be forced to pay for treatment of their victims.

In two previous episodes of his podcast, March 16 and April 23, Kirk stated that he believed that the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions should self-quarantine. Outside of that, however, he has questioned the vast majority of public health proposals to limit community spread. On the Sunday edition of his podcast, Kirk said: “Do not force me to wear a mask, it’s that simple. I’m not gonna do it, I’m not.” ,then of course. His friend died. These idiots have killed thousands.

600000 dead thanks to pretending it’s a mild flu and ignoring it for months = “fake COVID fear”
4 dead in a hostile country = “spend as long as it takes to force Clinton to pay”

No punishment, just exclusion from society and commerce in self defense. When you morons start spreading the next variant that mutated in one of your obese bodies and we go back to full quarantine, I’ll be totally open to either get the shot or get shot….you’ll be murdering people in the name of ignorant obstinance.
What happened to “grandma is fine dying if you can go back to work”…now turned into “I’m not getting a shot so we can go back to work because no one pwomised me a wowweepop and I’m afwaid of getting owchied.”

Go door to door, any house with an unvaccinated occupant should get sealed and the names published, and breaking quarantine should be the death penalty anyone can inflict just like you idiots said the elderly would accept.
Definitely anyone unvaccinated should pay every dime of treatment at this point, right? You claim to be about personal responsibility, so lobby your representatives to give insurance companies and the fed the right to not pay for COVID treatment for unvaccinated people. 90% of you morons would try to get one today if that was the case.

Public health is not a personal choice as long as you live in a society. Leave society, then you can live in personal freedom on quarantine island.

Fact check.....
3,500,000 child cases * .008 mortality = 28000 dead children you fucking inhuman monster.
3,500,000 * 10% who have long term disabilities = 350,000 children disabled for life.
Pay up, your ilk being obstinately unsafe caused their disabilities, you should pay to support them for life just as if you were driving blindfolded because Trump said car bumpers make them safe in accidents and you ran over a few, leaving them to die in the streets because getting hurt by a car is fake news.



Well over 570000 dead Americans you Anti American enemy of the people.
32000000 cases * 10% long term side effects like severe permanent heart, lung, brain damage = 3,200,000 disabled people created.

I think it's fair to say most readers here hope you're next. No one is more deserving of infection, no one is more deserving of severe permanent disabilities, no one is less deserving of a vaccine or hospitalization. I hope your children bring it home day 1 when school restarts.

Ask Brazil how following your plan has worked....better yet, put your money where your mouth is and move there, unvaccinated, and let us know.

Fake news made too many ignorant morons fight against public health measures, costing us over 1/2 million deaths and well over $5 Trillion in unnecessary expenses that could ALL have been avoided with adult, serious leadership we sorely lacked for a full year plus until January.

Bob, you ARE fake news. Dangerous, deadly, and costly fake news.

BTW, it costs about an extra $2.2 million to raise a child with disabilities, and an EXTRA $3,175 to $5,853 per month for adults - keep in mind they mostly have no income and don't add to the gdp, so add the average $61,224 cost of living in the US and you have over $120000 per year per person (3200000 disabled so far) you get a recurring yearly cost of your "ignore the danger and get to work/school" plan cost of up to $3.84 e11 ($384,000,000,000) per year so far....an impossible cost to bear. Granted, not every person with permanent damage is totally disabled, so being generous assume only 10% are....still $38,400,000,000 PER YEAR at current average cost not including children. That doesn't include direct cost of hospitalization for covid, from $51,000 to $78,000, nor the loss in gdp from 3.2 million earners gone.
Fuck your $5 Trillion....most of which went to businesses.

Someone told me you needed a fact check

Here's the information he had available to him at the time

https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AAP%20and%20CHA%20-%20Children%20and%20COVID-19%20State%20Data%20Report%207.30.20%20FINAL.pdf


338,982 total child COVID-19 cases (cumulative) have happened
BEFORE he gives this press conference.

Then he explains that kids are "basically immune".


------------------------
------------------------


He made the claim so assertively https://www.cbsnews.com/news/facebook-twitter-trump-video-misinformation-removal-children-immune-coronavirus/ Facebook and Twitter removed it.


So, let's review with a quote from someone who cares about public health.

"Children as a group are clearly less impacted by this virus than adults, but to say they are almost immune does not provide a truthful message," said University of South Florida public health professor Dr. Marissa J. Levine.


"does not provide a truthful message...
"does not provide a truthful message...
"does not provide a truthful message...
"does not provide a truthful message...
"does not provide a truthful message...
"does not provide a truthful message...
"does not provide a truthful message...
"does not provide a truthful message...
"does not provide a truthful message...
"does not provide a truthful message...



Look, a good rule of thumb, just wait for that social media guy to start ranting, if he says "Fake news!" that's probably true.

If he says "Believe me" that's probably false.

Easy.



For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7elKHRjwc
Donald Trump: (00:42)
Our mortality rate is right now at a level that people don’t talk about, but it’s down tenfold, tenfold. So you look at deaths are way down from this horrible China virus,

Donald Trump: (03:52)
There was only one person that died that was under 18 years old in the state of New Jersey, and that was somebody I guess had a problem with perhaps diabetes or something else. But one person out of thousands of people, one person died who was under 18 years old.

Well, he's saying that in July, the problem with that is in June https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/06/2nd-child-dies-from-coronavirus-in-nj.html

So much for only one eh? but don't worry
Here's the current data

https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AAP%20and%20CHA%20-%20Children%20and%20COVID-19%20State%20Data%20Report%204.15.21%20FINAL.pdf


And
Here's how many kids are currently infected as of the most recent data
See? Immune

3,631,189
13.6%




p.s. roughly 1/2 of every-single-class i teach right now has students who

let me be perfectly clear

can
-NOT-
taste
any
more


(yes really)

Good thing they're immune.

Yes, they had isolation we don't, but also had fewer resources to work with by far, and are much closer to the outbreak in China with tons of travel between countries. I would say having a reasonable, thoughtful population that wanted to avoid being someone who spread the virus and killed people, so followed instructions nearly without exception, compared to the U.S. who had a leader denouncing closings, masks, and social distancing and a population that was happy to spread the disease for political reasons. I think that has WAY more to do with our horrific , worst on the planet per capita despite the most resources by far outcome.

We only have two borders to close. Canada is easy, just ask nicely and they'll stay home. The border with Mexico is a problem, granted, I found it odd Trump didn't use emergency powers to finish his fence when he had a legitimate reason, but that would mean admitting Covid is dangerous, but if we cooperated with Mexico to secure the border we could have minimized all international travel early.

Back to Canada, with two open borders. They have 23000 and a population of 37.59 million, so they also have a per capita death rate well under 1/2 ours, close to 1/3, and they also could have done better if we had done better. It's impossible to figure out what percentage of their infections came from the U.S., but it's definitely a significant number.

Other nations have divisions, if not states, provinces, prefecture, or some other separation of areas. I don't agree that because we have states in our country we are like the EU, because a federal law or executive order covers all states and territories, the EU has no such mechanism as far as I know.

We were the only nation with an international Global Health Security and Biodefense unit, with teams in China and elsewhere, designed to identify new diseases early to avoid pandemics. Trump is totally responsible for dismantling that office, meaning there's a likelihood every non Chinese death and most Chinese deaths would have been avoided had Trump not been butt hurt over a good system set up by Obama. His racist and political hatred put the planet at risk. That alone puts most deaths, U.S. and global, directly on his hands.

Also, the EU population is double ours, meaning with all the multiple open borders and haphazard mix of regulations from different countries, and the enormous immigrant populations, and some actual temporary lockdowns in some of their countries (but not all by far) their infection/death rates are barely over 1/2 what ours are per capita. That's not on par, sorry.

Some of their leaders have some blood on their hands because of poor or slow decisions, but few actually fought against all science and public health measures, denying the mortality rates and doctor's recommendations to convince their populations to do nothing at all to mitigate the pandemic...Brazil did....look at them now. Yes, the president of Brazil absolutely has blood on his hands, and his response mirrored Trump's.

I don't disagree that Trump could have handled many aspects of the pandemic better, but I think your numbers are a bit off.

One, because with the lack of a vaccine, experts are unsure of how many of the deaths can be laid specifically at Trump's feet. In other words, they are unable to put a solid number to how many would have died had he done anything different. It certainly would not be 80-90%, that is a nearly unproveable claim in the face of no vaccine being available. The closest estimate is from the Lancet Commision, which suggests that 40% could be Trump's fault, along with four decades of "long-standing flaws in US economic, health, and social policy" that compounded inefficiencies in the country's public-health systems before the pandemic. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32545-9/fulltext

If you look at statistics, Biden's administration was running at similar death numbers than Trump's for a couple of months after he took office. They only began to decline rapidly since the vaccine became more available. Vaccine availability is more of a factor of how fast the companies were able to make the vaccine, versus anything Biden could have done. His contribution, if you will, is primarily not stockpiling a reserve and sending it out as fast as possible. The current death rate is running about the same as from May 2020 to November 2020. The winter surge was about as bad as everyone expected.

Here is a link that shows the deaths on a timeline. Select "deaths' instead of "cases". https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/01/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/

@bobknight33 you ignorant slut.....

80-90% of all US covid deaths are because of Trump's total bungling of the pandemic. Most due to his denying it was anything but flu for months and encouragement of his followers to ignore and fight against public health measures. Every death since July is because of Trump's disastrous response, and most deaths before July but not all. After two months, Biden's administration has cut deaths by 60%+.

So yes, anyone responsible for that many deaths should not remain president, and he didn't despite the fraud fraud and attempted overthrow of democracy he perpetrated.

I know you're joking, but you aren't wrong.

As a Canadian I am pretty sick of hearing some of the very snide attitudes up here about look at us and how we afford public healthcare at similar taxation to the US. How dumb are you guys to be spending so much money on evil killing machines. snicker snicker

The thing of it is though, we spend as good as nothing on military spending by comparison, and yeah, by saving that money we get to cheap out on taxes and still afford the public health program we have. However, we 100% are earning that luxury on the backs of US taxpayers funding a military that protects BOTH our country and theirs.

We are getting a free ride and mocking the driver for spending so much on their car that we absolutely rely upon because our car is missing two wheels and the engine needs to be rebuilt and we're too cheap to be bothered.