Maybe or maybe not.

Yep, this is why these oppressive regimes don't allow reporters to cover the events. Its easy to dismiss citizen journalism and question its authenticity. Both Iran and Syria kicked out all international reporters right before the crackdown.

>> ^eric3579:

Maybe or maybe not.

>> ^theali:

Yep, this is why these oppressive regimes don't allow reporters to cover the events. Its easy to dismiss citizen journalism and question its authenticity. Both Iran and Syria kicked out all international reporters right before the crackdown.

Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure they kicked out all foreigners. Can't really blame them when Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.

Why did the reporter not move/duck/run/hide?

it's SNUFF at the end.... someone freak out

I was not aware of that, could you reference unbiased sources on this claim?

I saw similar accusations when the protests broke out in Iran, but people have real grievances and are disgruntled with lack of freedom and mismanagement of the country.

>> ^marbles:

>> ^theali:
Yep, this is why these oppressive regimes don't allow reporters to cover the events. Its easy to dismiss citizen journalism and question its authenticity. Both Iran and Syria kicked out all international reporters right before the crackdown.
Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure they kicked out all foreigners. Can't really blame them when Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.

>> ^theali:

I was not aware of that, could you reference unbiased sources on this claim?
I saw similar accusations when the protests broke out in Iran, but people have real grievances and are disgruntled with lack of freedom and mismanagement of the country.
>> ^marbles:
>> ^theali:
Yep, this is why these oppressive regimes don't allow reporters to cover the events. Its easy to dismiss citizen journalism and question its authenticity. Both Iran and Syria kicked out all international reporters right before the crackdown.
Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure they kicked out all foreigners. Can't really blame them when Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.



Unbiased? So no mainstream news media then?

I'll see what I can find tomorrow. CIA or MI6 doesn't exactly issue press releases.

There was a failed color revolution in Iran in 2009. I believe there are Wikileaks cables confirming it and the operation in Syria.

I think there is a lot of grieved and disgruntled young Arab people who want freedom who are being manipulated and used by geopolitical forces outside their country.

Hmm... but you DID say "main instigators of rebellions". So you'd have to somehow show that. A wealth of evidence in its favour in a large number of recent rebellions would do me - dunno about theali.

Otherwise, it's just an easy way to keep a lid on things that you've bought into?

Link plz.

>> ^marbles:
There was a failed color revolution in Iran in 2009. I believe there are Wikileaks cables confirming it and the operation in Syria.

When @marbles joins the discussion, it goes left into * conspiracy land.

I second that link request!

Wikileaks released some US embassy cables, which was of communications between some of Iran's neighboring arab states and US. Those states have competing interests with Iran and are not its allies. In those cables, the arab states told US, what US wanted to hear, which was that Iran is a problem. The arab states are worried about Iran becoming nuclear and a superpower. That information was well known and the arab states all had close relations with US already.

These cables revealed no information on a "color revolution", so I am curious to see marbles sources on his wikileaks claim.

>> ^RedSky:

Link plz.
>> ^marbles:
There was a failed color revolution in Iran in 2009. I believe there are Wikileaks cables confirming it and the operation in Syria.

@ the end of the video clip...

Reason # 1 of why you shouldn't throw stones at people with guns.

@theali @dannym3141 @RedSky

U.S. secretly backed Syrian opposition: report
U.S. secretly backed Syrian opposition groups
U.S. Groups Helped Nurture Arab Uprisings
U.S. funding tech firms that help Mideast dissidents evade government censors
It's Official: "Arab Spring" Subversion is US Funded
US trains activists to evade security forces
Google's Revolution Factory - Alliance of Youth Movements: Color Revolution 2.0
Former CIA agent tells: How US infiltrates "civil society" to overthrow governments
The Revolution Business - World
'US trains Jundullah members'
US 'has intelligence agents working in Iran' - 24 June 09
Kissinger threatens regime change in Iran if coup fails
Proof: Israeli Effort to Destabilize Iran Via Twitter #IranElection
Bush sanctions 'black ops' against Iran
Iranian Unrest: Evidence Of Western Intelligence Meddling
Iran busts another CIA network
Soros, the CIA, Mossad and the new media destabilization of Iran
Brookings' "Which Path to Persia?"
"Stolen Elections" Battle Cry of the Color Revolution

@marbles

Thanks for sharing your sources with us, I have not followed details of Syria's events, but I can respond to the articles about Iran.

Re: US trains activists to evade security forces
Offering tools that circumvent government censorship firewalls, is not instigation. Iran's government has strict rules for ISPs to share information with the government, much like the warrantless wiretapping in US. If HTTPS circumvents the wiretapping, then is IETF instigating revolution in US?

Re: 'US trains Jundullah members'
Jundullah is a terrorist group, has nothing to do with peaceful protests and civil movements in Iran.

Re: 'has intelligence agents working in Iran'
Duh, of course and Iran has intelligence working in US. Is the Wisconsin labour movement instigated by Iran? http://www.presstv.com/detail/168937.html

Re: Kissinger threatens regime change in Iran if coup fails
Kissinger said that if the government is NOT democratic, then US would work for regime change. US is doing that right now with the global sanctions on Iran. You can't take his words and say that the millions that protested after the election were all tricked by US propaganda and spies!

Re: Proof: Israeli Effort to Destabilize Iran Via Twitter #IranElection
Online activities such as twitter and facebook are reports of what's going on, not the actual events. People went to the streets and protested, they were shot, killed and prisoned. You need to look at the number of people that risked their lives to measure their force and influence, not twittes!

Re: Iranian Unrest: Evidence Of Western Intelligence Meddling
"CIA/Mossad flooding Iranians with contradicting SMS messages"
I never hear of any broadcast SMS messages in support of the protestors. Government did send threatening SMS messages to discourage people from going to protests. People SMSed each other, but that way you know the person that SMSed you. If I get a SMS from a number I don't recognize, I would just ignore it, but if my friend tells me something, then I would listen!

This is exactly how it happen (eye witness report), after they announced that Ahmadinejad won the election, it was late in the evening, people were in disbelieve, they walked out of their houses and talked with neighbors, once they saw that all around them were Mousavi supporters and no one that was cheering Ahmadinejad's victory. If Ahmadinejad has majority support in their riding, as the polling stations had reported, then where are those supporters? After that evening people knew that they has cheated, from talking to neighbors face to face, and NOT from a twitter fed for god's sake. The west learned about it from twitter, not people inside Iran!

Re: Iran busts another CIA network
Iran's government labels any dissenters as US backed agents or drug dealers. Are the people working to free Bradley Manning agents of foreign governments? Now the hard liners in Iran are accusing Ahmadinejad of initiating negotiations with US and are calling for his impeachment. US is the boogyman used to justify any action that the regime wants to take. Like the "terrorist" threat in america, used to take away people's freedoms, its not REAL!

Re: Soros, the CIA, Mossad and the new media destabilization of Iran
This article is a rehash of the previous ones, no new points here.

Just because governments are spreading propaganda against each other, it doesn't mean that the civil movements inside those countries are made up of manipulated and instigated people!
US caught off-guard by Iran sanctions
Iran to sue US over human rights abuse

@theali

I appreciate the response, but I didn't really post a bunch of links to have a debate about it. I don't mind being called out if I write a check that I can't cash. But you have to connect your own dots.

You're fooling yourself if you think the protests in Iran following the 2009 elections weren't a soft coup attempt. I was mistaken that a leaked State Department cable confirmed it.

Did you read the "Which Path to Persia" manual? Why didn't you respond to the "Bush sanctions 'black ops' against Iran" article. Those 2 are the smoking guns. Did you watch the "The Revolution Business - World" video? They briefly mention Iran at @5:12 Green "fist logo" (same logo as the other staged revolutions), @17:00 "revolution trainer" who "instructs the opposition movements in Iran", @22:42 clip from Iranian propaganda video depicting Gene Sharp, author of the revolution handbook being used. Iran is barely mentioned in the video because the operation was such a huge failure. And you're response to the Kissinger video is hilarious. How is sanctions working from the inside (opposed to working from the outside) to achieve regime change?

@marbles

Who flew planes into the WTC on 9/11? By the way, I read "Which Path to Persia".

Have you heard of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion?"

>> ^marbles:

>> ^theali:
Yep, this is why these oppressive regimes don't allow reporters to cover the events. Its easy to dismiss citizen journalism and question its authenticity. Both Iran and Syria kicked out all international reporters right before the crackdown.
Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure they kicked out all foreigners. Can't really blame them when Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.


Your statements are utterly disgusting Marbles. I don't care if you honestly believe the propaganda garbage being spewed by Bashir Al-Assad's government or not. The last time a revolution was tried in Syria, his father went to war with the Muslim brotherhood(not a gang the west is liable to use as a loving proxy) and the Syrian army turned nearly an entire town into a parking lot to demonstrate their 'point'.

Go listen to the accounts of the thousands of Syrian refugees in Turkey who fled the Military onslaught against civilians. Bashir Al-Assad's special forces executed nearly 120 army soldiers when the refused to fire on unarmed civilians.

It's is simply disgusting and inexcusable to defend the horrific onslaught against civilians that Syria is pursuing, even if you do loath America and deem it as the great Satan responsible for all the world's ills, in what world does that make it ok for Syria's army to go around killing unarmed civilians in massive numbers????????

I think there is a lot of grieved and disgruntled young Arab people who want freedom who are being manipulated and used by geopolitical forces outside their country.

You are insulting and demeaning those young Arab people. Who is using who among the Libyan rebels? As much as the UN is using the rebels, the rebels are equally using the UN sanctioned air support.

Much akin the the Kurd's while Saddam still ruled(presumably what you consider the good old days). As much as America used them to undermine Saddam, the Kurds equally used America's support to.... what for it.... undermine Saddam.

When two groups have the same goal and work together to achieve it, it is NOT the same as the smaller group being some helpless proxy puppet of the larger.

Let's be more open here Marbles, if the people of Iran and Syria actually DO want regime change, do you still vehemently oppose that happening solely because America shares that goal and offers assistance?

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^marbles:
>> ^theali:
Yep, this is why these oppressive regimes don't allow reporters to cover the events. Its easy to dismiss citizen journalism and question its authenticity. Both Iran and Syria kicked out all international reporters right before the crackdown.
Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure they kicked out all foreigners. Can't really blame them when Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.

Your statements are utterly disgusting Marbles. I don't care if you honestly believe the propaganda garbage being spewed by Bashir Al-Assad's government or not. The last time a revolution was tried in Syria, his father went to war with the Muslim brotherhood(not a gang the west is liable to use as a loving proxy) and the Syrian army turned nearly an entire town into a parking lot to demonstrate their 'point'.
Go listen to the accounts of the thousands of Syrian refugees in Turkey who fled the Military onslaught against civilians. Bashir Al-Assad's special forces executed nearly 120 army soldiers when the refused to fire on unarmed civilians.
It's is simply disgusting and inexcusable to defend the horrific onslaught against civilians that Syria is pursuing, even if you do loath America and deem it as the great Satan responsible for all the world's ills, in what world does that make it ok for Syria's army to go around killing unarmed civilians in massive numbers????????


I'm sorry you feel that way. I find it really disgusting you have to make me into something I'm not so you can attack me. I didn't say anything about killing unarmed civilians. The truth is we don't know who is killing the civilians. And for you to get so emotionally invested in it is foolish. BTW The Muslim brotherhood was started by British Intelligence. When you own both sides of the conflict, you always win.
I don't hate America, but I do hate the power elite that use the US government to be economic hit-men all around the world. Don't be fooled. That is exactly what is going on in North Africa/Middle East.

>> ^bcglorf:

I think there is a lot of grieved and disgruntled young Arab people who want freedom who are being manipulated and used by geopolitical forces outside their country.
You are insulting and demeaning those young Arab people. Who is using who among the Libyan rebels? As much as the UN is using the rebels, the rebels are equally using the UN sanctioned air support.
Much akin the the Kurd's while Saddam still ruled(presumably what you consider the good old days). As much as America used them to undermine Saddam, the Kurds equally used America's support to.... what for it.... undermine Saddam.
When two groups have the same goal and work together to achieve it, it is NOT the same as the smaller group being some helpless proxy puppet of the larger.
Let's be more open here Marbles, if the people of Iran and Syria actually DO want regime change, do you still vehemently oppose that happening solely because America shares that goal and offers assistance?

Yeah, much akin to the Kurds. Where did that get them? We encouraged them to support us in Desert Storm and then let hundreds of thousands get slaughtered after we pulled out. Saddam was our puppet. WE DID THAT. We armed Saddam with chemical weapons to fight Iran. We told Saddam to invade Kuwait after Kuwait was slant drilling and stealing oil. We told Saddam we would back him up. And then we get on our high horse and bitch slap Saddam around. WTF It's all bullshit, it always has been.


So now we're in Libya on a humanitarian mission? We're bombing civilians in Tripoli for humanitarian purposes? The groups that we're "working together" with in Libya is al-Qaeda linked rebels. Libya was a world leader in Al Qaeda suicide bomber recruitment during the Iraq war and North-eastern Libya has one of the greatest concentrations of jihadi terrorists anywhere in the world. Obama's humanitarian mission to protect "civilians" is a complete farce. He's aiding a rebel force of jihadi terrorists, the same terrorists that were killing US troops in Iraq.

>>@bmacs27: marbles
Who flew planes into the WTC on 9/11? By the way, I read "Which Path to Persia".
Have you heard of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion?"



Haha, let me guess. You have a argument to make that the "Which Path to Persia" manual is fraudulent?

So is that 9/11 question troll bait or what? Who made all the abnormal amount of Wall Street put bets on American Airlines and United between Sept 6 and 7. And on American Sept 10 at the Chicago Board of Options Exchange. Better yet, who sent US government made anthrax with hand written notes saying "Allah is great" to Congress men who were likely to oppose the Patriot Act?

Oh the alleged hijackers (courtesy of Paul Joseph Watson/Infowars.com):
Every single shred of evidence concerning the alleged 9/11 hijackers points to the fact that they were patsies controlled by informants working for the US government.
The US Special Operations Command’s Able Danger program identified the hijackers and their accomplices long before 9/11, but when the head of the program, Colonel Anthony Shaffer, tried to pass the information on to the 9/11 Commission, he was gagged and slandered and the vital information his team had passed on was ignored and buried.
Curt Weldon, Former U.S. Republican Congressman and senior member of the House Armed Services Committee, documented how the US government tracked the hijackers’ movements before 9/11.
Louai al-Sakka, the man who trained six of the hijackers, was a CIA informant. A number of the other alleged hijackers were trained at US air bases. In the months prior to 9/11, alleged hijackers Khalid Almidhar and Nawaf Alhazmi were renting rooms in a house owned and lived in by an FBI informant.
In a 2002 article entitled The Hijackers We Let Escape, Newsweek’s Michael Isikoff and Daniel Klaidman documented how, “The CIA tracked two suspected terrorists to a Qaeda summit in Malaysia in January 2000, then looked on as they re-entered America and began preparations for September 11.”
The fact that there were numerous Al-Qaeda affiliated terrorists involved in the pre-planning stages of 9/11 is unsurprising given former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds’ testimony that Bin Laden was working for the US right up until the day of 9/11.

On the very morning of 9/11, the money man behind the alleged hijackers, Pakistan’s ISI Chief Mahmoud Ahmad, was meeting with U.S. government and intelligence officials.
Indeed, even after 9/11, the so-called spiritual leader of the very hijackers who allegedly slammed Flight 77 into the Pentagon, Anwar al-Awlaki, was himself invited to dine with Pentagon top brass mere months after the attack.

>> ^marbles:

>> ^bcglorf:
>> ^marbles:
>> ^theali:
Yep, this is why these oppressive regimes don't allow reporters to cover the events. Its easy to dismiss citizen journalism and question its authenticity. Both Iran and Syria kicked out all international reporters right before the crackdown.
Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure they kicked out all foreigners. Can't really blame them when Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.

Your statements are utterly disgusting Marbles. I don't care if you honestly believe the propaganda garbage being spewed by Bashir Al-Assad's government or not. The last time a revolution was tried in Syria, his father went to war with the Muslim brotherhood(not a gang the west is liable to use as a loving proxy) and the Syrian army turned nearly an entire town into a parking lot to demonstrate their 'point'.
Go listen to the accounts of the thousands of Syrian refugees in Turkey who fled the Military onslaught against civilians. Bashir Al-Assad's special forces executed nearly 120 army soldiers when the refused to fire on unarmed civilians.
It's is simply disgusting and inexcusable to defend the horrific onslaught against civilians that Syria is pursuing, even if you do loath America and deem it as the great Satan responsible for all the world's ills, in what world does that make it ok for Syria's army to go around killing unarmed civilians in massive numbers????????

I'm sorry you feel that way. I find it really disgusting you have to make me into something I'm not so you can attack me. I didn't say anything about killing unarmed civilians. The truth is we don't know who is killing the civilians. And for you to get so emotionally invested in it is foolish. BTW The Muslim brotherhood was started by British Intelligence. When you own both sides of the conflict, you always win.
I don't hate America, but I do hate the power elite that use the US government to be economic hit-men all around the world. Don't be fooled. That is exactly what is going on in North Africa/Middle East.


The truth is we don't know who is killing the civilians.

That IS disgusting. We do know who is killing them. The refugees that have succeeded in fleeing to Turkey are telling us it was Assad's troops killing them. The SAME Assad that kicked out all journalists that didn't work directly for him. Defectors who've fled to Turkey have similarly reported witnessing first hand that Assad's secret service executed Syrian soldiers that refused orders to fire upon unarmed civilians.

We KNOW who is killing who. Your refusal to acknowledge it is sick.

>> ^marbles:

>> ^bcglorf:
I think there is a lot of grieved and disgruntled young Arab people who want freedom who are being manipulated and used by geopolitical forces outside their country.
You are insulting and demeaning those young Arab people. Who is using who among the Libyan rebels? As much as the UN is using the rebels, the rebels are equally using the UN sanctioned air support.
Much akin the the Kurd's while Saddam still ruled(presumably what you consider the good old days). As much as America used them to undermine Saddam, the Kurds equally used America's support to.... what for it.... undermine Saddam.
When two groups have the same goal and work together to achieve it, it is NOT the same as the smaller group being some helpless proxy puppet of the larger.
Let's be more open here Marbles, if the people of Iran and Syria actually DO want regime change, do you still vehemently oppose that happening solely because America shares that goal and offers assistance?

Yeah, much akin to the Kurds. Where did that get them? We encouraged them to support us in Desert Storm and then let hundreds of thousands get slaughtered after we pulled out. Saddam was our puppet. WE DID THAT. We armed Saddam with chemical weapons to fight Iran. We told Saddam to invade Kuwait after Kuwait was slant drilling and stealing oil. We told Saddam we would back him up. And then we get on our high horse and bitch slap Saddam around. WTF It's all bullshit, it always has been.
So now we're in Libya on a humanitarian mission? We're bombing civilians in Tripoli for humanitarian purposes? The groups that we're "working together" with in Libya is al-Qaeda linked rebels. Libya was a world leader in Al Qaeda suicide bomber recruitment during the Iraq war and North-eastern Libya has one of the greatest concentrations of jihadi terrorists anywhere in the world. Obama's humanitarian mission to protect "civilians" is a complete farce. He's aiding a rebel force of jihadi terrorists, the same terrorists that were killing US troops in Iraq.


Your a piece of work. You understand nothing of the regions actual history. Instead, you've invented a fantasy built upon every single shred of anti-american propaganda being true and every shred of anything decent being said about them by anyone is utterly and blatantly false.

Go try following Al-Jazeera for awhile, you need some pro-western grounding to the perspective you've invented for yourself. I don't say that in jest either, I follow Al Jazeera more closely than any other news source, and the 'facts' you believe are 100% at odds and in contradiction to Al Jazeera's reporting on the region's activity.

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^marbles:
>> ^bcglorf:
I think there is a lot of grieved and disgruntled young Arab people who want freedom who are being manipulated and used by geopolitical forces outside their country.
You are insulting and demeaning those young Arab people. Who is using who among the Libyan rebels? As much as the UN is using the rebels, the rebels are equally using the UN sanctioned air support.
Much akin the the Kurd's while Saddam still ruled(presumably what you consider the good old days). As much as America used them to undermine Saddam, the Kurds equally used America's support to.... what for it.... undermine Saddam.
When two groups have the same goal and work together to achieve it, it is NOT the same as the smaller group being some helpless proxy puppet of the larger.
Let's be more open here Marbles, if the people of Iran and Syria actually DO want regime change, do you still vehemently oppose that happening solely because America shares that goal and offers assistance?

Yeah, much akin to the Kurds. Where did that get them? We encouraged them to support us in Desert Storm and then let hundreds of thousands get slaughtered after we pulled out. Saddam was our puppet. WE DID THAT. We armed Saddam with chemical weapons to fight Iran. We told Saddam to invade Kuwait after Kuwait was slant drilling and stealing oil. We told Saddam we would back him up. And then we get on our high horse and bitch slap Saddam around. WTF It's all bullshit, it always has been.
So now we're in Libya on a humanitarian mission? We're bombing civilians in Tripoli for humanitarian purposes? The groups that we're "working together" with in Libya is al-Qaeda linked rebels. Libya was a world leader in Al Qaeda suicide bomber recruitment during the Iraq war and North-eastern Libya has one of the greatest concentrations of jihadi terrorists anywhere in the world. Obama's humanitarian mission to protect "civilians" is a complete farce. He's aiding a rebel force of jihadi terrorists, the same terrorists that were killing US troops in Iraq.

That IS disgusting. We do know who is killing them. The refugees that have succeeded in fleeing to Turkey are telling us it was Assad's troops killing them. The SAME Assad that kicked out all journalists that didn't work directly for him. Defectors who've fled to Turkey have similarly reported witnessing first hand that Assad's secret service executed Syrian soldiers that refused orders to fire upon unarmed civilians.
We KNOW who is killing who. Your refusal to acknowledge it is sick.
---------

Your a piece of work. You understand nothing of the regions actual history. Instead, you've invented a fantasy built upon every single shred of anti-american propaganda being true and every shred of anything decent being said about them by anyone is utterly and blatantly false.
Go try following Al-Jazeera for awhile, you need some pro-western grounding to the perspective you've invented for yourself. I don't say that in jest either, I follow Al Jazeera more closely than any other news source, and the 'facts' you believe are 100% at odds and in contradiction to Al Jazeera's reporting on the region's activity.


Sorry, your support for foreign-funded sedition is disgusting. Of course they're blaming Assad, that's what foreign-funded activists are paid to say.

BTW, Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar, the same government sending weapons to Libya's Benghazi rebels (al-Qeada) which is in direct violation of their own contrived UN Security resolution in 1973.

More anti-American propaganda:

'CNN Arabic' Poll Grants Assad 'Personality of the Year 2009' Title
The readers of the website CNNArabic.com chose Syrian President Bashar Assad as the "Personality of the Year 2009" with a 67% of total votes after winning 20,687 votes out of 30,679.
CNN Arabic considered that the improvement of Syrian-Lebanese relations and the recent visit of Lebanon's PM Saad Hariri to Syria helped in making Assad a key player in the region.

The website added that at the end of the year, Assad reaped the fruits he had sown in its beginning. It said that Assad's participation in Doha's emergency summit of the Arab League during the Gaza War helped in boosting his popularity.

/------------------

Could it be that Assad was too popular for his own good?

Of course they're blaming Assad, that's what foreign-funded activists are paid to say.

BTW, Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar

As I guessed, you consider even Al Jazeera to be a right wing funded anti-arab propaganda machine...

You are insane.

For the sane people, it's Al Jazeera interviewing Syrian refugees in Turkey and reporting that Al-Assad's forces are deliberately and systematically killing unarmed protesters. Your insistent denial of this and refusal to acknowledge it is beyond sick, it's actively harmful. It's people like you that are the paid tools and sycophants of the worst murderous dictators in the world today.

>> ^bcglorf:

Of course they're blaming Assad, that's what foreign-funded activists are paid to say.
BTW, Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar
As I guessed, you consider even Al Jazeera to be a right wing funded anti-arab propaganda machine...
You are insane.
For the sane people, it's Al Jazeera interviewing Syrian refugees in Turkey and reporting that Al-Assad's forces are deliberately and systematically killing unarmed protesters. Your insistent denial of this and refusal to acknowledge it is beyond sick, it's actively harmful. It's people like you that are the paid tools and sycophants of the worst murderous dictators in the world today.


Instead of trying to characterize me into something you don't like and attacking me, try attacking my argument.

>> ^marbles:

>> ^bcglorf:
Of course they're blaming Assad, that's what foreign-funded activists are paid to say.
BTW, Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar
As I guessed, you consider even Al Jazeera to be a right wing funded anti-arab propaganda machine...
You are insane.
For the sane people, it's Al Jazeera interviewing Syrian refugees in Turkey and reporting that Al-Assad's forces are deliberately and systematically killing unarmed protesters. Your insistent denial of this and refusal to acknowledge it is beyond sick, it's actively harmful. It's people like you that are the paid tools and sycophants of the worst murderous dictators in the world today.

Instead of trying to characterize me into something you don't like and attacking me, try attacking my argument.


You dismiss everything from CNN, BBC and citizen journalism all as pro American fabrications. Fine.
You dismiss everything from Al Jazeera as American funded propaganda. Crazy, but if you like tinfoil hats that's your choice.
You ACCEPT everything from Bashir Al-Assad's regime's media outlets as truth...

The above is the characterization you've painted for yourself, and it's infinitely worse than anything I could try and project onto you.

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^marbles:
>> ^bcglorf:
Of course they're blaming Assad, that's what foreign-funded activists are paid to say.
BTW, Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar
As I guessed, you consider even Al Jazeera to be a right wing funded anti-arab propaganda machine...
You are insane.
For the sane people, it's Al Jazeera interviewing Syrian refugees in Turkey and reporting that Al-Assad's forces are deliberately and systematically killing unarmed protesters. Your insistent denial of this and refusal to acknowledge it is beyond sick, it's actively harmful. It's people like you that are the paid tools and sycophants of the worst murderous dictators in the world today.

Instead of trying to characterize me into something you don't like and attacking me, try attacking my argument.

You dismiss everything from CNN, BBC and citizen journalism all as pro American fabrications. Fine.
You dismiss everything from Al Jazeera as American funded propaganda. Crazy, but if you like tinfoil hats that's your choice.
You ACCEPT everything from Bashir Al-Assad's regime's media outlets as truth...
The above is the characterization you've painted for yourself, and it's infinitely worse than anything I could try and project onto you.


Please provide a citation for any and all of your claims if you wish to be taken seriously.

>> ^marbles:

>> ^bcglorf:
>> ^marbles:
>> ^bcglorf:
Of course they're blaming Assad, that's what foreign-funded activists are paid to say.
BTW, Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar
As I guessed, you consider even Al Jazeera to be a right wing funded anti-arab propaganda machine...
You are insane.
For the sane people, it's Al Jazeera interviewing Syrian refugees in Turkey and reporting that Al-Assad's forces are deliberately and systematically killing unarmed protesters. Your insistent denial of this and refusal to acknowledge it is beyond sick, it's actively harmful. It's people like you that are the paid tools and sycophants of the worst murderous dictators in the world today.

Instead of trying to characterize me into something you don't like and attacking me, try attacking my argument.

You dismiss everything from CNN, BBC and citizen journalism all as pro American fabrications. Fine.
You dismiss everything from Al Jazeera as American funded propaganda. Crazy, but if you like tinfoil hats that's your choice.
You ACCEPT everything from Bashir Al-Assad's regime's media outlets as truth...
The above is the characterization you've painted for yourself, and it's infinitely worse than anything I could try and project onto you.

Please provide a citation for any and all of your claims if you wish to be taken seriously.


It seems silly, the link is to the page you are reading now!

Here's the quotes for the benefit of others so there's no risk of anyone falling for your foolishness.

1. I claimed You dismiss everything from CNN, BBC and citizen journalism all as pro American fabrications.
You've said the following to support this claim:
Unbiased? So no mainstream news media then? Which covers the CNN and BBC claim.
Of course they're blaming Assad, that's what foreign-funded activists are paid to say. Which covers the citizen journalism side.

2.I claimed You dismiss everything from Al Jazeera as American funded propaganda.
You've said the following to support this claim:
Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar, the same government sending weapons to Libya's Benghazi rebels (al-Qeada) Seems that Al Jazeera is sinful by association with Qatar, which is supporting the Benghazi rebels like a good American puppet. For those new to this, the Al Qaeda claim is not only taking Gadhafi at his word, it is also stated in the belief that America or it's evil puppet masters support Al Qaeda, making Qatar's support of Al Qaeda proof it's all still part of the conspiracy.
Suffice it to say, you've soundly rejected Al Jazeera as biased against the Syrian public and part of some foreign sourced insurrection there.

3.My last claim was You ACCEPT everything from Bashir Al-Assad's regime's media outlets as truth.
You've said the following to support this claim:
Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure they kicked out all foreigners. Can't really blame them when Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.

And the best gem of them all:
The truth is we don't know who is killing the civilians.

All you seem to know is that Assad is the one making sure everyone is silenced and that no information gets out. How convenient you can then throw up your hands and say we just don't know who is killing who.

The truth is survivors and defectors that escape are all telling the same story, Assad's men are killing unarmed civilians and are shooting any soldiers refusing to fire on the unarmed civilians as well.

>> ^bcglorf: It seems silly, the link is to the page you are reading now!
Here's the quotes for the benefit of others so there's no risk of anyone falling for your foolishness.
1. I claimed You dismiss everything from CNN, BBC and citizen journalism all as pro American fabrications.
You've said the following to support this claim:
Unbiased? So no mainstream news media then? Which covers the CNN and BBC claim.
Of course they're blaming Assad, that's what foreign-funded activists are paid to say. Which covers the citizen journalism side.
2.I claimed You dismiss everything from Al Jazeera as American funded propaganda.
You've said the following to support this claim:
Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar, the same government sending weapons to Libya's Benghazi rebels (al-Qeada) Seems that Al Jazeera is sinful by association with Qatar, which is supporting the Benghazi rebels like a good American puppet. For those new to this, the Al Qaeda claim is not only taking Gadhafi at his word, it is also stated in the belief that America or it's evil puppet masters support Al Qaeda, making Qatar's support of Al Qaeda proof it's all still part of the conspiracy.
Suffice it to say, you've soundly rejected Al Jazeera as biased against the Syrian public and part of some foreign sourced insurrection there.
3.My last claim was You ACCEPT everything from Bashir Al-Assad's regime's media outlets as truth.
You've said the following to support this claim:
Well to be fair, I'm pretty sure they kicked out all foreigners. Can't really blame them when Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.
And the best gem of them all:
The truth is we don't know who is killing the civilians.
All you seem to know is that Assad is the one making sure everyone is silenced and that no information gets out. How convenient you can then throw up your hands and say we just don't know who is killing who.
The truth is survivors and defectors that escape are all telling the same story, Assad's men are killing unarmed civilians and are shooting any soldiers refusing to fire on the unarmed civilians as well.




I didn't dismiss anything. Earlier in the thread, I made a dig at mainstream media in general when ali wanted an "unbiased" source. I've posted links from Reuters, Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, so you're not making any fucking sense.
And as far as "Assad's regime's media outlets", I have no idea what you're talking about.

In wars and armed conflicts you never know all the facts. You shouldn't accept any report from any news source at face value unless you can corroborate it with other sources. Even then you're likely only getting part of the truth. Al Jazerra repeatably makes disclaimers in this video that they don't know the facts.

Given the circumstances and Assad's short history, I don't buy that he's ordering his army to open fire on civilians. Al Jazerra nearly always has a pro-Western spin and given the fact that Qatar is openly supporting NATO in Libya, they are clearly going to be biased when reporting on Syria. There's little credibility to anything they choose to broadcast on the subject.

There was a story about a month ago or so, where the Syrian army was ambushed in one city and something like 120 army servicemen killed. Did unarmed civilians do that? I also remember first hearing about civilians being killed by snipers that were part of Assad's "secret police". So I guess it could be Assad's men, but why would he use covert police AND the military? Doesn't make any sense. The more likely scenario is that foreign agents dressed as Assad's security force are opening fire on civilians. They're probably even doing it behind the backs of the activists they recruited and organized to protest.

But even if it is Assad that's gunning down civilians, it's not our fight. It's an internal conflict. Aiding one side or the other only brings about wider conflict with more fighting and more death.

Are these also Assad's forces shooting indiscriminately from inside this car?

Al Jazerra nearly always has a pro-Western spin
Isn't that reaffirming my point in different wording?

2.I claimed You dismiss everything from Al Jazeera as American funded propaganda.

If you think I'm misrepresenting you with that point, surely you can't object if I claim you believe that Al Jazerra nearly always has a pro-Western spin? I don't think my second point is much altered by your rephrasing:

2(v2):You claim Al Jazerra nearly always has a pro-Western spin.

As to point 1, perhaps you want me to reword it as well?

1(v2): You dismiss all claims regarding Syria's current events from the mainstream media and citizen journalists?

You, once again, seem to have reiterated your support of this position with this: Given the circumstances and Assad's short history, I don't buy that he's ordering his army to open fire on civilians. One of the most consistently reported facts from all mainstream media and citizen journalists is Assad's forces killing unarmed peaceful civilians.

Which brings us to number 3,

3(v2): You accept Assad's version of current events within Syria.
You again have reiterated your support of this:
-I don't buy that he's ordering his army to open fire on civilians. This is Assad's story, but EVERYONE outside his regime that anyone has ever spoken to from any media outlet but Assad's own has refuted it.

-There was a story about a month ago or so, where the Syrian army was ambushed in one city and something like 120 army servicemen killed. Did unarmed civilians do that? This is also Assad's story, not verified by anyone outside his regime. The story from refugees and defectors is unanimous as reported by ALL other media, that those 120 soldiers were shot by Assad's secret police for refusing orders to fire upon unarmed protesters.

-The more likely scenario is that foreign agents dressed as Assad's security force are opening fire on civilians. Once again, this explanation isn't being posed by anyone outside Assad's regime. ALL media outlets talking to refugees and defectors are well agreed that the shooters were working on Assad's orders and that foreign agents have NO role in the uprising.

Please, if I've misrepresented what you've said clear things up. I've quoted you extensively and in good context and it is overwhelmingly clear that the story you favor is the one put forward by Assad's regime, in the face of the fact that all other media outlets, Al Jazeera included, and all refugees and defectors unanimously claim otherwise.

Are you fuckin slow or something?

I've made no claims one way or the other. YOU HAVE. AND YOU HAVE NO LEGITIMATE EVIDENCE.

IT'S A MOOT POINT ANYWAY. SO WHY DO YOU INSIST ON REPEATING THE SAME BULLSHIT OVER AND OVER?

YOU ARE GOING TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE AND IGNORE EVERY ARGUMENT I'VE MADE.

SO IF YOU HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO SAY, THEN FUCK OFF!

>> ^marbles:

Are you fuckin slow or something?
I've made no claims one way or the other. YOU HAVE. AND YOU HAVE NO LEGITIMATE EVIDENCE.
IT'S A MOOT POINT ANYWAY. SO WHY DO YOU INSIST ON REPEATING THE SAME BULLSHIT OVER AND OVER?
YOU ARE GOING TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE AND IGNORE EVERY ARGUMENT I'VE MADE.
SO IF YOU HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO SAY, THEN FUCK OFF!


Well said. You have made claims though:
1:Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.
2:The truth is we don't know who is killing the civilians.
3:Yeah, much akin to the Kurds. Where did that get them? We encouraged them to support us in Desert Storm and then let hundreds of thousands get slaughtered after we pulled out.
4:The groups that we're "working together" with in Libya is al-Qaeda linked rebels.
5:North-eastern Libya has one of the greatest concentrations of jihadi terrorists anywhere in the world.
6:Al Jazerra nearly always has a pro-Western spin
7:the Syrian army was ambushed in one city and something like 120 army servicemen killed.

You've made plenty of claims, all of them in favor of the stories given by Gadhafi and Bashir Al-Assad. Save for number 3 where you confuse the Iraqi Kurds with the Iraqi Shia. You've already made clear that even Al Jazeera is a pro-western entity, and that eye witness testimony is bought by foreign money, so it there can not exist any evidence you would deem credible, save the apparent exception of stories provided by the State run media of Libya and Syria...

If you dislike what you see in this, then I'd recommend changing yourself since the reflection is deadly accurate.

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^marbles:
Are you fuckin slow or something?
I've made no claims one way or the other. YOU HAVE. AND YOU HAVE NO LEGITIMATE EVIDENCE.
IT'S A MOOT POINT ANYWAY. SO WHY DO YOU INSIST ON REPEATING THE SAME BULLSHIT OVER AND OVER?
YOU ARE GOING TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE AND IGNORE EVERY ARGUMENT I'VE MADE.
SO IF YOU HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO SAY, THEN FUCK OFF!

Well said. You have made claims though:
1:Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.
2:The truth is we don't know who is killing the civilians.
3:Yeah, much akin to the Kurds. Where did that get them? We encouraged them to support us in Desert Storm and then let hundreds of thousands get slaughtered after we pulled out.
4:The groups that we're "working together" with in Libya is al-Qaeda linked rebels.
5:North-eastern Libya has one of the greatest concentrations of jihadi terrorists anywhere in the world.
6:Al Jazerra nearly always has a pro-Western spin
7:the Syrian army was ambushed in one city and something like 120 army servicemen killed.
You've made plenty of claims, all of them in favor of the stories given by Gadhafi and Bashir Al-Assad. Save for number 3 where you confuse the Iraqi Kurds with the Iraqi Shia. You've already made clear that even Al Jazeera is a pro-western entity, and that eye witness testimony is bought by foreign money, so it there can not exist any evidence you would deem credible, save the apparent exception of stories provided by the State run media of Libya and Syria...
If you dislike what you see in this, then I'd recommend changing yourself since the reflection is deadly accurate.


There you go being a moron troll again. I've made no claims on whether or not Assad is responsible for killing civilians. YOU HAVE. YOU CHERRY PICK WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE AND IGNORE THE REST. Even your sources say they don't know.
Unlike you, everything I said is backed up with actual substance.

1. Arab Spring. Confirmed by multiple sources - sponsored by foreign groups (multiple links in this thread)
2. Al Jazerra even admits that.
3. From Google result:In the aftermath of Operation Desert Storm, the United States encouraged Kurds and Shiites to rebel against Hussein's regime--then withdrew and refused to support them, leaving an unknown number to be slaughtered. At one point, Hussein's regime killed as many as 2,000 suspected Kurdish rebels every day. Some two million Kurds hazarded the dangerous trek through the mountains to Iran and Turkey, hundreds of thousands dying in the process.
4. here and here
5. 2007 West Point Study
6. Already established Qatar support for NATO.
I never claimed number 7. Irrelevant anyway.

Also I'm done arguing with morons. If you can't pull your head out of your ass long enough to comprehend what you are reading, then I'm wasting my time. I've given you the information, it's up to you whether you unlock your mind.

Assad's campaign of murder and repression continues:

His force's storm yet another border town

His forces shoot and kill more people attending rallies

His forces are caught on camera planting weapons and ammo on the unarmed civilians they've shot

All from Al Jazeera. I supposed Al Jazeera really is just a pro-western puppet promoting anti-Syrian propaganda...

And today from Al Jazeera:
'Death squads' on streets of Homs

a Homs resident said, "There are troops and armoured vehicles in every neighbourhood. The irregular forces with them are death squads.

"They have been firing indiscriminately since dawn with rifles and machine guns. No one can leave their homes."

It's still continuing, as Al Jazeera reports that Syrian forces 'surround Damascus suburb'.

This should not be ignored or denied.

And today, there is yet more evidence...

Al Jazeera is reporting 'Bodies on the streets' in Homs crackdown.

I'm gonna be gone for the weekend now, but just so there's no doubt, more people were killed again today by Bashir Al-Assad's forces:

Protesters killed amid huge Syria protests

I think it's safe to conclude that the evidence that Assad is murdering civilians on a daily basis is pretty much overwhelming and undeniable.

*discuss POV death

This video is being sent to Sift Talk for discussion - discuss requested by kulpims.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

My opinion is that this not snuff, an erratic jerky camera - there was no death to see whatsoever. Possibly the guy at the end in the street, but even he may have been wounded. Not definitive snuff in my opinion but happy to discuss it here.

*return then

Returning this video from Sift Talk - return requested by kulpims.