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Why Shell's Marketing is so Disgusting

bcglorf says...

@newtboy,

If North America is to adopt the Amish lifestyle, how many acres of land can the entire continent support? The typical Amish family farm is something like 80 acres is it not? I believe adopting this nationwide as a 'solution' requires massive population downsizing...

If you want to look at the poorest conditions of people in the world and advocate that the poverty stricken regions with no access to fossil fuel industry are the path forward, I would ask how you anticipate selling that to the people of California as being in their best interests to adopt as their new standard of living...

You mention overpopulation as a problem, then invent the argument that I think we should just ignore that and make it worse. Instead I only pointed out that immediately abandoning fossil fuels overnight would impact that overpopulation problem as well. It's like you do agree on one level, then don't like the implications or something?

The massive productivity of modern agriculture is dependent on fossil fuel usage. Similarly, our global population is also dependent upon that agricultural output. I find it hard to believe those are not clearly both fact. Please do tell me if you disagree. One inescapable conclusion to those facts is that reducing fossil fuel usage needs to at least be done with sufficient caution that we don't break the global food supply chain, because hungry people do very, very bad things.

Then you least catastrophic events that ARE NOT supported by the science and un-ironically claim that it's me who is ignoring the science.

You even have the audacity to ask if I appreciate the impacts of massive global food shortages, after having earlier belittled my concern about exactly that!

The IPCC shows that even in an absolute worst case scenario of accelerating emissions for the next century an estimated maximum sea level rise of 3ft, yet you talk about loss of 'most' farmland to the oceans...

Here's where I stand. If we can move off gas powered cars to electric, and onto a power grid that is either nuclear, hydro or renewable based in the next 50 years, our emissions before 2100 will drop significantly from today's levels. I firmly believe we are already on a very good course to expect that to occur very organically, with superior electric cars, and cheaper nuclear power and battery storage enabling renewables as economical alternatives to fossil fuels.

That future places us onto the IPCC's better scenarios where emissions peak and then actually decrease steadily through the rest of the century.

I'm hardly advocating lets sit back and do nothing, I'm advocating let's build the technology to make the population we have move into a reduced emissions future. We are getting close on major points for it and think that's great.

What I think is very damaging to that idea, is panicky advice demanding that we must all make massive economic sacrifices as fast as possible, because I firmly believe trying to enact reductions that way, fast enough to make a difference over natural progress, guarantees catastrophic wars now. Thankfully, that is also why nobody in sane leadership will give an ounce of consideration to such stupidity either. You need a Stalin or Mao type in charge to drive that kind change.

Why Shell's Marketing is so Disgusting

newtboy says...

No sir.
I even mentioned one group in America that never adopted petroleum...Amish...and I would counter your assertion with the fact that most people on earth don't live using oil, they're too poor, not too fortunate. 20-30 years ago, most Chinese had never been in a car or a commercial store bigger than a local vegetable stand.

Both customers and non customers are the victims.
Using (or selling) a product that clearly pollutes the air, land, and sea is immoral.

Yes, it's like our business is predicated on rebuilding wrecked cars overnight which we do by using massive amounts of meth. Sure, our products are death traps, sure, we lied about both our business practices and the safety of our product, sure, our teeth and brains are mush....but our business has been successful and allowed us to have 10 kids (8 on welfare, two adopted out), and if we quit using meth they'll starve and fight over scraps. That's proof meth is good and moral and you're mistaken to think otherwise. Duh.

Yes, we overpopulated, outpacing the planet's ability to support us by far...but instead of coming to terms with that and changing, many think we should just wring the juice out of the planet harder and have more kids. I think those people are narcissistic morons, we don't need more little yous. Sadly, we are well beyond the tipping point, even if no more people are ever born, those alive are enough to finish the biosphere's destruction. Guaranteed if they think like you seem to.

Um, really? Complete collapse of the food web isn't catastrophic?
Wars over hundreds of millions or billions of refugees aren't catastrophic? (odd because the same people who think that are incensed over thousands of Syrians, Africans, and or South and Central American refugees migrating)
Massive food shortage isn't catastrophic?
Loss of most farm land and hundreds of major cities to the sea isn't catastrophic?
Loss of corals, where >25% of ocean species live, and other miniscule organisms that are the base of the ocean food web isn't catastrophic?
Loss of well over 1/2 the producers of O2, and organisms that capture carbon, isn't catastrophic?
Eventual clouds of hydrogen sulfide from the ocean covering the land, poisoning 99%+ of all life isn't catastrophic?
Runaway greenhouse cycles making the planet uninhabitable for thousands if not hundreds of thousands or even millions of years isn't catastrophic?
Loss of access to water for billions of people isn't catastrophic?
I think you aren't paying attention to the outcomes here, and may be thinking only of the scenarios estimated for 2030-2050 which themselves are pretty scary, not the unavoidable planetary disaster that comes after the feedback loops are all fully in play. Try looking more long term....and note that every estimate of how fast the cycles collapse/reverse has been vastly under estimated....as two out of hundreds of examples, Greenland is melting faster than it was estimated to melt in 2075....far worse, frozen methane too.

You can reject the science, that doesn't make it wrong. It only makes you the ass who knowingly gambles with the planet's ability to support humans or other higher life forms based on nothing more than denial.

Edit: We are at approximately 1C rise from pre industrial records today, expected to be 1.5C in as little as 11 years. Even the IPCC (typically extremely conservative in their estimates) states that a 2C rise will trigger feedbacks that could exceed 12C. Many are already in full effect, like glacial melting, methane hydrate melting, peat burning, diatom collapse, coral collapse, forest fires, etc. It takes an average of 25 years for what we emit today to be absorbed (assuming the historical absorption cycles remain intact, which they aren't). That means we are likely well past the tipping point where natural cycles take over no matter what we do, and what we're doing is increasing emissions.

bcglorf said:

You asked at least 3 questions and all fo them very much leading questions.

To the first 2, my response is that it's only the extremely fortunate few that have the kind of financial security and freedom to make those adjustments, so lucky for them.

Your last question is:
do those companies get to continue to abdicate their responsibility, pawning it off on their customers?

Your question demands as part of it's base assumption that fossil fuels are inherently immoral or something and customers are clearly the victims. I reject that.

The entirety of the modern western world stands atop the usage of fossil fuels. If we cut ALL fossil fuel usage out tomorrow, mass global starvation would follow within a year, very nasty wars would rapidly follow that.

The massive gains in agricultural production we've seen over the last 100 years is extremely dependent on fossil fuels. Most importantly for efficiency in equipment run on fossil fuels, but also importantly on fertilizers produced by fossil fuels. Alternatives to that over the last 100 years did not exist. If you think Stalin and Mao's mass starvations were ugly, just know that the disruptions they made to agriculture were less severe than the gain/loss represented by fossil fuels.

All that is to state that simply saying don't use them because the future consequences are bad is extremely naive. The amount of future harm you must prove is coming is enormous, and the scientific community as represented by the IPCC hasn't even painted a worst case scenario so catastrophic.

Could Earth's Heat Solve Our Energy Problems?

newtboy says...

Iceland uses this tech for 30% of their electricity and over 85% of their heating needs. It also heats public baths like the Blue Lagoon geothermal spa.
Unfortunately, East Oregon and Idaho where our best geothermal locations are are sparsely populated, so it's unlikely the U.S. will adopt it.
*quality

Antifa Surrounds Man & Daughter During Portland

newtboy says...

Once again, you ignore fact to spread dishonest propaganda.

This sure looks more like idiot right wing man took his daughter into an Antifa crowd to start a fight he wanted recorded.....again....and repeatedly abandoned his daughter in the process of trying to start fights for the camera.
Who waded into the opposing crowd with their "I hate you" messages? Who is dressed for battle? Who has a metal weapon? Who tried to hit multiple others with that weapon first?

Why don't we see the instigation, only the response? That's obvious to those with a brain....because right wing moron intentionally started a physical fight with a crowd with his child present.

What happens if you wear an AOC shirt at a Patriot Prayer rally? Or an "i hate Trump and the right" shirt? Far worse than this every time.


Republicans now happily include the KKK, Bob. Democrats abandoned racism in the 60's when the Republicans turned to it for survival.
They gladly courted the American racists to get Trump "elected", and for 3 years now have furthered the racist agenda....and you love it...you continuously call it winning.
Democrats denounce Antifa, Republicans say the KKK are good people, patriotic Americans, and gladly welcome in the Republican party, even as representatives.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

You know every word of this, but disingenuously spread totally dishonest and divisive propaganda like you get paid in rubles.
So dishonest and dumb, Bob. You don't convince a single person to adopt your dishonest viewpoint with this lame propaganda.

bobknight33 said:

One can argue that Antifa are the fascist.

Antifa is the 21st Century terrorist arm of the Democrat party.

Guess Democrats moved on from the 19 and 20th Century KKK form of terrorism. Democrats do own the black vote now they are going after all the rest.

Is this what the Democrat party slogan of Move Forward represent? KKK to Antifa.

shinyblurry (Member Profile)

shinyblurry says...

When you want to paint your own picture, it's helpful to leave out a few details. An important detail that you left out is that it took Noah 100 years to build the Ark. The scripture tells us that Noah was a preacher of righteousness and he pleaded with the people of the pre-flood world to escape the coming judgment. He didn't have a single convert proving the truth of what God had said about that world:

Genesis 6:5

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually

You also mentioned that you think Gods requirements are impossible. That is true except for one exception; they are not impossible when the Lord Jesus Christ has come into your life and changed you. As a Christian who is far from perfect I meet Gods requirements. His requirement is this, that we believe in His Son Jesus Christ and live for Him.

It's impossible without Christ to do what God wants. If you have Christ in your life you are well able to meet Gods requirements because what God is looking for is faith. He requires that you repent from your sins and receive the forgiveness He has provided for you through Christ. When you do that God will adopt you as His son and give you eternal life. That isn't the MO of a despot.

We here in America like to believe we are good people morally and that is how people present themselves in the public square. Yet we see all of the crime statistics and civil unrest in the country which is the spillover from the greatest character crisis this nation has ever faced. God sees it all, every wicked thing done in the dark and He knows what man is really like. It takes humility to admit that about yourself and realize that God is right about the carnality and futility of what men do in this world. It is only through Christ that men have received light to do what is eternally significant instead of living for their own selfish ends.

newtboy said:

God so loved the world

Military dance Katyusha solo

Vegan Diet or Mediterranean Diet: Which Is Healthier?

newtboy says...

Lol. Good point.....dirty hippies. ;-)

Um....what? Vegans should want to avoid them almost as much as the hunter's helper and slaughterhouse sucker brand lozenges, not flock to the brand marketed at meat harvesters.

Um...really? You think non vegans fear a vegan culinary takeover or something enough to falsify studies/polls? That's hilarious.
As to the 7% number, even vegan organizations in Britain disagree, as does Wiki....
According to a 2018 survey by Comparethemarket.com, the number of people who identify as vegans in the United Kingdom has risen to over 3.5 million, which is approximately seven percent of the population, and environmental concerns were a major factor in this development.[140] However, doubt was cast on this inflated figure by the UK-based Vegan Society, who perform their own regular survey: the Vegan Society themselves found in 2018 that there were 600,000 vegans in Great Britain (1.16%), which is a dramatic increase on previous figures.[141][142]
United States: Estimates of vegans in the U.S. vary from 2% (Gallup, 2012)[143] to 0.5% (Faunalytics, 2014). According to the latter, 70% of those who adopted a vegan diet abandoned it.

transmorpher said:

Clearly the statistics are stacked because we all know real vegans don't have jobs

I'd take the Fisherman's Friend study with a grain of salt :-) For starters it's going to be a biased sample, and for all we know it just means sick vegans prefer to buy Fisherman's Friend Lozengers than non-vegans.

They are going really hard with fear mongering in the UK, because veganism is taking hold - 7% of the population is now vegan :-)

Hellboy - Official Trailer David Harbour, Milla Jovovich

ChaosEngine says...

“He also is unaware of the powers of his right hand and begins to learn the truth about it over the course of the film, testing his already-strained relationship with his adopted dad Trevor Bruttenholm”

Fair enough, it’s not an origin story, but that doesn’t sound a million miles away from the plot of the first movie.

That said, I loved both of those movies and this (despite the lack of Del Toro) looks great too.

Britain's Largest Battery Is Actually A Lake

newtboy says...

It's a proposal, but at $3 billion price tag (meaning more like > $4.5 billion when finished), the plan to pump water 20 miles back up river into the already silting over lake Mead isn't likely to be adopted....at least I hope not. For one thing, it would mean the river would often end at the new pump station, which no one downstream would agree to and likely would be opposed on ecological grounds too.

Ashenkase said:

Hover dam is slated to have a similar system installed I believe.

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

Diablo And The Doobage.

Pigeon protecting it's 'baby'.

Doctors Urge Americans: GO VEGAN!

newtboy jokingly says...

Since we all get our own definition, my new definition is going to be eating only meat from herbivorous animals and nothing else, hence my proposed diet is a "plant based diet" instead of "vegetarian diet". That puts adopters two steps away from directly eating shit instead of just one. ;-)

eric3579 said:

Seems plant based diet is defined differently for different people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant-based_diet

When i (we all know my opinion is the best) use the term, i'm referring to vegetables, whole grains, nuts, seeds, legumes and fruits exclusively, and anything outside this i'd assume is hijacking of the term. Both a vegan diet and a diet including animal products don't fit my definition. My opinion and definition feels the best to me. I am the most important. Get off my lawn.

"Free The Glutens" Tom Waits Interview 2015 Letterman



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