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Judge Locks Up Parkland Shooter for Life, Throws Away Key

cloudballoon says...

How many of the victim's families care for rehabilitation? How many criminals put effort to rehabilitate more than just concerned to survive in there for another day?

So there's always a mix of both though in "Correctional Services". Different countries have different mixture of punishment v. habilitation. Guess how much the USA care for rehabilitation v punishment. Which is more profitable? It's madness, but the benefactors running the system loves locking people up.

newtboy said:

IMO, If prison is for punishment, life sentences are proper.
If prison is for rehabilitation and safety, death sentences are proper.
It’s all about what your society really wants from incarceration….not what they SAY they want.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

Judge Locks Up Parkland Shooter for Life, Throws Away Key

cloudballoon says...

Personally I'm for aborting it, but the Death Penalty might be what the murderer wants, then is it just publishment? That's granting the ultimate wish of the murderer. But if the majority of the victims' families, understandably, wants the closure of the death Penalty, too. Why the need to be 100% unanimous among every jury? So it's always a gray area.

But locking him up for life makes good business for the Correctional Industrial Complex though. Cheap labor! The only absolute loser is the taxpayers.

Pelosi gets under Trump's skin in the most brutal way

newtboy says...

No, sorry, you’re thinking of Trump. More projection.
Turned his back on the attack he fomented, and Americans died defending democracy from MAGA.
Clinton did her job well with the information at hand. She didn’t turn her back like Trump undeniably did, she simply didn’t foresee the future when terrorists would pick one embassy to attack instead of one of the other 255 embassies and consulates. Since she testified for days without once pleading the fifth and no one hid what happened at any of the 10 purely partisan illegitimate hearings about it, unlike every person in cowardly Trump’s circle, we know without a doubt she did not turn her back, nor was she in any way responsible for the 4 Americans who died. You might want to educate yourself.
Republicans admitted plainly and publicly that the only purpose was to defeat her politically, so they consider the never ending hyper partisan extremely expensive hearings that 100% exonerated her a success. I believe the costs ran well over $200 million tax payer dollars for their political commercials couched as “hearings”.

Trump turns his back on constitutionality, civility, rationality, transparency, and reality….he hides everything that happened in the whitehouse, instructs public servants to refuse subpoenas, don’t testify, hide steal and destroy evidence, and don’t in any way cooperate in investigating the viscous violent terroristic attack against America and democracy he personally led to seize power. He said for decades only criminals plead the fifth, you agreed….every person from his administration subpoenaed has pleaded the fifth as has he….you don’t see the connection.

Also, let’s not forget the extra 1 million Americans that his own CDC said died needlessly because Trump turned his back on the pandemic. He’s infinitely more responsibility for 250000 times more deaths after dismantling Obama’s pandemic response team and ignoring Covid, and his plan was to double that number of dead Americans by opposing any public health measures and never locking down.
Remember-
“I know all grandparents agree with me. Grandma and grandpa will be happy to die to get America back to work in weeks instead of months…they WANT to die for America. Get back out there and let the elderly take care of themselves.”
🤦‍♂️
Party of millions of deaths, more pedophilic debauchery in the extreme daily, and the continuing attempted destruction of democracy in America by force…that’s you, friendo. Derp.

Such idiotic rewriting of history, bob. There were 10 illegitimate partisan hearings that she cooperated with over something that, had every accusation been true, still wasn’t criminal. For Jan 6, a deadly coup at Trump’s public direction on American soil that killed MORE Americans and was a DIRECT ATTACK AGAINST AMERICAN SOIL BY TERRORISTS, you say “nothing burger”, proving how unserious, irrational, and a full fledged cultist you are.

Good thing they shot that Traitorous cunt Ashley Babbitt, Bob says you shouldn’t have fucked with police, sweetheart.

bobknight33 said:

That was a ligit hearing because she turned her back on Americans and they died.

Try to leave Home Depot without checking out...

spawnflagger jokingly says...

Those wheel-locking carts have been used elsewhere too, but I doubt they'll have such locks on the flatbed or lumber carts. I bet you could just ask them to put a $459 toilet on a cart for you, and then ask a different person to help load it into your van/truck.
Or, if you really wanted to steal something (small), just put it in an orange 5 gallon bucket.

I'm not condoning theft. I've also wondered why it's totally OK to have bouncers at bars/clubs, but not at retailers?

Transgender Rights II: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver

newtboy says...

Such an idiotic, ignorant, and just dumb response. Teaching kids about options is the opposite of harm, especially when you teach them the pitfalls of their choices. Just like “just say no” was an utter failure and led to a massive drug epidemic, hiding the facts about homosexuality and transgender people can only lead to the same kind of abject failure. Keeping people ignorant, stupid, scared, and angry over things and people they don’t understand is what the right calls good, and it’s just dumb and evil. Your poor children.

Republicans directly killed >1 million Americans in 2020 and tried to double that by completely ignoring covid….actually said grandma and grandpa want to die to get pops back to work a few weeks earlier…., caused destruction costing $500000000 in one day based on pure obvious lies and nearly destroyed democracy (and are still trying hard to get rid of democracy), and every one is an actual street walking hooker (Bohbert), child molester (Trump, Gaetz, judge Roy), wannabe daughter fucker (Trump), transsexual hating transsexual (Greene), tries to buy their friend’s wives for sex (Trump), are so desperate they pay $130k to raw dog porn stars while their pregnant wife sits at home (Trump), vitriolic anti homosexual homosexual (every single anti homosexual Republican ever), best friend to Epstein (Trump), child trafficker (Gaetz), etc. there’s no end to the death, destruction, or debauchery of your party top to bottom….not one bit of it made up like 100% of your accusations against Democrats are.

Yes, you’ve said it before, and you were just as wrong then as you are now. If one party has a lock on death, destruction, and debauchery it’s absolutely 100% yours. You are such an ignorant fool of a tool, and a huge amazingly gullible sucker.

Now, how about that dead treasonous bitch Ashley Babbitt? Good riddance, eh?

bobknight33 said:

More harm to kids, promoted by the radical left.

Like I've said before . Democrats , the party of death, destruction and debauchery.

Murdering Cops Murder Cyclist For Crossing The Street

newtboy says...

Thanks for being consistent if not sane or rational…consistently inconsistent.
You say that invariably when it’s a non white victim, but consistently defend the citizen if it’s a right wing white person violently attacking the cops like on Jan 6 or the Bundys….consistently inconsistent.

You consistently justify this hyper escalation to murder for any color except white MAGA color. When you guys murder cops, permanently disable cops, and try to overthrow democracy, you think there should be absolutely zero consequences. Not for stabbing them, beating them, pepper spraying them, trampling them, nothing is bad enough to require prosecution of your group, nothing minor enough that deadly force isn’t required for others. Consistently.

Again, we’ve seen hundreds of innocent victims and bystanders shot in the back, some while sleeping in their own homes, but there’s nothing you won’t excuse deadly force for….unless it’s against a Maggot. Recently police fired dozens of shots into a crowd of unsuspecting victims trying to shoot one man who was unaware of their presence and not fighting or being a danger to anyone, and they shot at least 5 innocent victims. Calling 100% bullshit on “ Don't fuck around with cops and you wont get shot.”, many many victims are shot not fucking around….just last week a kid was shot with a full clip for moving when a cop asked for his ID, a white kid in his parent’s car, not a car thief the cop just assumed he was. This is not abnormal, it happens almost daily. The ex-cop is facing attempted murder and a dozen more charges.

Jan 6 was heavily armed, with bombs, Molotov cocktails, tons of guns (from pistols to AKs, verified by secret service before the coup), knives, spears, gas, pepper spray, fire extinguishers, and literally truckloads more guns staged nearby, some of which was intercepted, the rest blocked from deployment by DC police. You really are intentionally ignorant as fuck, bob. This is proven public knowledge admitted to in court by Trump’s racist militias (proud boys etc).
It was poorly planned by MAGA morons who think themselves great tacticians but are really total incompetents…thank Jebus.

Jan 6 was an attack on democracy by the ex president in an effort to take control of America by force. It cannot be overhyped, and has not been.

Democrats want Trump to run in 24, because it would be a lock for Democrats across the board. He’s a loser, bigly, and would be a loser again. He has no independent votes, and no Bernie boy vote, and the Republican Party has shrunk significantly. Also, he’s clearly committed multiple crimes that invalidates him as a candidate, and will likely be in prison and court for the rest of his life….you can’t lead from solitary.

Trump is a bad joke, a feeble old con man that decimated America, destroyed the robust economy, deferred any infrastructure maintenance, is responsible for over 1 million American deaths by negligence, destroyed any faith in law or validity of the courts, and created a rift between Americans so wide that one party now includes dissolving the American Union as part of their official platform (your party). I know you would vote for him in 24….twice….and still lose….again.
Yes, I would absolutely would vote for Dank Brandon again if the choice is him vS Trump or a Trumpster which is any Republican left. I would much prefer Buttigieg given my druthers.

Now, let’s hear you answer @bcglorf, coward. Hypocrite. Liar. I know what you said for months after she was shot in self defense. I expect you will just slink away again and ignore your own blatant hypocrisy, like normal….but get ready to be asked again and again until you admit your racist hypocrisy.

bobknight33 said:

Sadly justified at any color. Don't fuck around with cops and you wont get shot.


If Jan 6 was truly an insurrection it was poorly planned and un armed.

Jan 6 is over hyped just to continue to jump on Trump hoping to not to run in 2024 or at least not have the votes.


Biden is a Joke, feeble old man.

Would you would vote for him in 2024?

The Scariest Climate Science Paper I’ve Ever Read?

newtboy says...

I think the truly scary part is that our emissions today continue to have an effect on the climate for decades - centuries, so to affect today’s climate we needed to change our emissions decades ago or find feasible, economically and ecologically viable massive carbon sequestration techniques yesterday.

That’s why I believe we are locked into massive unsurvivable changes as a best case scenario, and a mass extinction of anything bigger than a large cat. Much worse if we continue the current course.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Catherine Leavy, hard core Trumpist, arrested after she called in a bomb threat to Boston Children’s hospital based on the lie that young children were having hysterectomies as part of sex reassignment and were being mutilated intentionally under the assumption that every child born is trans….all nonsense bullshit spouted by right wing talking heads like Carlson…forcing the rapid evacuation of critically ill children. Over a dozen distinct threats against this hospital based on idiotic stupidity your ilk are all too happy to believe without a second thought.

More terrorism, destruction, and death threats against children by the right….the same people who are trying to make it legal to marry 9 year old girls then have sex with them.

Edit: I’m going to guess that you support DeSantis trafficking illegals at insane costs, $12 million of taxpayer money to ship 50 deep into the US as a political stunt/advertisement….how many could have been caught and deported with $12 million? Proof it’s all politics, not about solving the problem at all. Also proof of the unChristian, uncaring, thoughtlessness of the right now, this was an evil ploy to use children as political pawns by attempting to dump them, at night, in residential areas with no social services in the hopes that, out of desperation, one would commit some crime….backfired big time, liberals stood up and took care of these people the right had lied to and abused.
Odd, I thought the right said it dislikes human trafficking, but clearly that’s a lie since you applaud it. Now both the Senator and Governor of Florida are caught red handed child trafficking. Lock them up? Wrong is wrong….child trafficking is wrong….come on friendo, call it wrong AND DENOUNCE THE PERPS, permanently, not for 3 days.

Why it's hard to be Republican w/a mind and heart

newtboy jokingly says...

You knew it was coming….not that them being “nuclear secrets” is a prerequisite for having the top secret classified documents, keeping them unsecured, or lying about it repeatedly to be crimes…they don’t even need to be classified documents , but when they are it’s a slam dunk that mishandling them makes us less safe, and is a crime….when they are the absolute highest level of classification, to be kept under lock and key at secure facilities with secure viewing facilities and under armed guard 24/7…not in a box in the hallway open to the public with framed Time magazines and newspaper clippings….it’s game over, do not pass go, do not collect $200, and it won’t matter how many Trump appointed unqualified judges destroy their careers trying to shield him. One already has.

(From https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793 )
(e) Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or
(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/document-seized-trump-home-described-foreign-governments-nuclear-capabilities-2022-09-07/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/06/trump-nuclear-documents/

Edit : just an aside, discovery in the Dominion case with Fox became interesting today when internal emails from Piro’s producer to the executives were leaked, proving that they KNEW she was just pulling conspiracy theories off the internet to bolster Trump’s false election fraud claims that they knew in early November were false, and that she needed to be removed from the air because she’s using Fox to spread slanderous and libelous lies, opening them up to serious repercussions (like a $1.6 billion judgement). 😂

bobknight33 said:

Trump HAD nuclear secrets????????????
Sorry where is this information ?

Why Geography Makes The US Insanely OP

newtboy says...

Excellent question…and I point out that only Trump spent millions of his own money for a $200k job…and his family made BILLIONS with no exaggeration and no assumptions, guesses, or theories, it’s a proven and under investigation fact. Biden didn’t have tens of millions to spend, his son didn’t either much less billions he’s accused of taking, and his family isn’t directly profiting from being in a nepotistic administration, getting “gifts” from hostile foreign powers in the tens and hundreds of millions, or in Jared’s case, BILLIONS from the Saudis.

Trump exhibits every single tenet of fascism-
WIKI- Fascism - a far-RIGHT, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Sounds exactly like the Trump right to me….and an impossibility for the left since fascism is a far right ideology.

Utter bullshit nonsense. Jan 6 alone, before investigating or prosecuting or housing the criminal terrorists cost over $500 million with 5 dead, for just one day of many far right riots. How much damage and cost has the election fraud fraud with its never ending “investigations” by politically connected organizations with zero experience, destroying entire county wide election systems and invalidating thousands of voting machines brought? How much of the near $40 billion wasted on the border fence that isn’t slowing a single immigrant was just stolen by politically connected groups with zero construction experience who promised to build a wall? If you want to add up costs and damage by party, you can’t then just ignore all costs and damages done by the extreme right/Trumpist fascists.
Now, how much destruction, death, and damage are the right promising to create if Trump is indicted? Pushing their followers to prepare to riot violently should the law be applied to their side while still chanting “lock her up” over Clinton who was only accused of 1% the crimes Trump was caught red handed committing….and you don’t see any hypocrisy, nothing wrong at all with demanding prison for any infraction by political enemies and total blanket immunity for their leaders.

You watch too much far right propaganda (the kind that replayed riot videos from years ago claiming they were of Portland burning daily for months…you must have thought Portland was made of asbestos to still be there to burn after week one of that lie, truth is the Portland “riots” were mostly peaceful and were only about a 4 city block area, not the entire city, something else OAN and FOX neglected to tell you), the kind of far right propaganda that never reported on the far right actors caught shooting crowds, lighting fires, shooting cops, setting bombs, etc. Most arsons, nearly all deaths, and 100% of cop killing and bombings during the 2020 riots (that Trump couldn’t stop but did exacerbate) were caused by proud and boogaloo boys trying false flag attacks. They were caught and prosecuted (or killed) committing crimes and blaming blm. There weren’t many BLM prosecutions and fewer convictions because there was no evidence the BLM activists committed these crimes, unlike the right wingers that were convicted of them…but you weren’t told that on OAN. They were dumb enough to carry manifestos explaining the false flag plans.

Dangerous? Hardly. The right perpetrated every instance of domestic terrorism this decade and last. Death threats at unbelievable levels even to the FBI and DOJ (because you’re idiots), showing up at school board meetings armed and apoplectic, refusing public health laws and making the pandemic 10+ times worse…the right is insane and armed and angry and self righteous and ready and willing to retry the civil war (too dumb to know it was the worst thing that ever happened to America and much worse for the confederacy)….nothing is more dangerous.
Violent? The right has that on lock too, 10/10 top gun murder states are red states. Red counties also have higher gun deaths.
Anti-free speech!?! 😂 Don’t say gay…not a Democratic governmental censorship. No CRT- again, not Democratic censorship or rational. Book banning and burning, again, not the Democrats or left.

“I just admit this is true”? Is this a typo or a brain fart? I did not, and do not “admit” or agree anything you said here is true.

Sorry, friendo, you have everything backwards as usual…based on your FEELINGS, not any facts. You just can’t admit you’ve been so wrong, so instead you continue to be wrong. Grow up. Being an adult means admitting mistakes, something you haven’t done once in the time I’ve known you.

You just can’t and won’t see facts or truth, and insist despite all evidence that your side is peaceful…peaceful gun toting and shooting, stabbing and smashing, Molotov and bomb carrying, don’t back down, no compromise, angry, vitriolic, uncivil, murderous mobs demanding their loser despotic dictator be installed as president for life and death to any opposition….not just on Jan 6 too. Ever since Nov 4 2020, Jan 6 was just one bad day of your normal behavior at Trump’s direction for his benefit….but it failed because you’re all really just cowardly snowflakes that ran at the first gunfire, not strong brave patriots fighting for freedom but weak, scared seditionists fighting for a non democratic dictator.

PS- sounds like Toth Senchal is done, failed to get the shareholder support needed to get an extension on their merger that would have brought funding, so no merger, no $1.5 billion in funding, not going public, >$1.5 million in debt and preparing to stiff their vendors in true Trump style. Another failed Trump venture costing his investors millions and leaving his vendors unpaid as usual. Suckers…what idiot gives Trump credit? No bank will.

PPS - how are you likening the right wing switch from “Trump did nothing wrong, nothing burger” to “There’s nothing in the constitution barring Trump from running for president from prison”? I’ve heard various senators and representatives say that now…not just morons on the street but morons in congress. So deep in the cult you think a president that does business through collect phone calls that are monitored and recorded is a reasonable sacrifice to have Trump back. 🤦‍♂️

PPPS- we just got video of Trump’s lawyers with their tech guy being escorted into Georgia election offices by one of the fake electors at the exact time voting machines and the tabulation systems were illegally breached in that office on Jan 7 21 (the day after the failed coup). This happened in multiple states, illegal breaching of voting systems by Trump’s team, harming the nation irreparably, all at Trump’s direction. Wrong is wrong….at what point is wrong enough to stop supporting wrong. I would say there is no wrong so wrong you would drop Trump, not if he’s caught mid ejaculation in the 6 year old boy he is in the process of electrocuting to death to enhance his own orgasm…you would blame the dead boy, not Trump.

PPPPS- Trump just admitted he’s a serious drug addict, addicted to cocaine, meth, crack, heroin, even fentenal. He did this by accusing Fetterman of all those addictions with zero evidence, which means it’s projection 100% of the time. This you guy, a deranged dope fiend and incestuous pedophile who steals top secret documents and spreads them around his property that’s open to the public. 😂

bobknight33 said:

Like I said all governments are corrupt, even ours. Democrats and Republicans are corrupt. Why would anyone spend millions just to get a 200K $ /yr job?

Trump is not Fascist, just has a large following.
Jan 6 was 1 day of that went sideways.

During Trump years the left burned looted killed many more. The Left are the dangerous side, inciting violence, anti free speech.


You just admit that this is true.

Trump’s Maralago Home Raided By FBI

newtboy says...

Backfired, eh? How’s that working out now? How many early races Republicans thought were locks have already been lost? How many Trumpian candidates are behind in polls by double digits?

What backfired by poking a hornets nest was the political activist judges reversing 50 years of precedent and settled law based on pure politics…erasing civil rights and threatening to go insanely farther (like making interracial marriage illegal, erasing voting rights, etc) that is driving people to the polls in unprecedented numbers already, and they aren’t voting red.

What also backfired was years of harping on about a few mislabeled low level classified but not secret documents ending up on a server is treason then trying to say over 700 pages of highest level top secret clearly labeled classified paper documents (with no way to trace who has seen it) kept unsecured unlocked unguarded in closets and basements of a home often open to the “public” and repeatedly penetrated by foreign spies after two subpoenas requesting them and multiple false affidavits claiming they didn’t exist is nothing. That’s too much even for some cultists, and WAY too much for non cultists. Sure didn’t drive right wing New Yorkers to the polls. 😂 😂 😂

Going to be even better if someone sues to remove all Republicans from the ballot in Texas since they’re all legally communists now and ineligible for public office in Texas. ROTFLMFAHS!!!

bobknight33 said:

Yet more BS fuckery by deep state to keep Trump from running 2024.

But that did poke the stick at the hornet nest of the republican party.

Boy did this BS back fire

Biden Approval WTF

JiggaJonson says...

@bobknight33

Seriously, I'm finishing off an apple juice box my kiddo drank half of for dinner, clearly labeled on the top and I'll produce a picture if you like, JUICE BLEND FROM USA, CHINA, UKRAINE


Like. It's NOT Joe Biden's fault that the apple juice cost more. Trump's trade war with China that was "Very easy to win" is still ongoing at a stalemate's pace, raising the cost of most things out of china for US citizens alone. Then of course China had the lock entire cities down for crazy lengths of time that hindered shipping and production, again raising costs.

Ukraine got denied defense promises that the US had made prior to trump , then a few years later, Russia invades- leaving any product that uses wheat starved of raw material to work with.


That shit ain't Joe Biden's fault. You act like you care about fact finding.

WHAT IS BIDEN RESPONSIBLE FOR?
WHAT DID HE DO TO CAUSE THIS?
HOW DO YOU KNOW BIDEN'S ACTIONS ARE IN-FACT, CAUSING THIS PROBLEM?

“Don’t Look Up” in Real Life

newtboy says...

19 of the 20 hottest years ever recorded have occurred in the last 21 years.
8 of the hottest 8 years ever recorded were the last 8 years.

Black is not white. Up is not down. Hot is not cold….no matter how many times you say it, Bob. Being too dumb to even understand the science or its implications have you just denying it….like if you don’t understand it must not be true. 🤦‍♂️
It is well known that the right’s MO is to just lie about what their opponent claims, then debunk their own lie, ignoring the actual claims. It’s the best you can do, and the right’s constituents are so intellectually absent, incurious, and not just willing but wanting to be spoon fed propaganda that you buy it without ever investigating a thing. I know this to be true, because everyone who actually looks at the data (and doesn’t just misrepresent it completely) comes to the same conclusion (unless they’re selling something).

2030 did not come from Greta. It came from multiple climate reports, except for those who said we had less time.
It’s a purposeful intent to mislead the public to say the reports say ultimate disaster happens in 2030, they don’t, and the right knows they don’t say that and knows that’s not what climate activists say either…it says at current rates (when the report was written) by 2030 1.5C rise would be locked in, unavoidable. CO2 can last 300-1000 years actively in the atmosphere. Stopping adding CO2 and methane when we are at the line of 1.5C rise is planning for disaster with no backup and no margin for error when the stakes are literally survival of the species and civilization. In fact, rates have increased since the data was collected, so 2030 is too late….2000 may have been too late to stop runaway climate change, but we can still minimize or slow the impacts.

1.5C is when we lose control and feedback loops (likely) take over our ability to have any control. It’s too bad so many idiots are too dumb to comprehend that yet still have the resources to effect the outcome. “Mea culpa” isn’t going to restore the planet when they finally admit the undeniable, neither is their heads on pikes nor their children being used as food, but that’s where we’re going. Too bad we aren’t there yet, it would save a hell of a lot of problems if we just eradicated the irresponsible money worshiping morons in favor of people who put a livable planet above record quarterly profits.

bobknight33 said:

Climate change denial

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