and you will not live forever. just like the egyptian pharaoes' religion didn't make them immortal and just like the vikings are not in valhalla fighting and drinking and feasting forever.

God created the big bang. I'll prove it at the end of this universe before the next one occurs. Take my immortality potion and join me in hale-bopp. I win!

WLC says; "On the basis of the ressurection of jesus, we have grounds for the hope of immortality. If god raised jesus from the dead, then there is hope of immortality." What grounds, what evidence? What nonsense. Keep fighting your cancer Hitch, there is no one who debunks the rhetorical white noise of bronze age mystics like you.

Fanks!

In reply to this comment by Ryjkyj:
*promote

I'm not belittling you. I'm just saying if you take away one thing from a man like Hitchens its to be your own agent in the name of reason. Do you think he'd rather live forever in his own mortal vessel or live immortally by inspiring others to follow truth like he has?>> ^A10anis:

>> ^rottenseed:
Great...then spend the next 5 years of your life educating yourself so that you may pick up where he left off. It's indirect, but it just may work.>> ^A10anis:
In all seriousness, and honesty, I would give up 5 years of my life, to allow Hitch 5 more years of his.


What i said was honest and true. No more no less. I don't need you to belittle my gesture with your trite comment. Sydney Carton to you, no doubt, could have done more than just give his life for another. Do you know my age, or my education? Of course not, so don't make assumptions. Take some things at face value my friend, what I said, was what I meant.

The dude at the end is Immortal Technique: http://www.myspace.com/immortaltechnique

I'd say the first two minutes, but that's just quibbling. Miriam's story needs true immortalization.

In the immortal words of Krusty the Klown: "Uuuughhh!--that just kept goin', huh?"

Dude, I'm a neuroscientist. If you want to talk brains, we can talk brains. I'll tell you this much though, we have virtually no idea how conscious experience relates to the brain. We know ways in which it relates to sensation and action, but consciousness seems to be this pesky nuisance parameter which defies any explanation based in the physical world.

The alternative to jumping to reductionist conclusions is to withhold belief until you are supported by evidence. You know, not doing that thing you malign religious people for doing.

>> ^hpqp:

You mean, apart from everything we know about how the brain works? And that our experience of consciousness is a function of that organ?
Moreover, what is the alternative, an immortal "soul"?
>> ^bmacs27:
>> ^hpqp:
Uh, yeah, it's the same as your "conscious experience" before you existed.
>> ^bmacs27:
So, do you guys hold any opinion on what happens to your conscious experience after death?


You should listen to Admiral Ackbar more often.
What evidence do you have for that opinion?

You mean, apart from everything we know about how the brain works? And that our experience of consciousness is a function of that organ?

Moreover, what is the alternative, an immortal "soul"?

>> ^bmacs27:

>> ^hpqp:
Uh, yeah, it's the same as your "conscious experience" before you existed.
>> ^bmacs27:
So, do you guys hold any opinion on what happens to your conscious experience after death?


You should listen to Admiral Ackbar more often.
What evidence do you have for that opinion?

1. Adam and Eve had a limited knowledge of good and evil by what God had informed them about..they knew enough to know it was wrong to disobey God.

2. God isn't merely good, like He is living up to some sort of standard. He is goodness itself. So when I call God good, I am not judging His character, I am describing it. I call God good because that is what He is, inherently. I am, like you, incapable of judging God, but I can describe Him. It's not a value judgement, it's really the definition of what good is and where it comes from.

>> ^acidSpine:
>> ^shinyblurry:
Sorry acidspine, I missed your question here.
1: When God created Adam and Eve, they were created in a state of innocence. The creation at that point was declared by God to be good. So Adam and Eve enjoyed a fellowship with God without any contamination of evil. However, God had to offer them a choice. If He didn't, they would have no more than puppets. He desired a loving relationship with them, but it would not be love if they had no choice. God wanted them to choose love and trust Him. The only way to give them a choice would be to command something that was not allowed.
So He gave them one rule, not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Satan was allowed to tempt them, saying that God was a liar and that the knowledge of good and evil would be a good thing, and that they would even be equal to God. The knowledge was this; to know the difference between good and evil. Before they gained this knowledge, they relied on God to tell them the difference. They enjoyed a state of innocence because of this. God wished them to be free of evil and to teach them step by step. They decided to betray God, however, and believe the devil..and when they ate of the fruit, the knowledge of evil brought to them fear and shame. Their innocent relationship with God was ruined. Their corruption meant they could no longer enjoy direct fellowship with God, so He cast them out of the garden. They also lost their immortality and began to die. Their sin brought death into the world. Obviously, it wasn't a good thing.
2: Well, first, all human beings are hypocrites. God is perfect and Holy. Ultimate justice could only be decided by a perfect being..all else would be hypocripsy and injustice. So our judgement will always be imperfect and unjust. If God broke His own laws, yes we could point the finger at Him. If He broke even one, it would mean He was imperfect and unqualified to judge us. We however are stained by our sins. It isn't rare to have broken almost every commandment even at a young age. If a murderer pointed the finger at you because he didnt like your behavior, would you take him seriously? God said if we even hate anyone we have committed murder in our hearts. So, pointing the finger at God when we ourselves are stained by sin is fairly ridiculous. We are born into this world with nothing, and life is a gift, but somehow we feel entitled to say God owes us something, as if God is our debtor. With sin on our minds, and corruption in our hearts, we say to God..what right have you to judge us! Well, He has every right..He is sovereign over His creation.
Isaiah 29:15-16
Woe to those who go to great depths to hide their plans from the LORD, who do their work in darkness and think, "Who sees us? Who will know?"
You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, "He did not make me"? Can the pot say of the potter, "He knows nothing"?
>> ^acidSpine:
Hey shiny, I know you like evangelasing so I have two simple questions for you that shouldn't take much time to answer. Here goes
1. What was the knowledge Adam and Eve supposedly gained by eating the forbidden fruit?
2. As human beings are we capable of judging god's moral character?
As a sweetener, if you answer both questions succinctly I will upvote this vid re-sifting it as it were (unless the recent downvote didn't remove a star point in which case I have nothing to offer)


Thats ok
I'll be breif. Your answer to the first question was that in the bible Adam and Eve gained knowledge of good and evil after eating the fruit. But if they had no knowledge of good and evil how would they know doing the wrong thing was bad?
I'm not really sure that you answered the second question but I will just say if I'm not allowed to judge god as (non-existant) evil then you aren't allowed to judge him as good.
Thanks for the reply

>> ^shinyblurry:

Sorry acidspine, I missed your question here.
1: When God created Adam and Eve, they were created in a state of innocence. The creation at that point was declared by God to be good. So Adam and Eve enjoyed a fellowship with God without any contamination of evil. However, God had to offer them a choice. If He didn't, they would have no more than puppets. He desired a loving relationship with them, but it would not be love if they had no choice. God wanted them to choose love and trust Him. The only way to give them a choice would be to command something that was not allowed.
So He gave them one rule, not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Satan was allowed to tempt them, saying that God was a liar and that the knowledge of good and evil would be a good thing, and that they would even be equal to God. The knowledge was this; to know the difference between good and evil. Before they gained this knowledge, they relied on God to tell them the difference. They enjoyed a state of innocence because of this. God wished them to be free of evil and to teach them step by step. They decided to betray God, however, and believe the devil..and when they ate of the fruit, the knowledge of evil brought to them fear and shame. Their innocent relationship with God was ruined. Their corruption meant they could no longer enjoy direct fellowship with God, so He cast them out of the garden. They also lost their immortality and began to die. Their sin brought death into the world. Obviously, it wasn't a good thing.
2: Well, first, all human beings are hypocrites. God is perfect and Holy. Ultimate justice could only be decided by a perfect being..all else would be hypocripsy and injustice. So our judgement will always be imperfect and unjust. If God broke His own laws, yes we could point the finger at Him. If He broke even one, it would mean He was imperfect and unqualified to judge us. We however are stained by our sins. It isn't rare to have broken almost every commandment even at a young age. If a murderer pointed the finger at you because he didnt like your behavior, would you take him seriously? God said if we even hate anyone we have committed murder in our hearts. So, pointing the finger at God when we ourselves are stained by sin is fairly ridiculous. We are born into this world with nothing, and life is a gift, but somehow we feel entitled to say God owes us something, as if God is our debtor. With sin on our minds, and corruption in our hearts, we say to God..what right have you to judge us! Well, He has every right..He is sovereign over His creation.
Isaiah 29:15-16
Woe to those who go to great depths to hide their plans from the LORD, who do their work in darkness and think, "Who sees us? Who will know?"
You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, "He did not make me"? Can the pot say of the potter, "He knows nothing"?
>> ^acidSpine:
Hey shiny, I know you like evangelasing so I have two simple questions for you that shouldn't take much time to answer. Here goes
1. What was the knowledge Adam and Eve supposedly gained by eating the forbidden fruit?
2. As human beings are we capable of judging god's moral character?
As a sweetener, if you answer both questions succinctly I will upvote this vid re-sifting it as it were (unless the recent downvote didn't remove a star point in which case I have nothing to offer)



Thats ok

I'll be breif. Your answer to the first question was that in the bible Adam and Eve gained knowledge of good and evil after eating the fruit. But if they had no knowledge of good and evil how would they know doing the wrong thing was bad?
I'm not really sure that you answered the second question but I will just say if I'm not allowed to judge god as (non-existant) evil then you aren't allowed to judge him as good.

Thanks for the reply

Sorry acidspine, I missed your question here.

1: When God created Adam and Eve, they were created in a state of innocence. The creation at that point was declared by God to be good. So Adam and Eve enjoyed a fellowship with God without any contamination of evil. However, God had to offer them a choice. If He didn't, they would have no more than puppets. He desired a loving relationship with them, but it would not be love if they had no choice. God wanted them to choose love and trust Him. The only way to give them a choice would be to command something that was not allowed.

So He gave them one rule, not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Satan was allowed to tempt them, saying that God was a liar and that the knowledge of good and evil would be a good thing, and that they would even be equal to God. The knowledge was this; to know the difference between good and evil. Before they gained this knowledge, they relied on God to tell them the difference. They enjoyed a state of innocence because of this. God wished them to be free of evil and to teach them step by step. They decided to betray God, however, and believe the devil..and when they ate of the fruit, the knowledge of evil brought to them fear and shame. Their innocent relationship with God was ruined. Their corruption meant they could no longer enjoy direct fellowship with God, so He cast them out of the garden. They also lost their immortality and began to die. Their sin brought death into the world. Obviously, it wasn't a good thing.

2: Well, first, all human beings are hypocrites. God is perfect and Holy. Ultimate justice could only be decided by a perfect being..all else would be hypocripsy and injustice. So our judgement will always be imperfect and unjust. If God broke His own laws, yes we could point the finger at Him. If He broke even one, it would mean He was imperfect and unqualified to judge us. We however are stained by our sins. It isn't rare to have broken almost every commandment even at a young age. If a murderer pointed the finger at you because he didnt like your behavior, would you take him seriously? God said if we even hate anyone we have committed murder in our hearts. So, pointing the finger at God when we ourselves are stained by sin is fairly ridiculous. We are born into this world with nothing, and life is a gift, but somehow we feel entitled to say God owes us something, as if God is our debtor. With sin on our minds, and corruption in our hearts, we say to God..what right have you to judge us! Well, He has every right..He is sovereign over His creation.

Isaiah 29:15-16

Woe to those who go to great depths to hide their plans from the LORD, who do their work in darkness and think, "Who sees us? Who will know?"

You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, "He did not make me"? Can the pot say of the potter, "He knows nothing"?

>> ^acidSpine:
Hey shiny, I know you like evangelasing so I have two simple questions for you that shouldn't take much time to answer. Here goes
1. What was the knowledge Adam and Eve supposedly gained by eating the forbidden fruit?
2. As human beings are we capable of judging god's moral character?
As a sweetener, if you answer both questions succinctly I will upvote this vid re-sifting it as it were (unless the recent downvote didn't remove a star point in which case I have nothing to offer)

What I always found funny about the afterlife is that it's supposedly a reward.

If you avoid all these sins and live a good life...you get to live in an afterlife where you basically get to indulge in sin after sin.

Heaven has been associated with decadent things....ultimate comfort, eating extremely decadent food without getting fat, being able to indulge in all these things that....oh wait....are supposedly sins.

So be good...avoid sin, so you can live an immortal life doing all the things we said were sinful.

I knew you'd be able to handle it. I don't know what every one was so worried about.
>> ^shinyblurry:

This is just sour grapes for Fusionauts failed attempt to ban me. That being said, I enjoyed it so I will upvote.
I will also take this opportunity to say that I do love Jesus, with all that I am, and that I am grateful beyond words for his mercy and love. That he saved me, an insignificant undeserving sinner, though I didn't most certainly didn't deserve it. That He loved me before I even knew Him, and even that little things in my life concern Him.
He is the way the truth and life, and the only way to eternal life. This world is perishing and nothing here will last..but His words will never pass away, and He is there for all that are in need, all who are suffering and downcast and degraded by this world. He is the light of the world, who gave His life as a ransom for many, so you and I could be forgiven and receive life eternal with Him in paradise. May His kingdom come soon!
1 Timothy 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.