What was you question of me? One gets tired of you tangent straw man arguments and can get lost in you incoherent gibberish.



Also reading some books and tagging along with you mom at the hospital does not make you a Doctor or any medical official.



Your medical degree is in what?
Bullshitology?



Yet you haven't responded to this simple question...

So AGAIN

Elitist Tool:
What actual hands on knowledge you you fucking have about this topic?


Or is this you response...
You saw a 6 week old cell clusters twitch ..


Was this a YouTube or your spent jizz left in the fridge as a "scientific" study?

That is a nerve pulse, not a heart beat, and any competent tech knows the difference.
A pulse starts at 6-10 weeks, the heart takes over 20 before it's a heart. Any tech that sees a heartbeat at 6 weeks needs retraining....There's NO FUCKING HEART TO BEAT!

No, doctors do not relay 100% of what the tech writes...have you ever had one?! I've had a few. They also edit, even reject reports that have errors. Claiming they see a heart beating at 6 weeks would be an error, a grievous error.

Mom dragged me to work and I met ultrasound techs (among other medical professionals). That's what you asked, how many I had met. You fucking asked, moron. Why did YOU ask how many I had met if it's irrelevant?! You're a fucking two year old.

Take your meds....you've lost your fucking mind, you're over triggered, and you took too much meth last night. Try again when you can string a rational thought together.

You're talking about techs knowing more than the doctors because they see the scans daily....but they don't see hearts on those scans, they see a microscopic twitch in a few cells.

Hands on knowledge?....more than you, I passed biology (up to advanced molecular organic chemistry, you never even dissected anything I would guess)). Those with hands on knowledge and medical training say there's no heartbeat with no heart, and no heart until over 20 weeks after conception.

If you are implying I I should shut the fuck up because (you assume) I have no first hand experience seeing 6 week old cell clusters twitch, why are you talking about anything? You not only have no experience, but you have no knowledge, no education, no clue.
I've at least seen multiple videos of such "twitches", which is all one sees in person, and there's barely even a tube, there's not one structure of a heart formed, and there's absolutely not a functional heart for months by anyone's theory.

Triggered much?!

If people who see it daily call it a heart beat, then clearly reading a book is better, because you can't get a heart beat without a heart, and a valveless, chamberless tube that doesn't pump isn't a heart. If you look at a straw day in and day out and you start to see it as a heart, actually seeing it is worse. If you go to school and say you see the heart at 6 weeks, you fail.

Jebus. Double negative and heart best? Are you drunk?

I do think +-90% of them know, 10% believe they hear a heart beat because they can now detect a faint nerve signal, but no heart. That 10% are fooling themselves to avoid contradicting their beliefs with medical fact.

What bubble? Did I say they didn't? That doesn't make them doctors. Lab techs do the same...mri techs, even x-Ray techs in some places. Would you let a tech determine your treatment plan, or even diagnose you without a real doctor involved? They aren't even nurses, they know how to run the machine and spot certain results for further investigation/treatment. The doctors review and often edit the reports. If a report of a 6 week pregnancy talked about the heart, that tech would be let go for incompetence. There is no heart.

Dumb fuck, you asked me how many I've talked to. I answered, with an explanation of why I’ve met many. Now you act like I brought it up to say I know some, so I am one?! Are you on meth?

Mom worked at Texas Children's hospital and Methodist hospital in Houston, so yes, those specialists and many many many more, and being curious I asked them lots of questions.

Because my mom worked at a childrens hospital means I knew sonographers and ultrasound techs, there's a difference, which was your question. Jesus, you're like Ritalin kid from smoking aces....to yourself you're fighting this amazing fight with spinning kicks and flips so amazing it gets you hard, but to everyone else you're flailing wildly and are just annoying, not a dangerous opponent to be feared or respected.

Reading a book and actually seeing the development day in and day out are NOT the same.

You don't think Ultrasound sonographers don't know what a heart best is?

Hate to burst you bubble. These techs scan , write up the report and tell the Dr. The techs also determine the age of development and also the estimate of due date. They also tell tell the Dr if you have a still born. The Dr then tells the patient.

The Dr reviews the report and look at the images if needed.

You mom worked at the hospital and you met a lot of doctors. That does not make you a DR nor you mom. Also were these
OB/GYN doctors
Rad Doctors
Oncology Doctors
Cardiac Doctors


Just because you mom work at a hospital doesn't mean much.

Try again tool boy.

Nazi killed people
Abortion kills people

This bill helps stops the killing.

So how is this comparable ?

Having the father / grand parents a legal recourse against murdering doctors is not
not a bad thing.

Don't think the Uber driver or school teachers desiring to cash in on this.

I don't have to do ultrasounds to read the biological foetal evolution of a prehuman. There's no question here about the facts. That's the advantage of being able to read a text book.

Do you think ultrasound technicians and sonographers are doctors? Think again.

Mom worked at the biggest hospital in Texas for years, so I've met more than I counted. I also met doctors.

If you could read a text book, the science isn't in question. A tube that perhaps slightly twitches but has no mechanism to pump fluid is not a heart, it's a nerve signal from the cluster of cells that eventually will become a brain to pump when one is there months later, nothing more at 6 weeks. Calling it a heart beat is lying. There's no heart to beat. It's like calling a wire and battery a computer because computers use wires and electricity. The rest just isn't there.

I'm from Texas. I support Abortion. No contraceptive is 100% effective, not even if you combine them. If you don't understand that, study how percentages work.

Secondly, kids are hormonally driven creatures. They are literally under the influence of natural chemicals driving them to procreate.

Not every school or parent teaches them about contraceptives. In fact, you will find most 'Christians" only support abstinence. This is the equivalent of telling a chemically dependent addict to "Just Say No!" How well did that work in the drug war back in the day? (Hint: However, despite DARE's bold claims, research has shown that the program has failed spectacularly.)

Third, the people who are most affected by this new law are the people that can least afford the better contraceptives or having a child in a non-stable family environment. This won't bother a middle class or rich family at all, they can just send the kid off to an "aunt" in another state until the issue is resolved. Those kids from poor families will just be forced to have the kid and likely it will ruin their lives. This doesn't even take into account that the new law doesn't have ANY exceptions for rape or incest.

Fourth, the USA was founded on religious freedom. In other words, you get to believe what you want and others get to do the same. This means that if a religious person tells another person that something they are doing is forbidden due to morality contained in their religion, that other person can tell you to fuck right off. Church and State are supposed to be separate, but the Christian right think they should be able to legislate their religious ideas on others. Do you not see the hypocrisy here?

I'm nominally a conservative. Sadly that means that I get lumped in with you ultra far right wackos that want to turn the USA into a religious state like Iran or Afghanistan. I'm not leaving my home state because some religious nut jobs think it is OK to kill adults by lethal injection but that it is BAD to kill some cells that are multiplying.

Btw, the cardiac activity detected on ultrasound at six weeks is not a true heartbeat. It results from electrical activity, but the valves of the heart have not yet formed. And the sound does not indicate the pregnancy is viable. Women typically don't notice they are pregnant until they miss a period. So if they are unlucky, they may already be close to four weeks pregnant. That leaves them two weeks to confirm it with a doctor, since home tests are not 100%, get together money for the abortion, find a clinic, and schedule an appointment that falls within the remaining time period. Since this law will cause even more clinics to close in Texas, you can add travel and patient backlog to the time. A teen could do everything right and still miss out on the lottery for an appointment, dramatically changing their life for years.

But at least some smug religious person can sip their coffee and be proud they enforced their morality on some evil women that dared sleep around out of wedlock.

So, to paraphrase, Forget legality, forget definition, forget reality, I want to call it murder so I will.
What utter infantile nonsense.

Texas doesn't call it murder, so they can't execute anyone. In fact, if I read it right, they just fine you like a traffic ticket. The legal consequences prove you're alone in calling it murder, the fact that you don't think execution is the right outcome for every person involved from the doctors and nurses to the taxi drivers all the way to the mothers should be executed proves you don't think it's murder either, you just like to exaggerate.

The unborn are not human beings by definition or by law, not even by religious definition or law, so murder is impossible. That is by all definitions and by all laws. Get over it. You're simply wrong and have to fudge definitions, the law, religious teachings, and all logic and reason to make the arguments you're making.

It's clear you didn't read the article @noseeem linked for you. You really should.

Legally its not, you just have to look at the punishment to see that. legality aside, killing another innocent human being is murder. I'm just calling it for what it is and not hiding behind a legal term.

"TX can execute them. If the doctor and staff that performed the termination are known and enter TX they are murderers also. They can be killed by the state, too." When did I say that ? Your grasping at straws now. You know the legal consequences of those actions in Texas.

Definition
Murder: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another

Now it's not so easy.

Even TX recognizes women can terminate a pregnancy. They just decided to game the system to make it difficult to obtain in TX.

It's not murder.

But - in your mind - if mother and daughter drive to another state, one of them have the procedure, then returned, the daughter and mother, are now murderers. TX can execute them. If the doctor and staff that performed the termination are known and enter TX they are murderers also. They can be killed by the state, too.

Nope. Not that easy.

Because it is not murder.

Let this guy make that case: https://tinyurl.com/ma4sjz3v

Thanks for your honesty. And responding. So many just spout and run out.

My two cents, the old axiom, your right to swing your first ends at my nose, seems to apply.

I think people should pay for their choices, so eating poorly, pay more for insurance....Lots more. Ignore doctors advice, lose all benefits of insurance and pay for your own care, and from the back of the line too. When that choice has a good chance of costing someone else's life or health, that's the line imo. You cannot ever repay that kind of debt, so you shouldn't be allowed to take it on, nor should people be allowed to gamble with other people's health and lives.

Hey there. Devil's advocate here.

Should we tell people who eat poorly to fuck off, too? What about any people who go off of their doctor's advice?

Don't get me wrong, I'm heavily in your corner. I would say the pandemic is a special case, not because it takes up hospital beds unnecessarily (which most of them do since heart disease, the #1 killer, is a disease of lifestyle), but because it immediately puts others in danger, outside the hospital.

The question of freedom vs. public health is easy in this case, but when does it become overreach? On the other (very far) end of the spectrum is eugenics.

Refusing a vaccine should be like smoking, being a heroin addict, or not wearing your seatbelt, a legal reason for insurance companies to deny coverage.

I heard some major multinational corporations are charging their employees who aren't vaccinated $200+ a month extra for medical benefits. A good start, but it should be more if not just a complete forfeiture.

In Florida doctors did a walkout this morning to protest the huge numbers of unvaccinated morons needing hospitalization, and how they've overwhelmed an already long term overworked and understaffed industry to the breaking point.

Being vulnerable is a choice, one with very expensive consequences. Those making the choice should pay their own bills...they're invariably the same people that scream about taking personal responsibility when it comes to others. 100% of hospitalization and deaths in the last months in my county have been unvaccinated people, and they're unable to treat anyone else because they're over capacity now.

It's FDA approved, it should be mandatory.

Imo, anti vaxers should be given fournier's gangrene in icu, then told there's no one available to treat it.

FUCK these people.

Fuck them with a rake.

Fuck them. Fuck their "muh FWEEDUMS!" bullshit. Fuck their double-digit IQs and fuck anyone who encourages these cocksuckers to be the Typhoid Mary motherfuckers who need to be put on an island and neutron bombed until the carbon in their cells gives up and bails.

I've mentioned before that one of my clients is a major healthcare provider, the largest on west coast. The worthless fucking parasites who refuse to be vaccinated are going to jack your insurance rates into the stratosphere because they're being treated first in the ER (major profit center for hospitals) and then the ICU (where $10k a day is the low end). The best case scenario is that they get on with it and go have a talk with Hitler in Hell, but no -- these cunts have to hang on and take up a bed that won't be available for the guy who just had a massive coronary, take up doctor's and nurse's time while they cover their distance between living dumbfuck and dead dumbfuck at a snail's pace, and fuck us all by running up multi-million dollar bills that they can't pay, they won't pay, and that they'll dump on the rest of us when they're done gasping the oxygen that belongs to people who aren't idiots.

These goddamn parasites can't die fast enough. I laugh whenever I hear some moron bewailing the fact he didn't get the vaccine and now Death is check his watch outside the door. You want to exercise the "right" to not be vaccinated (which you don't legally have in the first place), fine: die at home, hopefully in agony, and let your family leave your corpse on the sidewalk as an abject lesson in why being a complete fucking idiot doesn't pay.

Fuck I hate these goddamn people.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2021/08/20/ive-never-seen-anything-like-this-houston-doctor-says-hundreds-of-patients-are-waiting-to-be-admit
ted-into-hospitals-but-there-are-no-beds/

Or don't. I feel empathy burnout for idiots like you. I just hope you don't take too many down the Q-hole with you while you're drowning on land.