The longer I live the more I realize how much of a fucking genius George Orwell was. Everything really is the opposite of reality with these people.

Watching this resulted in another one of those incremental increases in appreciation for the man. Fuck these fascist assholes in their fascist fucking assholes!

So, up until the 8 minute mark this sounded utterly correct. In particular around 7:20 or so, he mentions that the system of ownership breaks down when you get a fair income distribution, and see a middle class start to emerge.

I agree.

Then he takes a really stupid rightward turn, and insists that it's unions who're doing the hatchetwork for our owners. Please. Unions don't work for governments, or for companies. They work for us livestock.

Government, on the other hand, can easily wind up doing all the hatchetwork for the owners. Take the ultimate libertarian government -- one that only enforces ownership rights. What more could our owners want than that? Here is the natural endpoint of such moronic ideas. All the better if people come to believe that such slavery is really freedom. After all, freedom only belongs to the owners, and limits on their freedom so you can have some is wrong.

That's why income equality is such a threat to the owners -- once people get to the point where they're not constantly in a struggle to provide the basics for their family, and get a taste of real disposable income, they realize how very little money they really need, and they get very, very dangerous to the system.

They're right that economic growth attracts thieves -- the capitalist kind, who demand tax cuts and a continued maintenance of welfare to keep their livestock healthy and educated. That leads to debts, debts that they don't have to worry about paying, because they can just use their ill-gotten gain to keep bribing politicians and brainwashing the ignorant livestock into thinking it's us livestock who've been living lives of undeserved excess.

PS: The other 1984 slogans were "War is Peace", "Ignorance is Strength", along with "Freedom is Slavery". They'd fit nicely on the RNC front page.

PPS: George Orwell was a democratic socialist.

And they thought he was only good for comedy. He sounded pretty knowledge, and patient around people right there. Tough subject matter, made worst, when the audience lives on sound bits of lies and misinformation. That crowd there, seemed hostile at the start, and started calming down as time progressed. If the fear and misinformation is taken out of the problem, the problem is easily managable and understood.

But I would like quantumushroom to tell all of us want 'real freedom' entails. Or is he getting at Animal Farm? "All the animals are equal, but some are more equal" ('Animal Farm', George Orwell).

I think those people QM, got some real freedom. They got to see our goverment at work, and in their presence, speaking to them.

>> ^bluecliff:
wow. calling burqas fascist really tells you went to the best schools. Just a scare word for idiots to flock about.
wikipedia:
The word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. – George Orwell, What is Fascism?. 1944.
And Orwell knew this in 1944!

Pot, meet Mr. Black Kettle

Anybody who has been to an average school let alone the "best" would know that quoting wikipedia as a source of your argument is a NO-NO.

>> ^bluecliff:
wow. calling burqas fascist really tells you went to the best schools. Just a scare word for idiots to flock about.
wikipedia:
The word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. – George Orwell, What is Fascism?. 1944.
And Orwell knew this in 1944!


True, the word "fascist" gets used far too often, but when it comes to describing Islam, it's pretty accurate.

FYI, fascism is defined as: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, [...] and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

It's not exact, but it describes Islam pretty well... then again, it describes Christianity too...

wow. calling burqas fascist really tells you went to the best schools. Just a scare word for idiots to flock about.

wikipedia:

The word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. – George Orwell, What is Fascism?. 1944.

And Orwell knew this in 1944!

Assuming all the negative stereotypes of atheists can be discounted ("criminal behavior, rampant materialism, cultural elitism")

Instead of adressing the two first of these apparent stereotypes, I'm going to focus on the third: "cultural elitism". cultural elitism.. What exactly is that, and why is it a "negative stereotype"?

To answer this, I cant help bringing up Animal Farm, the book by George Orwell. In this book, the animals, lead by the powerhungry, greedy Pigs, are staging a riot and decide to throw out the farmer and run the farm all by themselves. I guess we've all heard the story, seen a movie or atleast gotten the gist of this story, but the particular part of the story I'm thinking of is the story of the Sheep. The sheep, being not-to-bright, illiterate and easy to lead, are quick to find their place and purpose under the more and more pig-driven "all animals are equal" regime. Their job is to repeat the ever-simpler slogans of the new farm. Starting with a list of 10 or so rules written on the barn wall, it gradually boils down to "Four legs Good, Two Legs Bad".

FOUR LEGS GOOD, TWO LEGS BAD!

The sheep keep repeating the phrase, singing it, again and again, as if saying it proved a point in itself. But while the phrase is catchy, simple and easy to remember, the most important thing about it is of course how utterly EMPTY and MEANINGLESS it is. The sheep and all the other animals are fooled by this illusion that this phrase actually means anything.

CULTURAL ELITISM!

Equally empty, equally meaningless, quantomushroom is a hapless sheep, repeating nonsensical bullshit like this, likely after hearing it from leading sheep like O'reilly and limbaugh and Hannity and Glenn Beck, as if it meant something.

Is Obama an ELITIST?!!! We're just asking, here on FOX!

Meaningless, empty babble. What does it even entail, this mysterious "elitism", is it that these darn elitists have read books? that they listen to classical music? that they are not rednecks? that they are "out of touch" with the common guy?

I thought so. when you think about this stuff for longer than the 2 seconds FOX give to till commercial break, you discover that if "cultural elitist" even means anything AT ALL, why the fuck does it matter? Isnt the important part here, what people actually DO?

^ I love Lord of the Flies! Great story. It uses fear quite well to demonstrate human nature is willed toward control and authority in a democracy. I wonder if Simon would still be alive if he had a gun to protect himself instead of relying on the power of the group to do so? Probably so seeing how it was the group that killed him during their ritual rites that everyone was forced to partake in (force is democracy in action).

Also, a good Constitutional Republic would've helped those poor boys out. A nice writ of law (If only Ralph was Madison!) to protect individual rights to life and property, but also one that is limited enough where democracy (51% telling the other 49% what to do) cannot affect it.

But, I suppose that wasn't the point of the story, was it? Thanks for the Libertarian example.

(Fun fact: George Orwell was also a Tory-Anarchist where the term 'tory' is synonymous with Conservative.)

^I see your Animal Farm and raise you a Lord of the Flies.

(Trivia fun fact: George Orwell was a socialist.)

"...the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else ... Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathisers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come."

-George Orwell

http://runningclam.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/placa-de-george-orwell.jpg

"We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work upon it now. There will be no loyalty, except loyalty towards the Party. There will be no love, except the love of Big Brother. There will be no laughter, except the laugh of triumph over a defeated enemy. There will be no art, no literature, no science. When we are omnipotent there will be no need of science. There will be no distinction between beauty and ugliness. There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always—do not forget this Winston—always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever." George Orwell, 1984

Dune - Frank Herbert
The Divine Comedy - Dante
Paradise Lost - Milton
1984 - George Orwell
The Little Prince

OK, so I'll make a list now, and then read everybody elses and see if it reminds me of other books that really stick with me

1 Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid - Douglas Hofstadter
2 1984 - George Orwell
3 A Deepness In The Sky - Vernor Vinge
4 Interview With A Vampire - Ann Rice
5 Cyberpunk: Outlaws and Hackers on the Computer Frontier - Katie Hafner and John Markoff
6 The Tuning of The World - R. Murray Schafer
7 The God Delusion - Richard Dawkins
8 National Geographic Picture Atlas of Our Universe - Roy A. Gallant and Margaret Sedeen
9 The Perfectionist: Life and Death in Haute Cuisine - Rudolph Chelminski
10 The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals - Michael Pollan

OK, read others' and realize that I should have put Dune, for sure. I'm glad to see I'm not the only Hofstadter fan, and thrilled to see another Vinge on the list.

I feel kind of weird to have 1984 and Interview with a Vampire on my list. 1984, just because it really did stick and resonate, and well... I've probably read IwaV a few dozen times. Back in junior high I read it almost monthly.

I actually was considering putting The Star Wars Sourcebook by Bill Slavicsek & Curtis Smith on my list. That book blew my mind when I was young, and it definitely will always have a special place in my heart. Now that I look at a picture of the cover on Amazon, I wish that I had. Such an awesome book.

" During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

George Orwell