Shwing!
That's some hard core *quality *motorsports porn. Gt40's always get my motor running hot. Hubba hubba.
*promote the epitome of GT sex symbols.
I need a cold shower now. *pant*

my teacher did something similar when i was in kindergarten. one of my earliest and fondest memories of why no one deserves respect that doesnt give it.

this isnt as bad as forced-drinking of hotsauce and taking cold showers, while being forced to tell why you're being punished, like that lady on Dr. Phil

It could be worse, she could be putting hot sauce in his mouth and making him take cold showers. Don't worry, I'm sure this kid will grow up just fine without any sort of discipline whatsoever.

And to all those who said it was sick, that she was an unfit mother, or even went as far as to say what she did was abuse, about this video; would you say the same about this woman?

In an article from The New York Times, Dr. Shari Barkin, chief of the division of general pediatrics at the Monroe Carell Jr. Children’s Hospital at Vanderbilt University says:

Many parents’ discipline methods don’t work because children quickly learn that it’s much easier to capture a parent’s attention with bad behavior than with good. Parents unwittingly reinforce this by getting on the phone, sending e-mail messages or reading the paper as soon as a child starts playing quietly, and by stopping the activity and scolding a child when he starts to misbehave.

“How many times have you heard someone say, ‘I need to get off the phone because my child is acting up’?” asked Dr. Nathan J. Blum, a developmental-behavioral pediatrician at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. “You’re doing exactly what the child wants.”

I argue that this kind of reinforcement only sets this child up for negative attention seeking behavior for the rest of his/her life. And in my opinion this is just as (if not more) abusive as putting hot sauce in someone's mouth or making them take a cold shower as a form of punishment. When that mom told her kid to do something he sure as shit did it, maybe it was done out of fear (and im still not advocating that, just trying to shoot down people who call it child abuse) but it's better that he's afraid of authority imho than unyielding.

This boy is the kind of person that's gonna grow up to be a career criminal, constantly disrespecting authority. The other boy will hate hot sauce, cold showers, and probably his mother. I'll pick the latter any day.

>> ^shogunkai:

One day that kid is going to snap, and then murder his mother with a cold shower and hot sauce.


More like a frozen lake and acid.

Anyway, point is, I agree with all those who said it's about the fear. Punishment can be given without causing your kid to be terrified of telling you the truth. Kids fuck up and they need to know they can trust their parents to at least understand they fucked up even if they get punished for it.

Teaching people not to do things because there's a reason it's morally wrong is better than teaching them not to do something because they fear punishment. The latter only serves to simultaneously teach that if you don't get caught, then there's nothing wrong with what you did. It teaches that there's a vast moral gray area, and plenty of room to manipulate people in order to avoid punishment.

People don't have any sort of natural, innate respect for an authority dishing out punishment. You have to believe in the reason the authority is dishing out the punishment for it to ultimately work. This is why people constantly disagree with "ultimate" authorities like God and Government...because they see the fallacies in the reasoning behind the punishments dished out by these authorities.

One day that kid is going to snap, and then murder his mother with a cold shower and hot sauce.

From Dr Phil's Website:

Dr. Phil plays a video of Jessica standing in her bathroom yelling at her 7-year-old son, Kristoff. Dr. Phil interrupts the tape before its completion and turns to the mom of six.

“So that makes sense to you?” he asks, indicating her discipline techniques.

“I don’t know what to do with this child,” she replies.

“I’m just going to tell you up front, there is no theory under which that is going to work. There is no theory under which that makes sense,” Dr. Phil says. “You had to know that was going to be my attitude about this.”

“Of course,” she says.

When the videotape ends, mouths hang open, and many audience members wipe away tears.

“I need to say this and be very clear. We didn’t shoot that tape. Your daughter shot that tape,” Dr. Phil reminds Jessica. “Because if I had a camera crew in your home shooting that, and they didn’t intervene and stop it, there would be something seriously wrong with my camera crew. I think anybody would look at that and say that that is absolutely outrageous, it is over the top, it is abusive, it is inefficient, it is out of control. I’m sorry. I just have to tell you the truth.”

“You’re completely entitled to your opinions,” Jessica says. “That’s why I’m here.”

“I’m glad you are here, because I’m telling you, that has to stop,” Dr. Phil warns Jessica. “If you say you’ve been through everything — you’ve tried time-outs, you’ve done this, you’ve done that — if you’re down to that, then you need to give the child up, because you are out of control. Somebody in the audience yelled out, ‘That is evil.’ I don’t believe that. I don’t believe you’re an evil person. I think you are misguided. I think you think you’re doing the only thing you know how to do, but that is totally unacceptable.”

“Then tell me what I need to do with him,” Jessica says in frustration.

Dr. Phil explains what Jessica means in the videotape when she says Kristoff “pulled three cards" at school. Green means good job, yellow is a warning, blue is a time-out, orange means removal from class and red means a trip to the principal’s office. “He had three cards that day. What were they for?” Dr. Phil asks.

“He was throwing pencils, he was sword fighting with another child, and he was acting out in another class,” Jessica replies.

“Your theory is, based on that, he then lied about it? He didn’t tell you he got the three?”

“Correct.”

“Let me tell you, I would lie 100 out of 100 times. You are teaching him to lie,” Dr. Phil points out. “Based on results, what you’re doing isn’t working.”

“So tell me what will,” Jessica says. “I will be happy to abandon all of that.”

“I believe you are desperate for answers,” Dr. Phil notes.

In an interview, Jessica’s husband, Gary, explains how he feels about his wife’s methods for disciplining Kristoff. “Jessica is more frustrated than angry, because we’ve added more kids to the house. When Jessica gets frustrated, I see her having a shorter temper. Kristoff has not reacted to much of our discipline,” he says. “The idea for hot sauce came up from my wife talking to a friend of hers. In the military, we use cold showers for discipline, basically to get people’s attention. When Kristoff gets a cold shower, he pays attention at the moment. I feel like I’m strict with my kids.”

When the videotape ends, Dr. Phil turns to Jessica. “You believe that, in fact, he has reactive attachment disorder,” he says, referring to her adopted son.

“Correct,” she answers.

“Is that your diagnosis, or has he been seen by a professional who has rendered that diagnosis?”

“He was seen by a professional for a while, but I don’t know if that professional diagnosed him as reactive attachment disorder,” Jessica replies.

“He is a twin, and his brother is not like this at all,” Dr. Phil points out.

http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/6062/?id=6062&showID=1545

Also:
Reactive attachment disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_attachment_disorder

>> ^nanrod:

To all those who think a cold shower is not torture, you obviously haven't experienced immersion in cold water where you couldn't just get out. We've all had reason to have cold showers, hot weather, horniness, hangover. I've done the sauna thing jumping thru a hole cut in ice on a lake. I've participated in a polar bear swim in the Pacific and
Atlantic. In all these things getting in and out is your choice. Not being able to get out can lead to a bone piercing agony thats unbearable and is worse if you have a small body mass like this child. Listen again to his screaming in the shower. That's not fear of the water, that's pain. Inflicting pain on that level is child abuse, certainly worse than anything I got from my father the Sergeant Major.
I can see this woman in 10 years, waking from a sound sleep to the feeling of her own child plunging a knife in her body.


Great point! Cold water feels like burning, we all know that. It doesn't matter whether it's causing any physical damage either, the child is clearly terrified. Another point that needs to be made to some of you thick-skulled people is that abuse is abuse. It doesn't matter what level it's at, how bad you think it is, it still had the capability of ruining the victim's life.

For instance, I spent a few years in a care home, I've seen young people who went through some terrible abuse, and some not so terrible. It doesn't change how that person is going to turn out, how they can develop patterns, kick up complex coping mechanisms, and end up with a life-long tendency for depression or much worse. If abuse has taken place - and there is no way that ridiculing a child, terrifying them, burning their mouth and dousing them with cold water isn't abuse by the way - then it will effect them, in small ways or huge, no one can know until often later on in their adult life.

Talking about how "well this happened to me and this is how I turned out" is completely pointless to the argument, because every person is different and will deal with childhood trauma differently, it's all relative. How about it doesn't happen in the first place and the risk is taken out of the equation, I like that idea best...

To all those who think a cold shower is not torture, you obviously haven't experienced immersion in cold water where you couldn't just get out. We've all had reason to have cold showers, hot weather, horniness, hangover. I've done the sauna thing jumping thru a hole cut in ice on a lake. I've participated in a polar bear swim in the Pacific and
Atlantic. In all these things getting in and out is your choice. Not being able to get out can lead to a bone piercing agony thats unbearable and is worse if you have a small body mass like this child. Listen again to his screaming in the shower. That's not fear of the water, that's pain. Inflicting pain on that level is child abuse, certainly worse than anything I got from my father the Sergeant Major.

I can see this woman in 10 years, waking from a sound sleep to the feeling of her own child plunging a knife in her body.

>> ^cito:

yea this is tame compared to most I see in rl here.
I've seen kids acting out in grocery store get snatched up and spanked with their mother's shoe in middle of aisle, and everyone else sighs a THANK YOU for it after the hellion finally calms down.
corporal punishment is a good thing, and I support it 100%, now constantly yelling and time outs and screaming doesn't work and never will. That's why a good paddling or belt to the bum will solve an unruly child.


This is not just corporal punishment. Hot sauce in the mouth for over a minute (you can see the volume of liquid when the child spits) and then doused in a who knows how cold shower... I can imagine that breathing through your nose with that in your mouth would be agony (depending on how hot the sauce is) and if you should accidentally inhale some?

And as others have said, just because there is worse out there doesn't make this justified or acceptable.

>> ^Gallowflak:


The fact that there is worse abuse is not an excuse for this brutal and disgusting behaviour.
The fact that she is being excused by people who seem to be intimately familiar with childhood abuse is, at the very least, disturbing and rather eye-opening.
The brutality that the mother is willing to resort to, no less than traumatizing her own child, is revolting. This bitch doesn't need your defence, nor should she have it; we have a word for people who display such malignancy... we call them sociopaths.

I'll go so far as to say this woman is probably reaping what she sowed. A certain amount of bad behavior is learned from bad parenting. But if you think children are raised in a perfect world where they listen to everything you say without question and never act out, and that the solution is rationalizing and giving them a hug then you're living in a dream. Seriously, you were sold some tsunami insurance for property in Colorado and the best part is you don't even know it. What f*cking Rousseau wet dream did you slurp off the floor? I dare you to raise a kid without limits and not call him a sociopath. Pull your head out and try a cold shower with some hot sauce. It's not bad. At the very least it's not worth your judgement. Half the world's population would beg for fresh water and hot sauce on a regular basis, this kid gets it for punishment. This was not trauma. This was a kid wailing because he got caught. What this kid got was discipline and structure. If you can't recognize the difference then God help your kids, because you can't.


But this is all moot. The woman broke no law, left no physical mark, and was within her rights as a parent. That means all willing to cast stones should put their nose someplace else. Gallowflak's "Fuck you" is a nice warm steaming pile to start with.

@Crunchy @Hive13 @spoco2 @Gallowflak @Sagemind @calvados @Reefie @Pantalones

I'm with reefie and pantalones on this one, yes I got my mouth washed out with soap but I also had a pair of boxing gloves thrown at me and strapped on while I got my ass kicked "so you dont hurt me." I'm not saying that everything here is exactly right; but the punishment was mild at best.

I don't particularly think that she's ridiculing him, the hot sauce and cold shower seem like alternative corporal punishments that have been established as consequences for the behavior. It seems like she's simply following through with said consequences.

Idk about everyone else, but i'll take hot sauce (something actually edible) over Dial soap and a cold shower (something uncomfortable but not really outright painful) over a belt or a punch to the face any day. So to be clear, to those calling this "abuse" I think you can find much much better examples of abuse that fit the definition of that word more precisely than what we have here.

Just for saying's sake, lets go with the best definition from freeonlinedictionary "To hurt or injure by maltreatment" or to take it a step further, lets look at the actual documents that define abuse in US courts: http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/whatiscan.cfm

I had a hard time finding anything on the childwelfare site that fit what happened here and defined what happened as abuse. On the other hand, when the site says under emotional abuse: "Permitted other maladaptive behavior—encouragement or permitting of other maladaptive behavior (e.g., chronic delinquency, severe assault) under circumstances where the parent or caregiver has reason to be aware of the existence and seriousness of the problem but does not intervene."

I would argue that if she did nothing in this situation that she could be complicit in committing emotional abuse (as defined by the child welfare site) but if the kid acted out at school and she did nothing I sincerely doubt anyone would be "not watching" for fear of what you might see (a kid not being receiving a consequence for bad behavior and lying). The punishments, although a bit unusual, are not anything to write home about. Those of you who disagree, I encourage you to prove me wrong with some legal citation (you know, instead of just saying "fuck you" ala Galoflak).

>> ^Pantalones:
That was pretty weak. Hot sauce and a cold shower? Please, I'd have taken that any day. Y'all need to see some real child abuse before you accost this woman as the spawn of hell. She was in control of her actions and the consequences sounded like they were predetermined.
Here's a measure of rationality: you're siding with Dr. Phil.


I mentioned getting mouthfuls of fairy washing up liquid when I lied or swore as a child, but didn't mention the thick leather belt with the huge buckle my mother kept for special occasions (well, mostly when she was drunk or in a bad mood so most of the time really), or the cane that my headmaster used for giving pupils 6 of the best (even the best behaved boys and girls could expect to be caned once a month). Did I mention we were also forced to take cold showers in the morning at school? Yes, it was a boarding school but thankfully a co-ed so it wasn't all bad Must've been worse for the Eton boys! I can take it, and I reckon most people who grew up with such abuse can too. Mind you, our definition of child abuse can be very different to the extremes of abuse in some other countries.

What I find hard to decide in any absolute terms is how much punishment is necessary to make people aware of the consequences for their actions. While I would never go to extremes with leather belts or canes I think there is a balance to be found for each individual child. Having said that, some things are just torturous and really aren't necessary. Finding the right balance of unpleasantness as a consequence is something that has to be decided and warranted for each wrongful act. Premeditated consequences like this only enforce a mental conditioning that prevents the child being able to properly express himself in later life.

To all those who are saying that a cold shower and some hot sauce is nothing - I believe you are wrong.

Yes, we do stuff like that to our friends - as a joke, Ha Ha.

That isn't what this is!

This is a child. The only thing he is feeling at this moment is fear.
Not the fear of letting someone down - as in, yes I got a card, I'm sorry, I screwed up - all I ever want to do is please you - because I love and respect you.
This is the , No Mommy, No mommy, Please don't, I trusted you, you were supposed to be the only person who would understand me type of fear. The feeling of betrayal, shock, utter dread, wanting to shrink into a fetal ball and hide type of fear.

This kid is only about 7 years old. A parent does everything they can to protect their child from experiencing this kind of fear. That's the job of a parent. "Protector!" Not by duty, but by instinct and love for your child.

If this causes tears, anger and utter rage in the eyes of people who are not this kids parent, just think what we would do if that was our child or your child). You'd not only want to rip out that woman's throat, you'd do it! Think about it, if you wouldn't let other people do that to your child, why the hell would it be OK for her to do it to any child, especially her own!

Not only is she using a punishment. She is using it to ridicule and belittle him, combined with the torturous punishment, and yes, it is torture to that child. She is striping him of right he has - and yes he has rights, every human being has.

I'll take a quick beating and a hug over psychological torture any day...>> ^Stu:

uhh ya, that's not much for people to be crying over. Nothing physical, some mental punishment. Call me when the kid is screamed at and thrown threw drywall. He can join the club.
Side note, hot sauce is delicious.>> ^Gallowflak:
>> ^Pantalones:
That was pretty weak. Hot sauce and a cold shower? Please, I'd have taken that any day. Y'all need to see some real child abuse before you accost this woman as the spawn of hell. She was in control of her actions and the consequences sounded like they were predetermined.
Here's a measure of rationality: you're siding with Dr. Phil.

Uh-huh.
Fuck you.

[redacted]